007: What would you have done differently?

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  • edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    bondsum wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    So TLD. I’d Ike to know @bondsum’s thoughts on Joe Don Baker in the film and whether he thinks Oliver Reed would have worked in an alternative universe.
    Not the same Oliver Reed of Castaway (1986) I certainly don't. no. True story: I was meant to do a photo shoot with Amanda Donohoe in the Seychelles where that particular movie was being shot. The plan was was for me to fly out after the shooting had begun. Trouble was Oliver got pissed one night, hurt himself badly, production was suspended and everyone was flown back home. The other bummer being it was my last few weeks at the company I was working for so by the time shooting resumed, I had already left so couldn't do it. So Grrr Oliver Reed. Thing is, I was looking forward to having a few beers with Ollie and cosying up with Amanda. Just think of the stories I could've told rather than this sad old tale.

    Haha. That’s a shame.

    I can understand why Reed was never even a consideration for Bond at that time. Presumably he’d have been too much of a liability.

    I just like the idea of Reed playing a mad military man going up against Bond
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited May 2018 Posts: 13,978
    Even if we set aside Ollie's infamous boozing and brawling, I still struggle to see him as Bond. He would have made a fine villain though. His calmy spoken voice, mixed with that intimidating frame.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    Even if we set aside Ollie's infamous boozing and brawling, I still struggle to see him as Bond. He would have made a fine villain though. His calmy spoken voice, mixed with that intimidating frame.

    I could also see him as someone like LeChiffe.

    An outwardly calm demeanour but something of a wildcat.
  • Posts: 787
    I'm a fan of Dalton, and of TLD. Saying that:

    -Kara grates on my nerves, fairly quickly. She just constantly seems so stupid, and James is frequently frustrated by her. For instance, during the climax in the cargo plane, he has to do charades to explain to her to "drive around the back of the plane!" He seems exasperated by having to do this, it pulls us out of the moment, and it casts her in a poor light too. It's no good. Re-write and re-cast her, please.

    -JD Baker doesn't really work for me - particularly his character but partly the actor. 'Ruthless arms dealer,' perhaps, but he simply feels too small-time for someone like Bond to worry about. He's the kind of guy Bond should brush aside without a second thought rather than a 'final villain.' I'm always annoyed by their final showdown, when Bond stupidly empties an entire magazine into what is clearly a bullet-proof shield (that covers only a small part of Baker's body anyway). Eliminate this character or re-write him into the sidelines, please.

    -As a general direction note, I once heard Dalton described as having a smile "like a mad Alsatian." This is true; direct and film him accordingly.

    -Bliss is a fine enough Moneypenny but is directed strangely here; she seems lingering, needy, nerdy . . . weird.

    -As was often the case with the Moore films, I think that most of the 'comedy' bits here are OK in isolation but do add up a bit too much. The cello case sledding, for instance, is fine with me but follows rather hard upon the comedy car chase. Removing one of or two gags here and there would help even out the tone, I think.

    -Leiter and his 'sidekicks' are oddly written here, and underwhelming. Rewrite or remove.

    -Krabbe is a great actor and his role is a tricky one - the doubling double who plays both the joker and the villain -so I'd say leave it in. But perhaps nuance things a bit more, give him some space in the time that's been saved by my other edits to flesh out the backstory or motivations a bit?

    -As for things to leave alone: the theme song is fine, the PTS is great, the counter-sniper operation is great, Rhys-Davies is excellent, and the poster is outstanding.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I agree with a lot of these.

    Glad I'm not the only one who noticed Dalton's rather awkward smiling.
  • Posts: 17,756
    img_1463.png?w=662

    What's wrong with his smile?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    img_1463.png?w=662

    What's wrong with his smile?
    It scares the living daylights out of me. ;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    img_1463.png?w=662

    What's wrong with his smile?

    That one works.

    It’s other times when he’s with Kara that it feels a bit uncomfortable.

    Like the scene when he’s doing that luvy-duvy grin at her when they are riding on the horse.

    Then-again it’s possible the awkwardness was intentional as he was meant to be pretending to court her.
  • Posts: 4,813
    I love Dalton but he does tend to make the Slingblade face very often.

    billy-bob-thornton-sling-blade.jpg
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 17,756
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    img_1463.png?w=662

    What's wrong with his smile?

    That one works.

    It’s other times when he’s with Kara that it feels a bit uncomfortable.

    Like the scene when he’s doing that luvy-duvy grin at her when they are riding on the horse.

    Then-again it’s possible the awkwardness was intentional as he was meant to be pretending to court her.

    Never bothered me, to be honest. There are other issues with this film I find more annoying, haha!
  • Posts: 16,163
    I love Dalton but he does tend to make the Slingblade face very often.

    billy-bob-thornton-sling-blade.jpg

    LOL! Especially in LTK with his version of a grim expression throughout.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    edited May 2018 Posts: 1,874
    There are maybe a few tweaks here and there I'd like, but as it stands TLD is one fine Bond film. I remember coming back from the cinema in my car, grinning like a mad eejit, really happy that we had Bond back. Not something I'd though would happen after AVTAK, which had me leaving the cinema feeling embarrassed and almost giving up hope of ever seeing a proper Bond film again!
    A fantastic PTS which could only have been bettered if they hadn't dubbed the girl.
    EDIT. Not only a great Bond film, but a great Bond. For my money Dalton is Bond (or rather, was Bond).
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    I'd change very, very little. It's a Top 5 Bond film for me.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Almost nothing. It is my favourite Bond film so what is there to change. There are a few minor issues but I actually like the film as it is. The conflict between the Soviets and the Mujahedin is a bit too complex for being handled well in a Bond film. I also found the way how Bond gets a bomb so quickly from the Kamran shah a bit undewhelming. "Kamran, I need plastic explosives and a time fuse, but very quickly". "Here you go."
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    GBF wrote: »
    Almost nothing. It is my favourite Bond film so what is there to change. There are a few minor issues but I actually like the film as it is. The conflict between the Soviets and the Mujahedin is a bit too complex for being handled well in a Bond film. I also found the way how Bond gets a bomb so quickly from the Kamran shah a bit undewhelming. "Kamran, I need plastic explosives and a time fuse, but very quickly". "Here you go."

    My favorite Bond film too, but that plot is wacky. I still couldn't pass a quiz on what the movie was about. Just think it's got cool action and Dalton.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    There are maybe a few tweaks here and there I'd like, but as it stands TLD is one fine Bond film. I remember coming back from the cinema in my car, grinning like a mad eejit, really happy that we had Bond back. Not something I'd though would happen after AVTAK, which had me leaving the cinema feeling embarrassed and almost giving up hope of ever seeing a proper Bond film again!
    A fantastic PTS which could only have been bettered if they hadn't dubbed the girl.
    EDIT. Not only a great Bond film, but a great Bond. For my money Dalton is Bond (or rather, was Bond).

    Dalton fan too. I've always wondered what ATVAK would have been like with Dalton, but for the first time, after reading your post, I wonder what TLD would have been like with Moore.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Am I the only one here who actually likes both, TLD and AVTAK?
  • Posts: 11,189
    GBF wrote: »
    Am I the only one here who actually likes both, TLD and AVTAK?

    There’s qualities to like about both (I prefer both the title song and score for AVTAK), but from a filmmaking point-of-view TLD is stronger.

    Better casting, better direction, better acting and better characters.
  • Posts: 16,163
    GBF wrote: »
    Am I the only one here who actually likes both, TLD and AVTAK?

    Absolutely not. I love both.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @ToTheRight

    Thanks, good to know I am not alone... I know that the films are very different but they also share similarities. Both have a certain dark 80s atmosphere that I really like. The overall tone is quite dark and even violent but there are also some rather Mooresque moments to lighten up the mood. Barry's final scores also add to my overall enjoyment of these films.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    GBF wrote: »
    @ToTheRight

    Thanks, good to know I am not alone... I know that the films are very different but they also share similarities. Both have a certain dark 80s atmosphere that I really like. The overall tone is quite dark and even violent but there are also some rather Mooresque moments to lighten up the mood. Barry's final scores also add to my overall enjoyment of these films.

    Pretty much the same reasons I enjoy both.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2018 Posts: 5,970
    Remington wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    @ToTheRight

    Thanks, good to know I am not alone... I know that the films are very different but they also share similarities. Both have a certain dark 80s atmosphere that I really like. The overall tone is quite dark and even violent but there are also some rather Mooresque moments to lighten up the mood. Barry's final scores also add to my overall enjoyment of these films.

    Pretty much the same reasons I enjoy both.

    Couldn't agree more :D
  • Here we go... LICENCE TO KILL.

    licence-to-kill-1989.jpg

    Again, this is your chance to say whatever you would have done differently with the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SPECTRE.

    Looking forward to hearing what you guys think. Don't worry if you missed out on discussing any of the films. Once we've finished all the James Bond films, this will become a general discussion about what we would change.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Hmm, tough one. It's a top 10 film for me but I can't deny there are some issues. Most are minor but here goes:
    ----

    -Recast most of the clowns in the Florida scenes, who imho overact with shameful abandon

    -Give Talisa Soto basic acting lessons before filming begins

    -Do something about Dalton’s unkempt mop. What was wrong with his TLD do?

    -Tell Carey Lowell to tone it down a bit. Her character is decent but she overplays during the emotional scenes

    -Rewrite the awful cheese on the boat (just after the bar fight).

    -Advise Dalton to dial it back when he’s being emotional (“Switch the bloody machine off!!!!!”, “Delllaaaa!!!”, “It’s a tough business you’ve picked Ms. Bouvier. Leave it to the professionals!!!”, “You’re bloody lucky to be alive!!!!”). He’s playing James Bond and not some Shakespearean character on stage

    -Drop some of the Q scenes in Isthmus. I find his presence a bit annoying.

    -Re-choreograph the awful bar fight.

    -Drop the winking fish

    -Up the budget a bit so Glen has more to work with, particularly in Florida

    ----

    That's about it for now.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Just a quick one as I'm a bit busy right now. I agree with a lot of what @bondjames has already posted. However, I disliked the PTS immensely on first viewing. Sure, the Dauphin plane lasso stunt is kind of good but it's the whole wedding reception that I simply find "meh". Not only is the PTS pretty uninspiring but so is the title song performed by Gladys Knight that follows it, which is another thing I'd change completely. I also agree that Dalton needs a to visit the barbers, his hair is quite distracting and not in keeping with the well-groomed image I have of Bond. And as we've got an 15-certificate let's use it and allow Bond some more bloody kills in the first half of the movie rather than Sanchez having all the fun. Whilst there's a lot to like in the movie, there's also a lot to dislike: Winking fish, poorly-executed fight scenes, Q and his broomstick transmitter, no London briefing scene, distinct lack of the British touch, Michael Kamen's shot at scoring a Bond movie which was quite disappointing with too much Spanish guitar for my own tastes. And last but not least, that dreadful bloody poster!!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 2018 Posts: 13,791
    The PTS.

    I want to see Bond on his own given a hard time on his way to victory. Save the team stuff for later.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Not make it.
  • Posts: 16,163
    Been waiting for this one. I for one was quite gutted in 1989 that more audiences weren't embracing LTK. I saw it 11 times in the cinema and by the last viewing I was the sole audience member.


    First the marketing campaign was atrocious in the States. Tons of competition that summer, and many people weren't aware the new Bond was out. Eon really needed to up their game here considering the film was tailored to succeed especially in the States.
    Here are some thoughts:

    Odd one here, but I'd have kept the original title LICENCE REVOKED. IMO, it was far more intriguing, relevant to the plot and not so cliched. In fact, LICENCE REVOKED is one of the very few Eon made up titles I liked. The excuse that audiences were too ignorant to understand the meaning of "revoked" doesn't hold up. Look it up if you don't know what it means. Bond fans get an education anyway through the films. How many of us here knew what Faberage Eggs were before we watched OP?

    Also, the Bob Peak LICENCE REVOKED poster artwork, I also found interesting as opposed to the last minute posters that were released.

    Get Tim and the cast out there more promoting the film. It was quite sparse. Nowhere near the publicity of TLD.

    Although apparently John Barry was too ill to compose, I think a score by him would have added more atmosphere. One of the major complaints at the time was it didn't feel like a Bond film. Barry could have addressed that.
    That said I do like Kamen's work, which fit in well with other action films of the time. If anything at least use the LTK title song in instrumental form somewhere. The song was so last minute I believe the rest of the score was probably already complete.

    Cut the slow motion bit in the PTS or play it at normal speed.

    Use a different take of "Goddammit!" Somehow that scene feels like a first time script reading. Same with "This is where it ends Commander". Use a different take.

    Consider dubbing Talisa. I wonder what Nikki Van der Zyl was doing in 1989? I love the cast in LTK and wouldn't change much else there, really.

    Take a little more time with the M scene. It should have had more impact and been one of the best. Here it feel too rushed.

    The blu-ray is beautiful, but the cinematic prints looked dirty. Some reel changes displayed a completely different film stock and colors. The film looked like a Cannon Chuck Norris or Charles Bronson film as seen on the TBS station back in the '90's. Grainy.
    I actually preferred that look for LTK, but it was certainly criticized in '89.

    Use a medium shot of close up for the "Bond. James Bond" bit. I love that it's understated here, but it didn't need to be presented in a wide shot.

    Bond wear Fleming style blue single breasted suits in LTK. Good choice, however, use a cut similar to the suit he wore while interrogating Pushkin. That flattered Tim more.

    Lastly, Tim's hair could have easily been fixed. I always felt LTK was Tim's poorly executed version of a Dirty Harry haircut. Little known fact that Dalton is a HUGE Eastwood fan. Considering Tim was thinning at the hairline, a good barber or stylist could have trimmed it similar to Clint's in SUDDEN IMPACT.
    Still he looked damn good in The Rocketeer two years later, so it could have been fixed.







  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited May 2018 Posts: 7,314
    Some of the major things I'd change would be...

    1) Keep the original title. Seriously, even as a ten year old I knew what the word revoked meant.

    2) Somehow get John Barry to do the score.

    3) Rework Pam's character a bit. Definitely not have her sleep with Bond so early in the film. I thought it would be more interesting to have Bond spend more time with Lupe to further incite Sanchez's rage.

    4) No Q tagging along.

    5) Most importantly, scrub the happy ending. No happy Leiter and no Bond getting his job back without any consequences.
  • Posts: 17,756
    bondjames wrote: »
    Hmm, tough one. It's a top 10 film for me but I can't deny there are some issues. Most are minor but here goes:
    ----

    -Recast most of the clowns in the Florida scenes, who imho overact with shameful abandon

    -Give Talisa Soto basic acting lessons before filming begins

    -Do something about Dalton’s unkempt mop. What was wrong with his TLD do?

    -Tell Carey Lowell to tone it down a bit. Her character is decent but she overplays during the emotional scenes

    -Rewrite the awful cheese on the boat (just after the bar fight).

    -Advise Dalton to dial it back when he’s being emotional (“Switch the bloody machine off!!!!!”, “Delllaaaa!!!”, “It’s a tough business you’ve picked Ms. Bouvier. Leave it to the professionals!!!”, “You’re bloody lucky to be alive!!!!”). He’s playing James Bond and not some Shakespearean character on stage

    -Drop some of the Q scenes in Isthmus. I find his presence a bit annoying.

    -Re-choreograph the awful bar fight.

    -Drop the winking fish

    -Up the budget a bit so Glen has more to work with, particularly in Florida

    ----

    That's about it for now.

    All points I thought of, as well. In fact, I don't think I have anything to add here, other than the film looks so, so bland, and almost TV movie like. What should have been some nice, exotic locations (filmed in Mexico, I believe?), leaves no impression at all. Where the locations in more than a few Bond films looks simply stunning and incredible, the locations in LTK are just flat and uninspired. I wonder what LTK could have looked like, had the locations been presented in a better way.
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