NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

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Comments

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe, I know what you're saying. I humiliated myself on the old box office thread by predicting $1.2bn for SP before release. Shows what I know. I've learned my lesson and will temper expectations. As long as it does $800M + I think it will be considered a success, and that should be reasonably achievable as long as the usual strong markets of the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Australia continue to show outsize returns, the US gross doesn't crater (it shouldn't) and China increases (it should).

    I did exactly the same, which is where I learned lessons. Trouble is now I the same mistakes being made.

    I honestly think it will be difficult in China, because the type of film Craig makes doesn't translate well. I think the Brosnan films would have slain it over there had the market been anywhere near the size it is now.
    I don't disagree on the relative historic popularity of the Craig films in China. The market has grown since 2015 though, so as long as it does just as well as SP did and picks up traction in some other growing markets (including Latin America and Mexico) it should do ok. These global markets are massive factors now, and can be wild cards.

    I also think a Brosnan style Bond film would be very popular in the Chinese market today, given their interest in the FF franchise and other more lighter action oriented fare like MI.

    @bondjames yes, and exactly that speaks to my point. I think Bond 25 will not be like Spectre, i.e. it won't be a globetrotting action-fest which goes down well in China, but it also won't be the lightening in a bottle, stars aligning experience that SF was for much of Europe.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe, I know what you're saying. I humiliated myself on the old box office thread by predicting $1.2bn for SP before release. Shows what I know. I've learned my lesson and will temper expectations. As long as it does $800M + I think it will be considered a success, and that should be reasonably achievable as long as the usual strong markets of the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Australia continue to show outsize returns, the US gross doesn't crater (it shouldn't) and China increases (it should).

    I did exactly the same, which is where I learned lessons. Trouble is now I the same mistakes being made.

    I honestly think it will be difficult in China, because the type of film Craig makes doesn't translate well. I think the Brosnan films would have slain it over there had the market been anywhere near the size it is now.
    I don't disagree on the relative historic popularity of the Craig films in China. The market has grown since 2015 though, so as long as it does just as well as SP did and picks up traction in some other growing markets (including Latin America and Mexico) it should do ok. These global markets are massive factors now, and can be wild cards.

    I also think a Brosnan style Bond film would be very popular in the Chinese market today, given their interest in the FF franchise and other more lighter action oriented fare like MI.

    @bondjames yes, and exactly that speaks to my point. I think Bond 25 will not be like Spectre, i.e. it won't be a globetrotting action-fest which goes down well in China, but it also won't be the lightening in a bottle, stars aligning experience that SF was for much of Europe.
    That is certainly possible. The European gross for the last two Bond films have been 'outsize' in relation to other franchises of this type, and there is no guarantee that this will continue. I suppose we shall have to see. If the film has a European focus or aesthetic, then it's still possible. If it focuses elsewhere, then maybe not.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited January 2019 Posts: 8,395
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    MI managed it after 6 attempts, and they had to deliver a franchise best effort in order to reach that benchmark. They had to pull out all the stops, and push practical effects to their limits in order to deliver something which won over enough people to cross that line.

    I think when it comes to Bond, Skyfall was a complete one off, and after that people rushed out to see the follow up because they wanted to see what happens next. But I think all the air has been let out of that balloon now, and Bond 25 is still a year from release. All this time passing isn't engendering interest but apathy.

    I say again, I will be impressed if Bond 25 makes 750 US. If it does 800 I will be blown away.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    MI managed it after 6 attempts, and they had to deliver a franchise best effort in order to reach that benchmark. They had to pull out all the stops, and push practical effects to their limits in order to deliver something which won over enough people to cross that line.

    I think when it comes to Bond, Skyfall was a complete one off, and after that people rushed out to see the follow up because they wanted to see what happens next. But I think all the air has been let out of that balloon now, and Bond 25 is still a year from release. All this time passing isn't engendering interest but apathy.

    I say again, I will be impressed if Bond 25 makes 750 US. If it does 800 I will be blown away.

    I think we're certainly coming from different corners of the ring on this one, as I see plenty of positive curiosity about Bond 25 online at the moment; at least the normal amount of curiosity considering we don't have a cast or even a title yet. It'd be worth bearing in mind that interest in MI6 prior to the film's release only really skyrocketed after Cruise's injury and the first trailer. Once we have news and trailers, we'll be able to gauge it better.

    I will say that it's equally premature to write off a $750-800million return when you look at some of the films that have reached that benchmark since the release of SP. If the films is in any way good, I think it'll manage it easily. As you said above, all the Bonds are popular, Craig is no different. The break may have the opposite effect - hype could skyrocket closer to the time.

    I really do get the feeling a slightly negative attitude towards the DC era is colouring your words a bit. I don't mean that confrontationally, it's just an observation. I didn't like SP either.

    Mind you, I don't even know why I'm here in this thread. I don't give a hoot about Box Office anymore. I would certainly say the $1billion is out of the question.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    Literally nobody who knows what they're talking about will say that.

    And I don't think there's "too much stock" being put into it being Craig's last. It's a pretty big hinge that could work wonders if it's used right. And yes, all the Bonds were popular, but nobody really knew when their last film was going to be their last. And that is a fundamental key difference whether you're a fan of Craig or not. The point of "all the Bonds being popular so this won't be any better than those" isn't really relevant at all in general really either, considering how different the box office works now compared to, say, even ten years ago.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    It could all go tits up, for sure. Anything's possible, nothing is for certain. But there's far more reason to believe it'll do well than it won't.

    Well said, sir. Thank you.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    MI managed it after 6 attempts, and they had to deliver a franchise best effort in order to reach that benchmark. They had to pull out all the stops, and push practical effects to their limits in order to deliver something which won over enough people to cross that line.

    I think when it comes to Bond, Skyfall was a complete one off, and after that people rushed out to see the follow up because they wanted to see what happens next. But I think all the air has been let out of that balloon now, and Bond 25 is still a year from release. All this time passing isn't engendering interest but apathy.

    I say again, I will be impressed if Bond 25 makes 750 US. If it does 800 I will be blown away.

    I think we're certainly coming from different corners of the ring on this one, as I see plenty of positive curiosity about Bond 25 online at the moment; at least the normal amount of curiosity considering we don't have a cast or even a title yet. It'd be worth bearing in mind that interest in MI6 prior to the film's release only really skyrocketed after Cruise's injury and the first trailer. Once we have news and trailers, we'll be able to gauge it better.

    I will say that it's equally premature to write off a $750-800million return when you look at some of the films that have reached that benchmark since the release of SP. If the films is in any way good, I think it'll manage it easily. As you said above, all the Bonds are popular, Craig is no different. The break may have the opposite effect - hype could skyrocket closer to the time.

    I really do get the feeling a slightly negative attitude towards the DC era is colouring your words a bit. I don't mean that confrontationally, it's just an observation. I didn't like SP either.

    Mind you, I don't even know why I'm here in this thread. I don't give a hoot about Box Office anymore. I would certainly say the $1billion is out of the question.

    Again, more calm reason and observation on your part. Again, well said.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    MI managed it after 6 attempts, and they had to deliver a franchise best effort in order to reach that benchmark. They had to pull out all the stops, and push practical effects to their limits in order to deliver something which won over enough people to cross that line.

    I think when it comes to Bond, Skyfall was a complete one off, and after that people rushed out to see the follow up because they wanted to see what happens next. But I think all the air has been let out of that balloon now, and Bond 25 is still a year from release. All this time passing isn't engendering interest but apathy.

    I say again, I will be impressed if Bond 25 makes 750 US. If it does 800 I will be blown away.

    I think we're certainly coming from different corners of the ring on this one, as I see plenty of positive curiosity about Bond 25 online at the moment; at least the normal amount of curiosity considering we don't have a cast or even a title yet. It'd be worth bearing in mind that interest in MI6 prior to the film's release only really skyrocketed after Cruise's injury and the first trailer. Once we have news and trailers, we'll be able to gauge it better.

    I will say that it's equally premature to write off a $750-800million return when you look at some of the films that have reached that benchmark since the release of SP. If the films is in any way good, I think it'll manage it easily. As you said above, all the Bonds are popular, Craig is no different. The break may have the opposite effect - hype could skyrocket closer to the time.

    I really do get the feeling a slightly negative attitude towards the DC era is colouring your words a bit. I don't mean that confrontationally, it's just an observation. I didn't like SP either.

    Mind you, I don't even know why I'm here in this thread. I don't give a hoot about Box Office anymore. I would certainly say the $1billion is out of the question.

    That's fine, we're all entitled to our own point of view. Although I don't think my view is coloured by my thoughts about Craig, since as I stated earlier, my predictions were very optimistic for SP. You can check the old thread if you like (or perhaps to save time, just ask @DaltonCraig007 for the screen shots)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited January 2019 Posts: 8,216
    Guys, I'm not wanting to let anyone down, but Bond 25 will do well to top 750 million.

    At a complete guess I'd put it around 780 - 90, and that's being generous.

    I think many around here are putting far to much stock into "Craig's last Bond film" being a box office draw. I really don't think that's a factor because Bond has had many popular incarnations in the past and will do in the future. There has never been anyone who has played Wolverine in a big budget movie before other than Hugh Jackman. The role is iconic to him and only him. Same with Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones. Craig is just another actor to play a popular character. If it weren't for the fact that SF made a billion then there would be no reason to believe that Bond 25 has a chance at 800 million. But people didn't go and see SF in droves because they loved Craig they went because they loved Skyfall. Word of mouth for the movie itself is what made it a phenomenon. It was, as others point out, lightening in a bottle. But now apparently not only is it possible to replicate that success, but we should expect it from a film which we don't even know the cast of yet, or a filming location? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, because understandable fans of a franchis want the next film to be good, so they start to convince themselves that it will be good, but there is a danger in building expectations too high.

    In the current climate $750-800million is very feasible. MI managed it. No reason why Bond can't, regardless of the previous films critical reception.

    MI managed it after 6 attempts, and they had to deliver a franchise best effort in order to reach that benchmark. They had to pull out all the stops, and push practical effects to their limits in order to deliver something which won over enough people to cross that line.

    I think when it comes to Bond, Skyfall was a complete one off, and after that people rushed out to see the follow up because they wanted to see what happens next. But I think all the air has been let out of that balloon now, and Bond 25 is still a year from release. All this time passing isn't engendering interest but apathy.

    I say again, I will be impressed if Bond 25 makes 750 US. If it does 800 I will be blown away.

    I think we're certainly coming from different corners of the ring on this one, as I see plenty of positive curiosity about Bond 25 online at the moment; at least the normal amount of curiosity considering we don't have a cast or even a title yet. It'd be worth bearing in mind that interest in MI6 prior to the film's release only really skyrocketed after Cruise's injury and the first trailer. Once we have news and trailers, we'll be able to gauge it better.

    I will say that it's equally premature to write off a $750-800million return when you look at some of the films that have reached that benchmark since the release of SP. If the films is in any way good, I think it'll manage it easily. As you said above, all the Bonds are popular, Craig is no different. The break may have the opposite effect - hype could skyrocket closer to the time.

    I really do get the feeling a slightly negative attitude towards the DC era is colouring your words a bit. I don't mean that confrontationally, it's just an observation. I didn't like SP either.

    Mind you, I don't even know why I'm here in this thread. I don't give a hoot about Box Office anymore. I would certainly say the $1billion is out of the question.

    That's fine, we're all entitled to our own point of view. Although I don't think my view is coloured by my thoughts about Craig, since as I stated earlier, my predictions were very optimistic for SP. You can check the old thread if you like (or perhaps to save time, just ask @DaltonCraig007 for the screen shots)

    No, that's okay. I take your word on that. I retract that part of my statement in that case. I think then we've just got opposing views on what's realistic here - and that's probably down to my circles being far more enthusiastic than yours. That's just how it is!

    Also, thank you @peter
  • Posts: 7,653
    Lets wait for the movie to be made, so far a little is known and it certainly does not work to well for the word in mouth.
  • Posts: 17,756
    I think a lot will come down to marketing. A good marketing period really picking up before Christmas until the film premieres will see to some decent box office numbers, no doubt.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    I think a lot will come down to marketing. A good marketing period really picking up before Christmas until the film premieres will see to some decent box office numbers, no doubt.

    Absolutely. There's serious potential for Bond 25 to have a campaign like no entry we've had before.
  • Posts: 1,680
    It'll have to be like no bond movie we've ever seen before in order to get a billion. This is what have skyfall legs
  • Well....since I started this thread we have moved to our third release date...

    Outside of Bond's typical November release window, the April date is the most BO viable.

    February was a really niche window. It may have seemed odd, but there was a very good chance that Bond could have dominated that month and stayed in theatres longer due to a lack of other big films till the spring.

    Now, Bond 25 is coming out in the spring. This is a big Universal weekend. It's where they have usually slotted in their Fast & Furious films over the last few years. Supposedly, the logic behind delaying the new Fast film was due to the crowded Easter weekend in China (that is a market where Fast dominates).

    Bond 25 will get an early-summer-season box-office boost in April. It's a peak 'on-season' release for a blockbuster. Also, since it took Fast's slot, there is nothing scheduled by the other studios who all wanted to avoid the Vin Diesel behemoth. So bond practically as April 2020 to himself.

    i-dont-have-diesel-memes.jpg
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    They definitely hope for a billion dollar hit. Would be truly awesome.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think the release date change does help the box office potential. I also think Skyfall will remain on top, box office money-wise, bur I'm confident Bond 25 will do great. I think everybody involved will take care to ensure quality every step of the way.

    I know of course they always do (nobody sets out to make a mediocre Bond film), but I sense an extra keenness to this one since it is 99% sure Craig's final outing as Bond (I do think so), will seal his tenure and story arc, and also because of Spectre not being as well perceived.

    I never expected Spectre to equal Skyfall in box office, actually. I think longtime Bond fans have a lot more critical eye for the films, but that the general public sure don't - they want to be entertained. The general public definitely enjoyed Spectre a lot.

    Anyway, I think the date change is a positive (except for our wait) and if they follow this up along later with great marketing, it should be launched spectacularly.
  • Posts: 727
    Will Bond 25 make any serious money in the States again? Dunno.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    if they don't market this film well I would say it will be under a billion they really need to market this thing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Will Bond 25 make any serious money in the States again? Dunno.

    Can’t believe you resurrected this turd of a thread.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I would say sub 750 is very possible judging by the shambles of a press event we just witnessed.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    My prediction: Over 20 000 dollars. Adjusted for inflation.
  • Posts: 7,653
    My prediction is that Donald Trump will speak out or ban the next 007 movie because it is about a British secret agent and not an American agent. So no BO in the Us I am afraid.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    SaintMark wrote: »
    My prediction is that Donald Trump will speak out or ban the next 007 movie because it is about a British secret agent and not an American agent. So no BO in the Us I am afraid.

    @SaintMark get a reality check
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    Not that I give a damn about the numbers either, but surely, ~five years later, B25 will make much more than SP's 800m, and somewhere closer to or exceeding 1bn.
  • Posts: 7,653
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    My prediction is that Donald Trump will speak out or ban the next 007 movie because it is about a British secret agent and not an American agent. So no BO in the Us I am afraid.

    @SaintMark get a reality check

    No just having a laugh about the idea of predicting a box-office number when the production has just started, my suggestion is just a daft as any serious discussion at this time. ;) (your reaction proves it)
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    SaintMark wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    My prediction is that Donald Trump will speak out or ban the next 007 movie because it is about a British secret agent and not an American agent. So no BO in the Us I am afraid.

    @SaintMark get a reality check

    No just having a laugh about the idea of predicting a box-office number when the production has just started, my suggestion is just a daft as any serious discussion at this time. ;) (your reaction proves it)

    @SaintMark ok?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    The US economy is doing well. Would that bump up expectations and numbers.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    The US economy is doing well. Would that bump up expectations and numbers.

    problem is some reason bond doesn't do well enough domestically if they could get those numbers up.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    Bond has done "better" the last two films. I'm talking about dollar-wise bumping the gross overall.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I´ve said it before, but can´t resist doing it again: Do we really care how well the film does at the box office? As long as it´s not a total flop, I couldn´t worry less... The usual repercussion when a Bond film becomes a smash hit financially is that the next film becomes a lazy remake of some sort. What matters to me is that the film is good. If it is, I would not mind if it doesn´t do blockbuster numbers, perhaps I would even prefer it that way.
  • Posts: 17,756
    I just hope the film reaches whatever predicted numbers EON hope for.
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