The Brosnan era was actually more fun for Bond fans

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  • Posts: 131
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.
  • Posts: 1,078
    This was a good thread, and it was the right time to resurrect it, given what we've just been dealt.
    Goldeneye was perfect for the time, but I do remember being a bit 'meh' on Brozza, but that was only because I wanted Dalton to have a better run. Now, after seeing what they've done with the Craig era, I'm completely on board with the OP's opinion that yes, the Brosnan era was indeed more FUN!
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,731
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.

    Absolutely. In fact all of my favorite sequences are from the first 90 minutes of the films.
    I'd go so far as to say that only OHMSS and SF have strong last acts (3rd act of 3)
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    AceHole wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.

    Absolutely. In fact all of my favorite sequences are from the first 90 minutes of the films.
    I'd go so far as to say that only OHMSS and SF have strong last acts (3rd act of 3)

    I'd include LtK as well. One of the rare instances where the action climax is the highlight.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Minion wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.

    Absolutely. In fact all of my favorite sequences are from the first 90 minutes of the films.
    I'd go so far as to say that only OHMSS and SF have strong last acts (3rd act of 3)

    I'd include LtK as well. One of the rare instances where the action climax is the highlight.

    Each to their own, Minion. I feel that the highlight is the very Bondian sequence of 007 sneaking aboard and then wreaking havoc on, below and in the sky above the Wavecrest yacht...
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    AceHole wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.

    Absolutely. In fact all of my favorite sequences are from the first 90 minutes of the films.
    I'd go so far as to say that only OHMSS and SF have strong last acts (3rd act of 3)

    I'd include LtK as well. One of the rare instances where the action climax is the highlight.

    Each to their own, Minion. I feel that the highlight is the very Bondian sequence of 007 sneaking aboard and then wreaking havoc on, below and in the sky above the Wavecrest yacht...

    That was also, as they say, ace. 👌
  • Posts: 7,418
    You can't be a bond fan and not like Brosnan, the guy looked the part 100% which is a big deal and was a great bond in a few average formulaic scripts, which is not his fault. Craig is just lucky he got skyfall and casino royale which are maybe the 2 best scripted bond movies ever. take away those Craig is another mediocre but palatable Dalton bond.

    Oh dear God!🙄🙄🙄
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    AceHole wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    True, it was a bit frontloaded.

    Most Bond films are frontloaded to some degree IMO. The finales are big and loud, but the more interesting action tends to happen early on.

    Absolutely. In fact all of my favorite sequences are from the first 90 minutes of the films.
    I'd go so far as to say that only OHMSS and SF have strong last acts (3rd act of 3)

    Ehh, that rear projection stuff in OHMSS is pretty poor. Almost as bad as the “car chase” in DN.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,383
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.
  • Posts: 131
    You can't be a bond fan and not like Brosnan, the guy looked the part 100% which is a big deal and was a great bond in a few average formulaic scripts, which is not his fault. Craig is just lucky he got skyfall and casino royale which are maybe the 2 best scripted bond movies ever. take away those Craig is another mediocre but palatable Dalton bond.

    Come on, Dalton was not half bad. IMO he was great.
    To me the biggest subjective difference between Brosnan and Craig is that Craig's Bond, for all the humanity and emotions the plots imbued him with, still seemed cold to the core, a pure, intense killing machine, while Brosnan, for all the shallow plots he was given, came across as more human, or at least better able to occasionally kick back and enjoy himself, and more sophisticated and at ease with the finer things in life. If I were to pick one of their Bonds to go for a drink with, it would be Brosnan's hands down. Not an important factor in being a professional assassin perhaps, but made me root for him.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.

    Much as I love OHMSS, my last rewatch of it led to me to the same conclusion about that Bobsleigh chase. Even the way with which Blofeld’s head smashes through the perfect tree branch at the perfect time...a bit much. Still love how it’s edited however!
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 131
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.

    Technically it would be Moonraker, I suppose... but it was soooo corny. LTK was great, I agree, though on balance, like @AceHole, I prefer the middle part with Bond sleuthing around. Skyfall was excellent too, but M dying, while well done, made it bittersweet.
    Goldfinger somehow lacked punch for me for all its tense action, maybe because it looked like two climaxes stacked together ending with the weaker one (first the bomb, then the fight on the plane).

    I think I'd go for FYEO for my favourite final act; it was done on an almost intimate scale compared to, say, YOLT, but its nice build-up and the striking Meteora setting made it memorable. Still, if I were to pick my favourite scenes from any Bond film, all of them would be from the first 2/3rds time-wise. NTTD aside, by the time a Bond film gets to the climax, you know what to expect, whatever the exact mechanics of getting there may be, whereas early scenes carry more intrigue and the action often features more creative stunts.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,266
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.

    Technically it would be Moonraker, I suppose... but it was soooo corny. LTK was great, I agree, though on balance, like @AceHole, I prefer the middle part with Bond sleuthing around. Skyfall was excellent too, but M dying, while well done, made it bittersweet.
    Goldfinger somehow lacked punch for me for all its tense action, maybe because it looked like two climaxes stacked together ending with the weaker one (first the bomb, then the fight on the plane).

    I think I'd go for FYEO for my favourite final act; it was done on an almost intimate scale compared to, say, YOLT, but its nice build-up and the striking Meteora setting made it memorable. Still, if I were to pick my favourite scenes from any Bond film, all of them would be from the first 2/3rds time-wise. NTTD aside, by the time a Bond film gets to the climax, you know what to expect, whatever the exact mechanics of getting there may be, whereas early scenes carry more intrigue and the action often features more creative stunts.

    FYEO has my favorite “Bond/Allies vs Villians/Henchmen” finale of the entire series. It does for me what OHMSS does, tones down back on the big, bombastic battles of their proceeding films, instead favoring a smaller, more covert operation. FYEO also has the rock climbing sequence working in its favor.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,383
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.

    Technically it would be Moonraker, I suppose... but it was soooo corny. LTK was great, I agree, though on balance, like @AceHole, I prefer the middle part with Bond sleuthing around. Skyfall was excellent too, but M dying, while well done, made it bittersweet.
    Goldfinger somehow lacked punch for me for all its tense action, maybe because it looked like two climaxes stacked together ending with the weaker one (first the bomb, then the fight on the plane).

    I think I'd go for FYEO for my favourite final act; it was done on an almost intimate scale compared to, say, YOLT, but its nice build-up and the striking Meteora setting made it memorable. Still, if I were to pick my favourite scenes from any Bond film, all of them would be from the first 2/3rds time-wise. NTTD aside, by the time a Bond film gets to the climax, you know what to expect, whatever the exact mechanics of getting there may be, whereas early scenes carry more intrigue and the action often features more creative stunts.

    Ah I actually had FYEO down as one of the dullest, I just don’t find that mountain stuff all that interesting and the location is just a fairly average monastery once you’re on top of the rock. FYEO always loses me a bit; I find it goes downhill a bit after Cortina.
    I think AVTAK actually has a decent climax. Nice and spectacular and doesn’t feel too drawn out.
  • Posts: 131
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I do like OHMSS but the m last time I watched it it struck me that a bobsleigh chase is a touch too ridiculous even for a Bond film! Especially one where they stop to put helmets on :D

    I’d certainly agree that LTK has a killer climax though, I’m hard-pressed to think of another which ends so strongly. Goldfinger, maybe Skyfall.
    Actually I guess you’d have to say Moonraker has a strong ending because the whole film is building to Bond going to space.

    Technically it would be Moonraker, I suppose... but it was soooo corny. LTK was great, I agree, though on balance, like @AceHole, I prefer the middle part with Bond sleuthing around. Skyfall was excellent too, but M dying, while well done, made it bittersweet.
    Goldfinger somehow lacked punch for me for all its tense action, maybe because it looked like two climaxes stacked together ending with the weaker one (first the bomb, then the fight on the plane).

    I think I'd go for FYEO for my favourite final act; it was done on an almost intimate scale compared to, say, YOLT, but its nice build-up and the striking Meteora setting made it memorable. Still, if I were to pick my favourite scenes from any Bond film, all of them would be from the first 2/3rds time-wise. NTTD aside, by the time a Bond film gets to the climax, you know what to expect, whatever the exact mechanics of getting there may be, whereas early scenes carry more intrigue and the action often features more creative stunts.

    Ah I actually had FYEO down as one of the dullest, I just don’t find that mountain stuff all that interesting and the location is just a fairly average monastery once you’re on top of the rock. FYEO always loses me a bit; I find it goes downhill a bit after Cortina.
    I think AVTAK actually has a decent climax. Nice and spectacular and doesn’t feel too drawn out.

    Funny, FYEO is the only Moore film I like in its entirety; and with Meteora being a realistic and smaller-scale setting (unlike the many Bond climaxes shot on studio sets), the tension felt more immediate somehow, and while the monastery itself is pretty cramped, I liked the surroundings so much as to make a point of going there a few years back. My other Moore favourite, TSWLM, loses me by, you guessed it, the studio climax :P
    It has been ages since I watched AVTAK, so I cannot accurately opine. I remember the part taking place in the mine, and MayDay going good and sacrificing herself, but cannot recall any of the Golden Gate scenes that followed.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 131
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.
    Fair enough, it gives you more films to enjoy! I have seen them all except CR'67, but where I regularly re-watch two-thirds of them featuring all six Bonds, and am very fond of FYEO and TSWLM, the remainder, including the bulk of Sir Roger's films, do not tempt me as much except for the occasional fast-forward between the more memorable scenes.

  • Posts: 131
    FYEO has my favorite “Bond/Allies vs Villians/Henchmen” finale of the entire series. It does for me what OHMSS does, tones down back on the big, bombastic battles of their proceeding films, instead favoring a smaller, more covert operation. FYEO also has the rock climbing sequence working in its favor.

    +1
    I was in my teens when I saw it (on home video, unfortunately), so admittedly more impressionable, but both the climb and the cargo crate ride up to the monastery had me on the edge of my seat.
  • Posts: 16,162
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.

    Same here, and for me that includes the '67 Cr and NSNA.
    I do feel the Pierce films were a lot of fun. It was a great era for me.
  • Posts: 131
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.

    Same here, and for me that includes the '67 Cr and NSNA.
    I do feel the Pierce films were a lot of fun. It was a great era for me.

    Classic-era Connery fans will laugh me off the forum, but I prefer NSNA to TB.
  • Posts: 16,162
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.

    Same here, and for me that includes the '67 Cr and NSNA.
    I do feel the Pierce films were a lot of fun. It was a great era for me.

    Classic-era Connery fans will laugh me off the forum, but I prefer NSNA to TB.

    I love them both, really and NSNA is almost always in my top 10 (tied with it's competition, Octopussy).
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,566
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.

    Same here, and for me that includes the '67 Cr and NSNA.
    I do feel the Pierce films were a lot of fun. It was a great era for me.

    Classic-era Connery fans will laugh me off the forum, but I prefer NSNA to TB.

    :)) :)) =))

    (We aims to please...)
  • Posts: 131
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.

    Same here, and for me that includes the '67 Cr and NSNA.
    I do feel the Pierce films were a lot of fun. It was a great era for me.

    Classic-era Connery fans will laugh me off the forum, but I prefer NSNA to TB.

    :)) :)) =))

    (We aims to please...)

    :D :D :D
  • Posts: 131
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love them both, really and NSNA is almost always in my top 10 (tied with it's competition, Octopussy).

    Now Octopussy is one where I can only watch a handful of scenes. Love the PTS, and the silly-but-fun Udaipur palace part, but Bond in clown makeup was, to use the tired cliche, a jump-the-shark moment for me.
    :O) :-O
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    To me both TB and NSNA are weaksauce in different ways, but a hybrid of the two might be something special.
  • Posts: 131
    Minion wrote: »
    To me both TB and NSNA are weaksauce in different ways, but a hybrid of the two might be something special.

    ...kinda makes me wish for a fan edit. But I guess de-aging (or aging) Connery to pull it off would be too much hard work.
  • Posts: 1,917
    You can't be a bond fan and not like Brosnan, the guy looked the part 100% which is a big deal and was a great bond in a few average formulaic scripts, which is not his fault. Craig is just lucky he got skyfall and casino royale which are maybe the 2 best scripted bond movies ever. take away those Craig is another mediocre but palatable Dalton bond.
    Keeping that Craig not Bond spirit alive 15 years later. You can find any number of actors who can look the part. People doubted Craig's looks at first and look at how he's been accepted. At least he didn't get tagged as a Connery/Moore hybrid and brought something original to the role.

    Lucky or did the creative team just know they had a talented actor that could make the material ring true?
    mtm wrote: »
    Ah okay, I’m a fan of all of the films. Some are better than others and have weak points here and there, but I essentially like all of them.
    I do as well and would guess to an extent most of the people here do too. Discussing the strong and weak points are part of the fun here, but I think when it's all said and done we all love these. I'll even admit to having a soft spot for CR '67.


  • edited October 2021 Posts: 16,162
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love them both, really and NSNA is almost always in my top 10 (tied with it's competition, Octopussy).

    Now Octopussy is one where I can only watch a handful of scenes. Love the PTS, and the silly-but-fun Udaipur palace part, but Bond in clown makeup was, to use the tired cliche, a jump-the-shark moment for me.
    :O) :-O

    When I was younger I thought that bit was too silly, but now the clown makeup scene works for me. Sir Roger maintains suspense throughout. He's quite serious and brutal here. That shot of him kicking the officer straight in the groin always gets me.
  • BT3366 wrote: »
    Keeping that Craig not Bond spirit alive 15 years later. You can find any number of actors who can look the part. People doubted Craig's looks at first and look at how he's been accepted. At least he didn't get tagged as a Connery/Moore hybrid and brought something original to the role.

    Lucky or did the creative team just know they had a talented actor that could make the material ring true?

    To be fair, while Brosnan did incorporate Connery/Moore, and even some Dalton, he also brought some of his own charm and sophistication to the role, and still managed to make it his own, like all the others.

    While I think Connery/Moore/Brosnan are better Bond’s than Craig, I think that Craig is probably the best actor (in terms of his skills) to have taken that part. Dalton maybe comes close, and one could possibly make the argument for Dalton being a better actor than Craig, but you can’t deny that Craig’s acting abilities does appear to be far more wide than some of the others. I just think Connery, Moore, and Brosnan were better at playing Bond than Craig was.
  • Posts: 1,917
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Keeping that Craig not Bond spirit alive 15 years later. You can find any number of actors who can look the part. People doubted Craig's looks at first and look at how he's been accepted. At least he didn't get tagged as a Connery/Moore hybrid and brought something original to the role.

    Lucky or did the creative team just know they had a talented actor that could make the material ring true?

    To be fair, while Brosnan did incorporate Connery/Moore, and even some Dalton, he also brought some of his own charm and sophistication to the role, and still managed to make it his own, like all the others.

    While I think Connery/Moore/Brosnan are better Bond’s than Craig, I think that Craig is probably the best actor (in terms of his skills) to have taken that part. Dalton maybe comes close, and one could possibly make the argument for Dalton being a better actor than Craig, but you can’t deny that Craig’s acting abilities does appear to be far more wide than some of the others. I just think Connery, Moore, and Brosnan were better at playing Bond than Craig was.

    I'll never deny he was the right man at the time for the role if Dalton couldn't do it. I also admit not having more Dalton gave me a bit more bias against Brosnan's version of Bond.

    But when you take parts of actors who set those standards and don't improve on the originals it just can't help but make that version less unique. Craig's version of Bond showed there were more possibilities than just portraying the character as he's expected and that made watching him fresh and always interesting. While I think he'll be tough to replace, I am looking forward to what Eon comes up with because I'm a James Bond fan and want to see it succeed.

    But I can understand where others have their ideas of what works for them in a Bond. I was in a completely different discussion group the other day and there was a guy who said he won't watch any Bond other than Connery. He watched LALD and could only think of Simon Templar and that put him against any others. I still love Connery maybe the most but look what I'd be missing out on.
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