A View to A Kill - Underrated?

168101112

Comments

  • Posts: 11,189
    I like the Serra score and consider it an experiment with more decent, memorable cues than not. While I wouldn't put it above Barry's AVTAK score it is without question superior to SP's utterly forgetful SF recycle.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The model work was done by Derek Meddings. Part of me wonders if it was MEANT to look a bit dated.

    A lot of the model work is good though. The antenna blowing up at the end, the train crashing into the tank and Seveneya exploding. As for bad stunt work I must disagree. Natalya surrounded by exploding computers and terminals is brilliantly done. I agree that some of the doubling could have been concealed better in other scenes, but then again you can't then go on to praise AVTAK.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The model work was done by Derek Meddings. Part of me wonders if it was MEANT to look a bit dated.

    A lot of the model work is good though. The antenna blowing up at the end, the train crashing into the tank and Seveneya exploding. As for bad stunt work I must disagree. Natalya surrounded by exploding computers and terminals is brilliantly done. I agree that some of the doubling could have been concealed better in other scenes, but then again you can't then go on to praise AVTAK.
    I agree. It's a bit inconsistent but some of the model work is indeed superb. The Natalya Severnaya sequence is definitely a highlight (I'll always remember the dive in the trailers).
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd take the PTS of GE over the entirety of SP. Same goes for the Ferrari/Aston sequence. The film is full of iconic moments. The score is not for everyone, but I am one who likes Serra's originality and creativity very much, and wish he had continued as composer (as long as he didn't sing again). I agree that it's quite dated now in places, but I'd argue that this is part of its charm. It was actually dated (model work wise) in 1995, but that didn't hurt it then because the film has that energy and drive. It's bursting with charisma.

    The same can't be said of the latest effort, at least in my opinion. One of the most dull & forgettable films put out by EON, along with the disgraceful TWINE. I'd go so far as to call it potentially another reboot necessitator.

    I'm neither here nor there on AVTAK. It's my least favourite Rog film, but it has its moments.

    The GE PTS is a contender for worst in the series. Bond appears hanging upside down in a toilet and exits with the greatest action/'stunt' offence to the Bond legacy we've seen prior to DAD's kite-surfing shenanigans.

    Have to say the Ferrari/Aston chase is hands down the worst car related sequence in the entire series, not least because of the abysmal Serra score and Brosnan's Terry Thomas-esque cravat - he might as well have gone the whole hog and grown the tooth pick moustache.

    Bond reduced to the level of Sunday afternoon satire. Anybody could have done it better.

    The film's a calamitous misstep from start to finish. Immeasurably worse than SP and AVTAK on every conceivable level. Like watching the team behind The Bold and the Beautiful takeover the series - except GE is less slick. Only Dalton could have perhaps redeemed it. Slightly.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I may have been one of the handful of fans who wasn't bowled over by GE in 1995. Part of it may have been my support of Dalton, who I am still a big fan of and all over the overblown Brosnan praise, all the best Bond since Connery talk. I don't disagree he was the right actor at that time, but not much beyond.

    From the stiff gunbarrel it got off to an underwhelming start. The bungee stunt was one of the best in the series, but the flying into the plane kinda sapped that goodwill. It was just too much.

    For all the new era talk, so much is in familiar territory and sort of safe - Xenia is fun, but basically another take on Fiona and Fatima. More destructive space hardware as a threat. The tank sequence is like an outtake from The Blues Brothers and just a bunch of destruction.

    The cast was good, but the writing or something was lacking. People love Zukovsky, who doesn't strike me as ever being a threat, more of a bumbler. And a previous Bond villain now a quirky ally. Jimbo, really?

    The fight at the end was one of the best in years. But I left GE happy Bond was back, but not a lot more. My feeling toward the film has been consistent to this day.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I don't see ANYTHING wrong with Brosnan's opening line or the fact that the intro was in a toilet.

    The worst car sequence is either DAF (poorly edited and little more than police cars banging into each other) or AVTAK (unexcitung with an embarrassingly OTT Frenchman and poorly directed extras).

    Give me the Aston/Ferrari chase any day over those two.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd take the PTS of GE over the entirety of SP. Same goes for the Ferrari/Aston sequence. The film is full of iconic moments. The score is not for everyone, but I am one who likes Serra's originality and creativity very much, and wish he had continued as composer (as long as he didn't sing again). I agree that it's quite dated now in places, but I'd argue that this is part of its charm. It was actually dated (model work wise) in 1995, but that didn't hurt it then because the film has that energy and drive. It's bursting with charisma.

    The same can't be said of the latest effort, at least in my opinion. One of the most dull & forgettable films put out by EON, along with the disgraceful TWINE. I'd go so far as to call it potentially another reboot necessitator.

    I'm neither here nor there on AVTAK. It's my least favourite Rog film, but it has its moments.

    The GE PTS is a contender for worst in the series. Bond appears hanging upside down in a toilet and exits with the greatest action/'stunt' offence to the Bond legacy we've seen prior to DAD's kite-surfing shenanigans.
    His intro was one of the best imho. That was the Contra Dam jump as far as I was concerned, and not the unfortunate upside down toilet thing which followed. Irrespective of how one feels about that, the exchange with 006 is very memorable, as is the Goldeneye Overture which accompanies the proceedings. Brosnan himself is rather cool in the PTS (thankfully sporting a restrained pain face when he thinks Alec has been shot dead). Moreover, it has Gottfried John! How can anyone complain about that?
    Getafix wrote: »
    Have to say the Ferrari/Aston chase is hands down the worst car related sequence in the entire series, not least because of the abysmal Serra score and Brosnan's Terry Thomas-esque cravat - he might as well have gone the whole hog and grown the tooth pick moustache.
    No, I'm afraid that award must go to the SP snoozefest that takes place on the empty streets of Rome. At least when Brosnan is exchanging complimentary (and reciprocated) glances at nearby drivers he's doing it to a babe like Famke, and not some thuggish bloke who looks like a wrestler. Brosnan's cravat may have been a deliberate throwback to the legendary Grant in Monaco in To Catch A Thief. I thought it was a nice touch and even if one takes issue with his sartorial choices it's surely a minor offense, at least in comparison to nighttime conversations about 'getting a life' with MP as she visits her fridge.
    Getafix wrote: »
    The film's a calamitous misstep from start to finish. Immeasurably worse than SP and AVTAK on every conceivable level.
    I believe most would disagree with you, which affords me some hope for the future of humanity.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited June 2017 Posts: 1,711
    The only Bond film I always watch in German is OHMSS. Because it is actually better that way, I love Diana Rigg and always watch The Avengers in English but the German voice actress for her is wonderful.

    I watch the Craig Bonds in German more than I watch them in English. Just because Craig has not much of distinctive voice and his German voice actor is great.

    Silva in German is slightly less annoying I must say, they tone down the silliness quite a bit, luckily.

    Waltz of course is way better in German as it is his first language. But he is great in English as well.

    As for Connery, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan. Always English, always.

    I'm bilingual anyway.

    Ugh. If you're bilingual, don't watched dubbed films! It's literally no different than if they used CGI to change Daniel Craig's face. You're not even really watching the movie....!

    I live in German and am familiar with the dubbing done here, and while it's done here better than in many other places, it's all still quite terrible. The voice actors (who have no real involvement with the film) clearly just look at the character and go with the most blandly stereotypical voice they can come up with for it. I was especially appalled at Bane in The Dark Knight Rises. Tom Hardy did something unique with the character, and in the dub, well, it's a "big tough guy" voice....


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I find the desert chase in DAF to be rather weak. Bond casually driving through the desert as every single person in pursuit crashes via their own actions.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I find the desert chase in DAF to be rather weak. Bond casually driving through the desert as every single person in pursuit crashes via their own actions.

    Basically the same as the Las Vegas strip chase.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I find the desert chase in DAF to be rather weak. Bond casually driving through the desert as every single person in pursuit crashes via their own actions.

    Basically the same as the Las Vegas strip chase.

    At least Bond performs a few maneuvers and last-second turns to take out the cops in pursuit. He literally does nothing but cooly inch through the desert as the cars and ATV-like vehicles fly around and crash on their own.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I find the desert chase in DAF to be rather weak. Bond casually driving through the desert as every single person in pursuit crashes via their own actions.

    It's almost funny how shit it is. I actually think it sums up DAF quite well. There's so little attempt to make it even slightly energetic or intriguing and it's so brazenly half baked that you have to revel in the audacity of it all.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    AVTAK is growing on me fast. Grace Jones is quite responsible for that too.

    I have been reading up on Grace Jones and it seems she was quite the icon in the mid 80s with some real big singles in the charts like Slave To The Rhythm which further helped AVTAK to become very successful on the home media market.

    She's also an icon of fashion and art even in that period of time with music promo videos that made "history" on the MTV channels and such.

    The woman has fascinated me from the get-go when I first saw AVTAK in Spring 2017.
    Now I'm delving deeply into her treasures ha ha....musically ;)

    I wonder how any of you Europeans experienced 1985 in regard to AVTAK and Grace Jones. She is very prominent on some poster arts as well for the film.

    Not sure how well known she was in the US. In the German language countries she was huge apparently, and in France a real superstar even.
  • Posts: 1,917
    AVTAK is growing on me fast. Grace Jones is quite responsible for that too.

    I have been reading up on Grace Jones and it seems she was quite the icon in the mid 80s with some real big singles in the charts like Slave To The Rhythm which further helped AVTAK to become very successful on the home media market.

    She's also an icon of fashion and art even in that period of time with music promo videos that made "history" on the MTV channels and such.

    The woman has fascinated me from the get-go when I first saw AVTAK in Spring 2017.
    Now I'm delving deeply into her treasures ha ha....musically ;)

    I wonder how any of you Europeans experienced 1985 in regard to AVTAK and Grace Jones. She is very prominent on some poster arts as well for the film.

    Not sure how well known she was in the US. In the German language countries she was huge apparently, and in France a real superstar even.

    I'm not sure Grace Jones ever charted any of her songs here in the U.S. She was more known as an actress in films like "Conan the Destroyer" and for popping up on scooter commercials on MTV, where she may have had some of her music videos played, but they didn't cross over to the mainstream. It was more of her personality and look than her music.

    Duran Duran on the other hand did have a huge impact. I'd heard some of their fans actually went to AVTAK expecting them to be in it or just to hear their music.
  • Posts: 12,473
    For me, AVTAK is better than: DAF, TMWTGG, MR, TWINE, DAD, and SP. I’ve seen it ranked below those many times, and even I used to. I definitely have a new appreciation for it. Still not one of the stronger entries, but lots to like.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I have been reading up on Grace Jones and it seems she was quite the icon in the mid 80s with some real big singles in the charts like Slave To The Rhythm which further helped AVTAK to become very successful on the home media market.

    She's also an icon of fashion and art even in that period of time with music promo videos that made "history" on the MTV channels and such.
    I don't know how popular she was back then but I've heard some of her songs and they aren't bad. Pull Up To The Bumper has a seriously funky groove. Love Is The Drug, My Jamaican Guy (the distinctive opening riff was famously sampled by LL Cool J for Doin' it), Private Life (cover of Pretenders song) & Slave To The Rhythm are decent. Grace seems like she was pretty avant-garde and cool in her prime.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It's Christopher Walken easily that draws me back to AVTAK.
    He owns EVERY scene he is in.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I also like that the villains get more screen time. I actually always like it when Bond is not in the focus of every little scene like in SP.
  • Posts: 19,339
    GBF wrote: »
    I also like that the villains get more screen time. I actually always like it when Bond is not in the focus of every little scene like in SP.

    True.
    When Bond escapes the sunken Rolls Royce he is not back in it for about 15mins I think.,it's all focussed on Zorin.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 19,339
    GBF wrote: »
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.

    Exactly...atm its all focussed on Bond and the villains are almost a side-show to him and the Scooby Gang.
    It's getting boring tbh.
    Every Bond film used to be different,thats why they are so watchable still,and always will be,the variety of each mission/film.

    But lately its the same 'Bond focus' in every film....boring.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.

    Exactly...atm its all focussed on Bond and the villains are almost a side-show to him and the Scooby Gang.
    It's getting boring tbh.
    Every Bond film used to be different,thats why they are so watchable still,and always will be,the variety of each mission/film.

    But lately its the same 'Bond focus' in every film....boring.

    Very good observation. Imagine how much better SP could have been if we had used all that screen time dedicated to the Scooby gang to focus on Blofeld and his plot.

    They always say they go into a Bond film trying to make another FRWL so why didn't they see that all that time devoted to the villains and they're scheme is what made FRWL a more intriguing film.

    (And you note FRWL's Scooby gang get about 5 mins of screentime in total.)
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 11,189
    Frankly I struggle with AVTAK these days.

    It was a film I enjoyed a fair bit as a child and I always had a certain level of sentiment towards it due to it being in 1985 - the year I was born.

    Now though there’s a “going through the motions” feeling towards it that is hard to escape and becomes even more apparent as time goes by. Truthfully a lot of it just feels a bit dull. At its worst film resorts to tired embarrassing slapstick that, as the likes of Birdleson have said, were dated in 1985.

    I like the score, I like Walken hamming it up and I like Moore’s “reluctant hero” vibe in some scenes (rescuing Stacey from City Hall and leading Mayday in the mine at the end). But all in all Moore was certainly at this point a caracature a few steps above his character in Cannonball Run.

    I don’t think AVTAK is underrated. Roger himself didn’t seem to like it much either.

    People may hate MR but it holds up far better than AVTAK.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.

    Exactly...atm its all focussed on Bond and the villains are almost a side-show to him and the Scooby Gang.
    It's getting boring tbh.
    Every Bond film used to be different,thats why they are so watchable still,and always will be,the variety of each mission/film.

    But lately its the same 'Bond focus' in every film....boring.

    Very good observation. Imagine how much better SP could have been if we had used all that screen time dedicated to the Scooby gang to focus on Blofeld and his plot.

    They always say they go into a Bond film trying to make another FRWL so why didn't they see that all that time devoted to the villains and they're scheme is what made FRWL a more intriguing film.

    (And you note FRWL's Scooby gang get about 5 mins of screentime in total.)
    Do they really say that? If so, they've failed spectacularly for 50+ years because it remains my #1 Bond film.

    Agreed on giving the villains more screen time without Bond (or Team Scooby) in the frame. If they finally get back to it not being all about Bond and his internal demons and journey, perhaps that will happen again soon.

    It does amaze me how rewatchable the older films are. I've seen each so many times, but they never get boring and in some ways I enjoy them more now than I did when younger.

    EDIT: The last EON film which passes the rewatchability test for me (every viewing remains a treat) is GE.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.

    Exactly...atm its all focussed on Bond and the villains are almost a side-show to him and the Scooby Gang.
    It's getting boring tbh.
    Every Bond film used to be different,thats why they are so watchable still,and always will be,the variety of each mission/film.

    But lately its the same 'Bond focus' in every film....boring.

    Very good observation. Imagine how much better SP could have been if we had used all that screen time dedicated to the Scooby gang to focus on Blofeld and his plot.

    They always say they go into a Bond film trying to make another FRWL so why didn't they see that all that time devoted to the villains and they're scheme is what made FRWL a more intriguing film.

    (And you note FRWL's Scooby gang get about 5 mins of screentime in total.)
    Do they really say that? If so, they've failed spectacularly for 50+ years because it remains my #1 Bond film.

    Agreed on giving the villains more screen time without Bond (or Team Scooby) in the frame. If they finally get back to it not being all about Bond and his internal demons and journey, perhaps that will happen again soon.

    It does amaze me how rewatchable the older films are. I've seen each so many times, but they never get boring and in some ways I enjoy them more now than I did when younger.

    EDIT: The last EON film which passes the rewatchability test for me (every viewing remains a treat) is GE.

    Interestingly, GE also has a stretch early on when Bond is absent for some time (or at least it feels that way).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    That is what I like about some of the older films. Other character get more to do. Or let's say other characters matter at all. In the last films many of the side characters are extremely forgettable or they do not even have names.

    Exactly...atm its all focussed on Bond and the villains are almost a side-show to him and the Scooby Gang.
    It's getting boring tbh.
    Every Bond film used to be different,thats why they are so watchable still,and always will be,the variety of each mission/film.

    But lately its the same 'Bond focus' in every film....boring.

    Very good observation. Imagine how much better SP could have been if we had used all that screen time dedicated to the Scooby gang to focus on Blofeld and his plot.

    They always say they go into a Bond film trying to make another FRWL so why didn't they see that all that time devoted to the villains and they're scheme is what made FRWL a more intriguing film.

    (And you note FRWL's Scooby gang get about 5 mins of screentime in total.)
    Do they really say that? If so, they've failed spectacularly for 50+ years because it remains my #1 Bond film.

    Agreed on giving the villains more screen time without Bond (or Team Scooby) in the frame. If they finally get back to it not being all about Bond and his internal demons and journey, perhaps that will happen again soon.

    It does amaze me how rewatchable the older films are. I've seen each so many times, but they never get boring and in some ways I enjoy them more now than I did when younger.

    EDIT: The last EON film which passes the rewatchability test for me (every viewing remains a treat) is GE.

    Interestingly, GE also has a stretch early on when Bond is absent for some time (or at least it feels that way).
    That's a good point actually. It definitely feels that way and the film is better for it. It's a pre-P&W film (one of the last) and that may explain it. This is also perhaps why it always seems fresh to me when I revisit it these days, despite having viewed it several times of course. It's the last time 'formula' was executed well too.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited September 2018 Posts: 1,261
    It has its weak points ("California Girls", Bond having sex with 4 much younger women and being too old for the part), but overall I still like it. Just watched it again last night. I like John Barry's score, and also Duran Duran's title song. Sir Patrick Macnee and Sir Roger together on screen are a delight, you really see the really excellent on-screen chemistry between them, and that they were best friends in real life. And Christopher Walken as Zorin is one of the best villains in the franchise history. He is not just a ruthless villain, but probably the most psychopathic villain up to that point. When Mr Howe says "But that would mean I#Be..." Zorin, almost smiling, "Dead!" and shooting him. And when he guns down all his worker, clearly enjoying it, is a disturbing moment. One side-aspect: Dr. Mortner in the German dubbed version is a Polish communist, who made his genetic experiments for the Soviet Union. Not a former German concentration camp doctor à la Dr. Mengele, who makes his experiments with female concentration camp inmates. Apparently the German dubbing writers and directors thought, that in 1985 the German audience would have opposed to the villain being a result of such genetic experiments. In the first DIE HARD movie, Alan Rickman's Hans Gruber became an American by the name of Jack Gruber. They only changed that with DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANGE in 1995.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It has its weak points ("California Girls", Bond having sex with 4 much younger women and being too old for the part), but overall I still like it. Just watched it again last night. I like John Barry's score, and also Duran Duran's title song. Sir Patrick Macnee and Sir Roger together on screen are a delight, you really see the really excellent on-screen chemistry between them, and that they were best friends in real life. And Christopher Walken as Zorin is one of the best villains in the franchise history. He is not just a ruthless villain, but probably the most psychopathic villain up to that point. When Mr Howe says "But that would mean I#Be..." Zorin, almost smiling, "Dead!" and shooting him. And when he guns down all his worker, clearly enjoying it, is a disturbing moment. One side-aspect: Dr. Mortner in the German dubbed version is a Polish communist, who made his genetic experiments for the Soviet Union. Not a former German concentration camp doctor à la Dr. Mengele, who makes his experiments with female concentration camp inmates. Apparently the German dubbing writers and directors thought, that in 1985 the German audience would have opposed to the villain being a result of such genetic experiments. In the first DIE HARD movie, Alan Rickman's Hans Gruber became an American by the name of Jack Gruber. They only changed that with DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANGE in 1995.

    I never knew any of that,thanks matey !
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited January 2019 Posts: 1,889
    Must admit that A View To a Kill remains a decent Bond film having just watched it again. It's not even close to top-tier Bond, but it manages to stay entertaining throughout and imho makes the best use of the US we've seen before or since.

    Many of the common complaints I see about this movie don't irritate me. I have zero issue with Stacey: she's principled, learned, and can even outwit Bond if need be. Other things like the bumbling cop or stereotypical cop car derby are fine. Mayday and Bond sleeping together might be unnecessary to drive the plot forward, but it isn't 'wrong' in any sense of the word. And the scenes at the chateau are for the most part great - the banter/friendship between Moore and Macnee being one of the highlights. Then there's that wonderful confrontation with Zorin beside the Rolls-Royce. Great stuff.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AVTAK rose considerably in my esteem during my recent watch.
Sign In or Register to comment.