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Agreed. For me at least, Newman was a breath of fresh air after enduring a decade of Arnold's pastiche. I don't even think Arnold did that great of a job recreating the Barry sound, no matter how many wah-wah trumpets he threw in.
Heck, you can hear a Weh WAH WAHHHHH every 30 seconds in this track.
- George Martin
- Marvin Hamlisch
- Bill Conti
- Michel Legrand (Yes, I. Love. His. Score. for NSNA :-P)
- Michael Kamen
- Eric Serra, and indeed....
- Thomas Newman
It's too easy for me to say "that one knows the Bond feeling and the other one doesn't". It's much mure opaque for me. Every composer gave his own interpretation to the character James Bond. That in itself fascinates me; not one composer who perfectly copies the Barry-stuff.
I try not to use this "Bond brandmark" as the sole element of reviewing an upcoming Bond-score. Because then we might all get disappointed. Hence I am looking forward to what Dan Romer brings to the franchise, regardless if it's Bond-esque or not :-).
It’s not about sounding like Barry, but embracing the essence of what makes a Bond score tick. A lot of the time it’s about melody and atmosphere, musical motifs that bring the picture together. Those outside Barry did great work, Martin in particular for me. Even Serra gave GE something recognisable and distinctive. Newman’s scores just don’t feel cohesively ‘whole’ to me, more just disparate tracks (some of them greatly listenable, no doubt about that).
Perhaps one of the reasons why Newman always makes my skin crawl in a positive way, is because I have always been a fan of electronic music :-).
One track I am listening atm is for instance this one (would love to hear it in a Bond-film):
And then afterwards I listen to this (which I also love and which adds my understanding of what is typical Bond-ian):
Anyway, looking at the discography of Dan Romer...…...I think he will be a bit of a mix between Alan Silvestri, David Arnold and Thomas Newman.
Absolutely: and class is the word. Newman's scores feel rich and sophisticated, just like the world of James Bond should. Arnold's scores are fun, but they're thin and a bit cheap-feeling.
"Rich and sophisticated"
"Thin and a bit cheap-feeling"
Just like anyone can use buzzwords to dismiss one over the other.
But I agree with you about Newman, Arnold and Romer. I think he'll do fine, personally.
I flip between Martin and Arnold depending on the day of the week.
Like you said, we listened to different soundtracks then.
Exactly! One trick pony, yet listening to many here, you'd think he was better than John Barry.
I think any new composer needs to incorporate a classic Bond sound, but not necessarily a Barry clone. Something that sounds modern but with a sixties spy flavour (especially for a sneaky Bond moment). At least some tracks to be largely orchestral. Create their own secondary theme. Use the song a few times, not just a straight instrumental take. Ambient moments are fine but not a whole movie of noodling.
Yep; that's what those sound like to me. Not quite sure what your point was other than to prove mine! :) Listen to the lovely layering in that Newman one.
Let me know when Arnold gets nominated for some Oscars... or indeed gets any movie work ;) That's a bit mean; I like Arnold's stuff as much as the next fan, but there's an extra dimension to Newman's stuff which I just don't find to be there in Arnold's.
I don't think he ever really did any Barry pastiche, apart from when he took little bits and pieces like the OHMSS and FRWL nods in stuff like White Knight.
The only time I thought he was really going for a Barry sound was Vesper's theme in Casino Royale; the entrance into Venice is as Barry as he got.
Really? You think that proves your point? Yikes.
The Newman track is dull as dishwater. The "lovely layering", as you say, is just pads and looped rhythms of that fail to generate any peril or excitement whatsoever. And that scene badly needed peril and excitement. It sounds like something a college graduate composer would put together for a low budget Bond knockoff. The Arnold track, by comparison, has weight and momentum to it, using the power of the orchestra to actually enhance its accompanying scene.
Correct, that is a bit mean, but more importantly has echoes of the broken records of overreaching, desperate criticism that have been spouted time and time again as if it's somehow indicative of the quality of the work. So indeed, let me know when there's actually something said that doesn't amount to "it looks like he doesn't get hired anymore, therefore he is bad". ;)
Overall though, as @jake24 said above, they both had merits. Newman did quite well in the romantic/ambient cues. Those have always been the types of cues that "won him Oscars" as well as Grammys (a music award that interestingly Mr. Arnold also has a couple of!) but his action music is so very bland. It's monotonous and plodding and feels thrown together bar one or two cues.
But, he did give us Severine, so credit where credit is due.
I hope Romer distinguishes himself from Newman's last two scores big time. SP, again, had a few good cues but was ultimately stale by film's end. The lack of seemingly super-important Oscar recognition for it would prove that! :)
It's not bad at all. It's hard to know what to expect with Romer, which makes it interesting.
I think you're after a nasty aggressive argument: not interested, sorry. When you start dismissing layering as being 'just' instrumentation, as if all music isn't basically that, then I know you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. If you want to tone it down a bit, lose the attempts to patronise etc. then I'd be happy to talk about this in a civilised way. We're just talking about Bond music; it should be fun- not Brexit.
"Grand Bazaar, Istanbul" is one of the exceptions, I would say. Along with "She's Mine".
"The Bloody Shot" though is the definition of cheap sounding to me. It always sounded Zimmer-lite in its progressions and the pad and drum work reminds me of Die Another Day, which is my least favourite Arnold score by a mile.
I share your love for the "GoldenEye Overture" though, at least! ;)
I think you're being a tad sensitive here, considering "Let me know when Arnold gets nominated for some Oscars.....or indeed gets any movie work ;)" is about as patronising as it gets in this context. Please, don't be a hypocrite. We weren't talking about instrumentation as a concept though. We were countering about which were rich and which sounded cheap. And pads and loops over what sounds like a very small string section sounds very cheap to me in comparison with the weight of the orchestra being heard in the Arnold cue. Both examples of "just instrumentation, as if all music isn't basically that", but one is far superior to the other in what it aims to do, and it isn't Newman's imo.
I'm having fun criticising your criticisms - both are being put out in good faith.
And yet, oft repeated and always as if we've never heard it before.
Funny, DAD for me is one of his better efforts. But then again I think Madonna's song is a lot better than people (read: Bond fans) give it credit.
Different strokes, as they say!
There's film version mixes of cues from DAD out there somewhere that I hope are released eventually. Same cues, just minus the techno stuff. Would really like to hear them as they are in the film.
They are a feature on the album alright, but it is a film score after all and if that were a fair comparison, the techno would be in the film mix too. So it is not that simple and you know it. ;)