No Time To Die - Safin's Plot (Spoilers!)

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  • Posts: 15,124
    I don't think you could say "death" is one of the world's problems. Surely death is a unavoidable fatality! Mankind may want to eliminate some causes of unpleasant deaths and unnecessary suffering, but "vanquishing death" is the stuff of scifi and supernatural stories.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Then you passed the test, @Ludovico. No villainy in you.

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Then you passed the test, @Ludovico. No villainy in you.

    I don't know about that but my point is: death in itself is not "a problem", however unpleasant it may be. Unless Safin is a vampire, a Borg or a Sith Lord, I dont see "vanquishing death" as a good motivation.
  • Posts: 316
    The new lair's photo slightly reminds me of the Dr. No ending scene with Bond and Honey
    https://postimg.cc/94nDBv6F
  • Posts: 3,164
    The new lair's photo slightly reminds me of the Dr. No ending scene with Bond and Honey
    https://postimg.cc/94nDBv6F

    Yup...loads of people noticing that

    If I may throw my own 'how Malek can be Dr No' theory into the ring - it'll be Dr Julius Safin, nickname Dr No'. With the 'Julius' and 'No' parts just being an Easter egg throwaway mention, like Blofeld/Ernst were in earlier drafts of Spectre.

    It was only very close to the production start they decided to make a dramatic reveal around the Blofeld name, and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    antovolk wrote: »
    The new lair's photo slightly reminds me of the Dr. No ending scene with Bond and Honey
    https://postimg.cc/94nDBv6F

    Yup...loads of people noticing that

    If I may throw my own 'how Malek can be Dr No' theory into the ring - it'll be Dr Julius Safin, nickname Dr No'. With the 'Julius' and 'No' parts just being an Easter egg throwaway mention, like Blofeld/Ernst were in earlier drafts of Spectre.

    I think this is gonna be how things will turn out. Putting in the mix all those Nō masks can't be a coincidence. His passion or whatever for those masks is the reason why Safin is better known as Dr. Nō. It's just an easter egg like you say, but it's kinda cool that the two most successful actors in the role could share the "same" villain in their first and last outing. I am pretty confident Safin could be a re-imagined Dr. No.
  • Posts: 17,756
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.

    Yeah, Malek even said that he wasn't sure if Safin is really the last name of his character...

    Man your expectations seem so low there's a really good chance you'd be positively surprised! :D
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,756
    matt_u wrote: »
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.

    Yeah, Malek even said that he wasn't sure if Safin is really the last name of his character...

    Man your expectations seem so low there's a really good chance you'd be positively surprised! :D

    Quite telling that quote, that's for sure…

    It's the first Bond film I don't really particularly look forward to, so yes, hopefully! :-)
  • duke_togoduke_togo france
    edited January 2020 Posts: 138

    This all leads to the bigger question of who sent Safin to kill Mr White:

    The real bigger question is why Safin or/and Blofeld wanted to kill Mr White ? Don't forget that in SP Blofeld said to Swann that he came "to her home once to see (her) father" (in the excellent meteorite scene) , Blofeld was probably there with Safin, but why Swann didn't remember Blofeld ?
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,043
    matt_u wrote: »
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.

    Yeah, Malek even said that he wasn't sure if Safin is really the last name of his character...

    Man your expectations seem so low there's a really good chance you'd be positively surprised! :D

    Quite telling that quote, that's for sure…

    It's the first Bond film I don't really particularly look forward to, so yes, hopefully! :-)

    Why have you spent so long in the thread and contributed to it so much, you just can't let it go?

    I'm not being funny but I just don't get it, if I'd given up on the film like you and lets be honest you've been subtlety getting more negative as the process as gone on, yet you still come on here.

    For something you aren't anticipating you certainly talk about a lot, are you suffering for your art?

    I only ask because if I was that down on it as you seem I might contribute the odd thing but the amount of contributions you have made to the NTTD threads doesn't strike me as someone who isn't interested in seeing it.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,756
    Shardlake wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.

    Yeah, Malek even said that he wasn't sure if Safin is really the last name of his character...

    Man your expectations seem so low there's a really good chance you'd be positively surprised! :D

    Quite telling that quote, that's for sure…

    It's the first Bond film I don't really particularly look forward to, so yes, hopefully! :-)

    Why have you spent so long in the thread and contributed to it so much, you just can't let it go?

    I'm not being funny but I just don't get it, if I'd given up on the film like you and lets be honest you've been subtlety getting more negative as the process as gone on, yet you still come on here.

    For something you aren't anticipating you certainly talk about a lot, are you suffering for your art?

    I only ask because if I was that down on it as you seem I might contribute the odd thing but the amount of contributions you have made to the NTTD threads doesn't strike me as someone who isn't interested in seeing it.

    It' been a a gradual thing really. The more we've learned about the film, the more my interest has dropped. When we knew next to nothing but the odd picture, news article etc. and could speculate wildly, I was more engaged with the film, but I just don't feel "it" now that we've got to know more. I know that might sound strange, but that's just the way it is.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    duke_togo wrote: »

    This all leads to the bigger question of who sent Safin to kill Mr White:

    The real bigger question is why Safin or/and Blofeld wanted to kill Mr White ? Don't forget that in SP Blofeld said to Swann that he came "to her home once to see (her) father" (in the excellent meteorite scene) , Blofeld was there with Safin, but why Swann didn't remember Blofeld ? My theory is that like Safin, Blofeld, and probably the other Spectre agents there were also wearing masks ( and perhaps that Safin was actually Blofeld's boss at the time and all of them had Noh masks).

    Wait. Blofeld didn’t want White killed. White worked for him. As White said, he followed Blofeld as long as he could (right after SF).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Shardlake wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    If there's one thing about Safin I don't want to see, it's a "rebooted" villain – even only by name. Unfortunately it looks like this will be the case.

    Yeah, Malek even said that he wasn't sure if Safin is really the last name of his character...

    Man your expectations seem so low there's a really good chance you'd be positively surprised! :D

    Quite telling that quote, that's for sure…

    It's the first Bond film I don't really particularly look forward to, so yes, hopefully! :-)

    Why have you spent so long in the thread and contributed to it so much, you just can't let it go?

    I'm not being funny but I just don't get it, if I'd given up on the film like you and lets be honest you've been subtlety getting more negative as the process as gone on, yet you still come on here.

    For something you aren't anticipating you certainly talk about a lot, are you suffering for your art?

    I only ask because if I was that down on it as you seem I might contribute the odd thing but the amount of contributions you have made to the NTTD threads doesn't strike me as someone who isn't interested in seeing it.

    It' been a a gradual thing really. The more we've learned about the film, the more my interest has dropped. When we knew next to nothing but the odd picture, news article etc. and could speculate wildly, I was more engaged with the film, but I just don't feel "it" now that we've got to know more. I know that might sound strange, but that's just the way it is.

    It doesn't sound strange because I've noticed the tone of your posts from the beginning production, you haven't had your heart in this yet you've contributed to the threads far more than I have and I'm chomping at the bit for this.

    I'm sorry I don't get why you bother to keep coming into it if this is the way you feel.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,157
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    Walecs wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point

    Well they delved into me too with nomi 007 so anything goes and Billie eilish the new Bond singer is a big climate activist and one of her big songs was about just that.
  • Safin wouldn’t be a climate change activist. He’d be the climate change perpetrator. Bond would effectively be the activist.

    Safin’s plot is allegedly to destroy the oceans. That doesn’t sound like an activist
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,418
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point

    Well they delved into me too with nomi 007 so anything goes and Billie eilish the new Bond singer is a big climate activist and one of her big songs was about just that.

    I don’t think having a strong female character is terribly political: that’s just life and it’s what they’ve been doing in these films for the last thirty years.
    Even someone like Trump hasn’t come out and said that he doesn’t believe in women playing a equal role in society (What he actually thinks is more questionable) whereas he is a climate change denier. One is seen as a lot more contentious than the other.
    Safin wouldn’t be a climate change activist. He’d be the climate change perpetrator. Bond would effectively be the activist.

    Safin’s plot is allegedly to destroy the oceans. That doesn’t sound like an activist

    But Safin apparently thinks of himself as some kind of saviour according to the EW chat- would he have some sort of reason for destroying the oceans?
  • Posts: 15,124
    matt_u wrote: »
    duke_togo wrote: »

    This all leads to the bigger question of who sent Safin to kill Mr White:

    The real bigger question is why Safin or/and Blofeld wanted to kill Mr White ? Don't forget that in SP Blofeld said to Swann that he came "to her home once to see (her) father" (in the excellent meteorite scene) , Blofeld was there with Safin, but why Swann didn't remember Blofeld ? My theory is that like Safin, Blofeld, and probably the other Spectre agents there were also wearing masks ( and perhaps that Safin was actually Blofeld's boss at the time and all of them had Noh masks).

    Wait. Blofeld didn’t want White killed. White worked for him. As White said, he followed Blofeld as long as he could (right after SF).

    I was about to say it. And I think it's implied that Madeleine was too young to remember.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    mtm wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point

    Well they delved into me too with nomi 007 so anything goes and Billie eilish the new Bond singer is a big climate activist and one of her big songs was about just that.

    I don’t think having a strong female character is terribly political: that’s just life and it’s what they’ve been doing in these films for the last thirty years.
    Even someone like Trump hasn’t come out and said that he doesn’t believe in women playing a equal role in society (What he actually thinks is more questionable) whereas he is a climate change denier. One is seen as a lot more contentious than the other.
    Safin wouldn’t be a climate change activist. He’d be the climate change perpetrator. Bond would effectively be the activist.

    Safin’s plot is allegedly to destroy the oceans. That doesn’t sound like an activist

    But Safin apparently thinks of himself as some kind of saviour according to the EW chat- would he have some sort of reason for destroying the oceans?

    I'm just pushing the buttons ;) that's all or playing with ya. And what does trump have to do with Bond?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Ludovico wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    duke_togo wrote: »

    This all leads to the bigger question of who sent Safin to kill Mr White:

    The real bigger question is why Safin or/and Blofeld wanted to kill Mr White ? Don't forget that in SP Blofeld said to Swann that he came "to her home once to see (her) father" (in the excellent meteorite scene) , Blofeld was there with Safin, but why Swann didn't remember Blofeld ? My theory is that like Safin, Blofeld, and probably the other Spectre agents there were also wearing masks ( and perhaps that Safin was actually Blofeld's boss at the time and all of them had Noh masks).

    Wait. Blofeld didn’t want White killed. White worked for him. As White said, he followed Blofeld as long as he could (right after SF).

    I was about to say it. And I think it's implied that Madeleine was too young to remember.

    In one of the SP scripts there was even a line by Swann that his father was n. 2...
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 15,124
    Do we know for sure Safin's plan has anything to do with destroying the oceans in any capacity? If so, from where? I haven't spent much time in these here forums lately, sorry if I missed something.

    If it is the case, just an hypothesis : growing harvesting food. The food industry can have massive environmental impacts and yet hunger is a global concern and has been since the dawn of Man. It's a tad too scifi for my taste, but it could work.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know for sure Safin's plan has anything to do with destroying the oceans in any capacity?

    No, just speculation.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Walecs wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point

    It had Oberhauser give the same monologue about Bond being the cuckoo in the nest...only for Bond to the counter that with - *you* were actually adopted too, and your real name is Ernst Blofeld.

    The context of the scene was different though, in the final film there was that torture scene, while in that specific draft it’s a poker game, where Bond does that comeback before going all in.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Do we know for sure Safin's plan has anything to do with destroying the oceans in any capacity? If so, from where? I haven't spent much time in these here forums lately, sorry if I missed something.

    If it is the case, just an hypothesis : growing harvesting food. The food industry can have massive environmental impacts and yet hunger is a global concern and has been since the dawn of Man. It's a tad too scifi for my taste, but it could work.

    Yeah it could be; maybe that algae is a good food source (Soylent green!). But equally it might be a bit close to Greene’s source of power.


  • Convincing video that Rami Malek is indeed Dr. No.

    I agree with pretty much everything he says about Waltz's Blofeld reveal. However, I think that any 'reveal' that Malek is Dr No wouldn't be as egregious.

    With SP, we knew that Blofeld was coming back and we knew from the marketing materials that it probably was Waltz (there was the potential he was a red herring and Andrew Scott was Blofeld - but we all knew they wouldn't do that). However, EON kept denying it unnecessarily.

    With Dr No - it's not a given that he's returning. Therefore, any reappearance (especially if handled well) could be a neat surprise. Something for the audience to experience and could give the film a little added flavour. Maybe he's Dr Julius Safin No?

    It also makes some sense that Craig's final film in his continuity ends with Dr No - who of course was the first villain in the original continuity. It feels very akin to Eon's previous thinking on the Craig era....don't you think.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343


    Convincing video that Rami Malek is indeed Dr. No.

    It also makes some sense that Craig's final film in his continuity ends with Dr No - who of course was the first villain in the original continuity. It feels very akin to Eon's previous thinking on the Craig era....don't you think.

    I said exactly the same thing yesterday. Would be cool. Anyway @antovolk yesterday theorized a similar explanation: Dr. Julius Safin, nicknamed Dr. No. This nickname would make sense since his obsession with No masks.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    antovolk wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    and the way the latest leaked script had it was actually kinda brilliant...

    What was it like?
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Now Malek says that the villain wants to save the world and has found some kind of answer to one of the biggest problems. Isn't one of the biggest problems climate change?

    Not according to a certain member on these boards. I wonder how they're gonna react when they've seen the movie :))

    But seriously though, climate change is world's biggest problem right now and Malek dealing with it has been rumored for a while. It would also be a nice nod to Quantum of Solace.

    Other users have speculated that Malek is dealing with cloning and the biggest problem would be death but I'm more inclined toward the former - if anything because if I were to describe death I would call it the most ancient problem rather than the biggest.

    Would Eon risk bad publicity from depicting a climate change activist as a baddie? I tend to think they might steer clear of that: they don’t tend to get too political and that subject has been very politicised recently.


    Good point

    It had Oberhauser give the same monologue about Bond being the cuckoo in the nest...only for Bond to the counter that with - *you* were actually adopted too, and your real name is Ernst Blofeld.

    The context of the scene was different though, in the final film there was that torture scene, while in that specific draft it’s a poker game, where Bond does that comeback before going all in.

    Thank you. That's indeed a bit better than what we got.
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