The Brosnan era was actually more fun for Bond fans

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, after Connery left, Cubby famously asked Dalton to play Bond in OHMSS. He was only 23, but he didn't look like a kid and he'd already got that Saturnine brooding look (see him in Wuthering Heights from 1970) - we've all dreamed of how brilliant OHMSS would've been with a young Dalton, right?!
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,165
    My understanding is this was the order of events that occured:

    1. EON sought out Dalton following Moore's retirement from the role, but he was busy with another project.
    2. EON sought out Pierce Brosnan as their #2 pick. He graciously accepts.
    3. NBC renews Remington Steele; Pierce is dropped by EON.
    4. Dalton's schedule has now freed up; EON secures him as the next 007.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, after Connery left, Cubby famously asked Dalton to play Bond in OHMSS. He was only 23, but he didn't look like a kid and he'd already got that Saturnine brooding look (see him in Wuthering Heights from 1970) - we've all dreamed of how brilliant OHMSS would've been with a young Dalton, right?!
    While this story has been around for years, I think recently it has proven to be more of a romanticized version of the truth. I don't doubt Cubby saw Dalton in his debut The Lion in Winter in '68 and thought of him as a potential future Bond, but by then OHMSS was well under way.

    It's debatable also of his being returned to when the role opened up in the following years. There seem to be so many varying accounts. I'd defer to author Charles Helfenstein who wrote the definitive making-of books on OHMSS and TLD. More believable is Cubby supposedly meeting Brosnan during FYEO where his wife was playing Countess Lisl and keeping him in mind as a possible future Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Wasn't Dalton the first and third choice. Plus sought years earlier.

    I've always suspected the 'first choice' thing was a bit of a company line, much like the 'he didn't want to come back for B17' one.
  • BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, after Connery left, Cubby famously asked Dalton to play Bond in OHMSS. He was only 23, but he didn't look like a kid and he'd already got that Saturnine brooding look (see him in Wuthering Heights from 1970) - we've all dreamed of how brilliant OHMSS would've been with a young Dalton, right?!
    While this story has been around for years, I think recently it has proven to be more of a romanticized version of the truth. I don't doubt Cubby saw Dalton in his debut The Lion in Winter in '68 and thought of him as a potential future Bond, but by then OHMSS was well under way.

    It's debatable also of his being returned to when the role opened up in the following years. There seem to be so many varying accounts. I'd defer to author Charles Helfenstein who wrote the definitive making-of books on OHMSS and TLD. More believable is Cubby supposedly meeting Brosnan during FYEO where his wife was playing Countess Lisl and keeping him in mind as a possible future Bond.

    I think the story is that Timothy heard of an audition back in 68, but it wasn’t specified what the role was, not anything about a film director, producers, anything, just another casting call. Once Dalton found out that the audition was for Bond, he decided not to go, believing himself way too young, at least that’s Helfenstein portrays it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.
  • mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.

    Those Brolin screentests are fascinating, you could tell he was going for a Roger Moore type persona with his Bond (if he ever was to be cast)
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Although Dalton himself did say 'I'd been asked many years ago if I'd be interested in taking over the role when Sean Connery relinquished it...but at that time I must have been only 24 or 25. And I can remember thinking "Too young!" I couldn't have taken over from him at that time.' Dalton was 24 or 25 in the period between OHMSS and LALD, so I suppose he could've been asked after DAF rather than before OHMSS, when he was 23?
    I'd assumed it was Cubby who asked Dalton, from John Glen's quote where he said that in 1986 he put Dalton's name forward by saying to Cubby 'What about Timothy Dalton? You did talk to him once about it and he wasn't interested when he was much younger.' But yes, so much myth-making goes on, who knows for sure at this point? Interesting to ponder the might-have-beens, though, no?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.

    I'm only aware of Dalton being tested in 86 or so?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited November 2021 Posts: 45,489
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.

    I'm only aware of Dalton being tested in 86 or so?

    The Sam Neil screentest is also available as extra material.

    Edit: Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. You were talking about Dalton screentesting in 83, @mtm? Or rather 82.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.

    I'm only aware of Dalton being tested in 86 or so?

    The Sam Neil screentest is also available as extra material.

    Edit: Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. You were talking about Dalton screentesting in 83, @mtm? Or rather 82.

    Yes, sorry; reading it back it wasn't very clear. I was thinking that if they were testing people for Octopussy I wonder whether they tested Dalton then, and if not why not. Brosnan seemed to not quite be fully on their radar then.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What about in '83 when James Brolin was auditioned? Did they not test him then?
    I don't buy that he wouldn't have done it- he was doing Charlie's Angels and the like.

    They did test him, and it s available as extra material.

    I'm only aware of Dalton being tested in 86 or so?

    The Sam Neil screentest is also available as extra material.

    Edit: Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. You were talking about Dalton screentesting in 83, @mtm? Or rather 82.

    Yes, sorry; reading it back it wasn't very clear. I was thinking that if they were testing people for Octopussy I wonder whether they tested Dalton then, and if not why not. Brosnan seemed to not quite be fully on their radar then.

    Good point, of all the people in the business, I can t believe Brolin was the best. Not even close.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Yeah, I actually didn't entirely mind Brolin in that bit: he's sort of commanding, but in perhaps a slightly too laid-back way! I think he was perhaps playing Matt Helm rather than Bond :D
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I actually didn't entirely mind Brolin in that bit: he's sort of commanding, but in perhaps a slightly too laid-back way! I think he was perhaps playing Matt Helm rather than Bond :D

    Thought he was good in Marcus Welby M.D., excellent in Capricorn One & Westworld.... never saw him as a Bond sort....
  • Posts: 1,917
    Brolin got his chance at being an agent - P.W. Herman in the film within a film in Pee Wee's Big Adventure.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    mtm wrote: »
    They did manage to tailor a few scenes for Dalton’s interpretation like Pushkin’s interrogation.

    How do you mean? Was that changed?

    Just looking at the Pushkin scene I cannot imagine Moore’s Bond being so utterly ruthless. EON never specified which scenes were tailored to Dalton, but i think it’s easy to see where they did the tweaking.
  • mtm wrote: »
    They did manage to tailor a few scenes for Dalton’s interpretation like Pushkin’s interrogation.

    How do you mean? Was that changed?

    Just looking at the Pushkin scene I cannot imagine Moore’s Bond being so utterly ruthless. EON never specified which scenes were tailored to Dalton, but i think it’s easy to see where they did the tweaking.

    I think Moore did the cold blooded aspects great in FYEO, but yeah, he’d never come across as that cold blooded without some kind of comic relief to ease the tension
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Does is really matter whether Dalton was first choice or not? It doesn't bother anyone that Connery wasn't first choice. Connery wasn't even 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th choice. Off the top of my head, I can name 5 actors that were offered the role before Connery...

    - Richard Johnson (under contract to MGM, didn't want to be further locked into a contract with Bond)
    - Richard Burton (felt that Bond might tarnish his image. And that, right there, might just be the best joke of all time)
    - Cary Grant (would commit to one film, and one film only)
    - Rod Taylor (felt the role would be beneath him. A pint of regret for Mr Taylor)
    - Patrick McGoohan (felt that Bond wasn't something he'd want his children to see)

    And those are just the ones I can think up on the spot. Connery might not even have been within the first 10 names offered the role, but still a lot of people believe that Connery is #1.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    mtm wrote: »
    They did manage to tailor a few scenes for Dalton’s interpretation like Pushkin’s interrogation.

    How do you mean? Was that changed?

    Just looking at the Pushkin scene I cannot imagine Moore’s Bond being so utterly ruthless. EON never specified which scenes were tailored to Dalton, but i think it’s easy to see where they did the tweaking.

    But TLD was never written for Moore; I suspect if Brosnan had played Bond as planned that scene wouldn't have changed at all.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 7,507
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, after Connery left, Cubby famously asked Dalton to play Bond in OHMSS. He was only 23, but he didn't look like a kid and he'd already got that Saturnine brooding look (see him in Wuthering Heights from 1970) - we've all dreamed of how brilliant OHMSS would've been with a young Dalton, right?!


    We sure have! Just imagine him and Diana together :x =((
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Does is really matter whether Dalton was first choice or not? It doesn't bother anyone that Connery wasn't first choice. Connery wasn't even 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th choice. Off the top of my head, I can name 5 actors that were offered the role before Connery...

    - Richard Johnson (under contract to MGM, didn't want to be further locked into a contract with Bond)
    - Richard Burton (felt that Bond might tarnish his image. And that, right there, might just be the best joke of all time)
    - Cary Grant (would commit to one film, and one film only)
    - Rod Taylor (felt the role would be beneath him. A pint of regret for Mr Taylor)
    - Patrick McGoohan (felt that Bond wasn't something he'd want his children to see)

    And those are just the ones I can think up on the spot. Connery might not even have been within the first 10 names offered the role, but still a lot of people believe that Connery is #1.

    I don’t think Bond fans care that Dalton was or wasn’t the first choice. But American audiences certainly held the sentiment that Brosnan was robbed and Dalton was placeholder. The American media seemed to hold that sentiment.

    When Dalton was announced as Bond, People magazine ran this cover article about Brosnan getting screwed over. Dalton’s agent tried to arrange an interview with the magazine but they declined.

    DiY-9V7X0AADJtj.jpg


    Then theres this infamous bit from an interview with a US journalist where he kept pressing on about Pierce Brosnan when Cubby was trying to promote Dalton.

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 7,507
    Yes, Pierce was the only one of the Bond actors who was declared as a perfect Bond even before the audience had a chance to see him in the role. All the other actors had a lot to prove, Pierce didn't.
  • Posts: 16,162
    Does is really matter whether Dalton was first choice or not? It doesn't bother anyone that Connery wasn't first choice. Connery wasn't even 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th choice. Off the top of my head, I can name 5 actors that were offered the role before Connery...

    - Richard Johnson (under contract to MGM, didn't want to be further locked into a contract with Bond)
    - Richard Burton (felt that Bond might tarnish his image. And that, right there, might just be the best joke of all time)
    - Cary Grant (would commit to one film, and one film only)
    - Rod Taylor (felt the role would be beneath him. A pint of regret for Mr Taylor)
    - Patrick McGoohan (felt that Bond wasn't something he'd want his children to see)

    And those are just the ones I can think up on the spot. Connery might not even have been within the first 10 names offered the role, but still a lot of people believe that Connery is #1.

    I don’t think Bond fans care that Dalton was or wasn’t the first choice. But American audiences certainly held the sentiment that Brosnan was robbed and Dalton was placeholder. The American media seemed to hold that sentiment.

    When Dalton was announced as Bond, People magazine ran this cover article about Brosnan getting screwed over. Dalton’s agent tried to arrange an interview with the magazine but they declined.

    DiY-9V7X0AADJtj.jpg


    Then theres this infamous bit from an interview with a US journalist where he kept pressing on about Pierce Brosnan when Cubby was trying to promote Dalton.


    I absolutely LOVE Cubby's facial expression throughout this interview.
  • Posts: 7,417
    Stamper wrote: »
    It's funny people say they wanted more Dalton which I understand.

    Myself, I regret Brosnan didn't get the gig in 86. If he had done TLD and LTK, then the come back, that would have made his stint at 6 films over a 17 years period. That would have been a huge body of work and just bloody awesome.

    I would have lost all interest in Bond movies, if that happened!
  • Posts: 7,417
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It’s strange: I think Dalton is a head and tails a better Bond than Brosnan, BUT, I do think Brosnan c. 1986/7 would have been a kick ass Bond; the one early role Brosnan had that I loved was The Fourth Protocol. He was stone-cold and believable. If that actor played Bond I think he would have been tremendous. I also think his youth would have made him somewhat fearless in the role.

    Yeah I think that's bang on- the cold Protocol Brosnan would have worked very well in this. I think we'd also have got the comedy squinty Pierce of Remington Steel and the Diet Coke ads as well, but I don't think that's a bad thing as people loved all that and the audience would have most probably connected with him better. And in Daylights he would have landed a few of the gags better than Tim did- I think even his greatest fans acknowledge that he wasn't at his most comfortable with the laughs.

    Yeh, and of course we all go to see Bond movies for the comedy!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It’s strange: I think Dalton is a head and tails a better Bond than Brosnan, BUT, I do think Brosnan c. 1986/7 would have been a kick ass Bond; the one early role Brosnan had that I loved was The Fourth Protocol. He was stone-cold and believable. If that actor played Bond I think he would have been tremendous. I also think his youth would have made him somewhat fearless in the role.

    Yeah I think that's bang on- the cold Protocol Brosnan would have worked very well in this. I think we'd also have got the comedy squinty Pierce of Remington Steel and the Diet Coke ads as well, but I don't think that's a bad thing as people loved all that and the audience would have most probably connected with him better. And in Daylights he would have landed a few of the gags better than Tim did- I think even his greatest fans acknowledge that he wasn't at his most comfortable with the laughs.

    Yeh, and of course we all go to see Bond movies for the comedy!

    A great many people see the humour as part of the Bond package, so yes.
  • Posts: 7,417
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It’s strange: I think Dalton is a head and tails a better Bond than Brosnan, BUT, I do think Brosnan c. 1986/7 would have been a kick ass Bond; the one early role Brosnan had that I loved was The Fourth Protocol. He was stone-cold and believable. If that actor played Bond I think he would have been tremendous. I also think his youth would have made him somewhat fearless in the role.

    Yeah I think that's bang on- the cold Protocol Brosnan would have worked very well in this. I think we'd also have got the comedy squinty Pierce of Remington Steel and the Diet Coke ads as well, but I don't think that's a bad thing as people loved all that and the audience would have most probably connected with him better. And in Daylights he would have landed a few of the gags better than Tim did- I think even his greatest fans acknowledge that he wasn't at his most comfortable with the laughs.

    Yeh, and of course we all go to see Bond movies for the comedy!

    A great many people see the humour as part of the Bond package, so yes.

    It wouldnt be the top reason for many, certainly not for me!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It’s strange: I think Dalton is a head and tails a better Bond than Brosnan, BUT, I do think Brosnan c. 1986/7 would have been a kick ass Bond; the one early role Brosnan had that I loved was The Fourth Protocol. He was stone-cold and believable. If that actor played Bond I think he would have been tremendous. I also think his youth would have made him somewhat fearless in the role.

    Yeah I think that's bang on- the cold Protocol Brosnan would have worked very well in this. I think we'd also have got the comedy squinty Pierce of Remington Steel and the Diet Coke ads as well, but I don't think that's a bad thing as people loved all that and the audience would have most probably connected with him better. And in Daylights he would have landed a few of the gags better than Tim did- I think even his greatest fans acknowledge that he wasn't at his most comfortable with the laughs.

    Yeh, and of course we all go to see Bond movies for the comedy!

    Absolutely, yeah. It's part of the whole thing.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 3,152
    It's quite marked how often people have looked at Brosnan in other roles and said they wished he'd played Bond more like that, though, no? Ok, no one thinks he had anything like Craig's ability, but it does suggest that he actually might've been capable of giving it a bit more depth if he'd been given the chance. Painface notwithstanding, obvs. ;)
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