NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Also I don't expect the actors' comments are directed to folks who know Bond films well. They're to the larger audience and yes, by design it becomes repetitive over the years.

  • The problem with Dan Romer is that he is new, and for many Bond fans (especially here), something new and potentially different must always be treated with suspicion. Dan Romer is not John Barry, David Arnold is not John Barry, only John Barry is John Barry, and he's dead.

    People hated Arnold when he first arrived on the scene, then he stuck around for over a decade, and suddenly, his sound was the Bond sound. Like it or not. There is no point in taking a well-liked composer with their own way of doing things and then making them copy someone else's work.

    James Bond is bigger than any one actor, director, or yes, composer. That's the beauty of it compared to every other major franchise, there is no one house-style that the filmmakers cannot deviate from. Dr. No, The Spy Who Loved Me, and Casino Royale are all vastly different movies but they are all still Bond.

    If you want a Bond movie with a Sean Connery-like lead and a score that sounds like John Barry, then you're in luck because we have about six of those, stretching from 1962 to 1971 (with a short break), and the best part is that they are the real thing, no exact duplicates required.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    The problem with Dan Romer is that he is new, and for many Bond fans (especially here), something new and potentially different must always be treated with suspicion. Dan Romer is not John Barry, David Arnold is not John Barry, only John Barry is John Barry, and he's dead.

    People hated Arnold when he first arrived on the scene, then he stuck around for over a decade, and suddenly, his sound was the Bond sound. Like it or not. There is no point in taking a well-liked composer with their own way of doing things and then making them copy someone else's work.

    James Bond is bigger than any one actor, director, or yes, composer. That's the beauty of it compared to every other major franchise, there is no one house-style that the filmmakers cannot deviate from. Dr. No, The Spy Who Loved Me, and Casino Royale are all vastly different movies but they are all still Bond.

    If you want a Bond movie with a Sean Connery-like lead and a score that sounds like John Barry, then you're in luck because we have about six of those, stretching from 1962 to 1971 (with a short break), and the best part is that they are the real thing, no exact duplicates required.

    The answer lies somewhere in between. Using LIVE AND LET DIE as an example; George Martin didn't copy Barry in anything except (maybe!) structure, yet LALD is still unmistakably a Bond score, with a perfectly fitting adaptation of the Bond theme and some wonderful uses of the title song throughout. Stylistically, however, LALD is little like the previous Barry scores.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 440

    The answer lies somewhere in between. Using LIVE AND LET DIE as an example; George Martin didn't copy Barry in anything except (maybe!) structure, yet LALD is still unmistakably a Bond score, with a perfectly fitting adaptation of the Bond theme and some wonderful uses of the title song throughout. Stylistically, however, LALD is little like the previous Barry scores.

    I think you might be slightly missing my point, that in my opinion, there is no "answer" of any kind. It's all down to personal taste and how long the composer sticks around for. If Éric Serra had worked on the Bond films for 11 years, then by the time Casino Royale came out, his style would have been the "Bond sound" to the general public.

    LALD sounds unmistakably like a Bond score to you, likely because it has been around for nearly half a century, it's not something objectively embedded within the very DNA of LALD. I fully agree with you about the usage of the title song in the score itself, though.

    That to me, has been the biggest failing of pretty much every Bond score post-1987, even the ones I like. If a movie is going to reveal its title and or plot/theme in a 3-5 minute long musical number in the first act, that music had better damn well be tied into the fabric of the rest of the movie in some way.

    Though I can't really blame any of the composers since most of the songs are chosen too late to properly work the score around them. And I understand why award-winning composers like Newman might feel a bit offended at being told to incorporate someone else's music into their own at the last second.

    :Edit: I should of course stress, that this doesn't "ruin" any of the post-1987 scores for me, and I actually like a great deal of them, it's just a minor element that bothers me. Luckily, most of them manage to find some other main theme to integrate into the score, it's just a pity it couldn't be the actual main theme.
  • Posts: 4,044
    I personally think George Martin’s score is very much embedded in LALD.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Though I can't really blame any of the composers since most of the songs are chosen too late to properly work the score around them. And I understand why award-winning composers like Newman might feel a bit offended at being told to incorporate someone else's music into their own at the last second.

    Writing's on the Wall was recorded on January, I'd argue that 9 months is more than enough time. So no, Newman is not justified AT ALL.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    I think Skyfall has the best score outside of Barry in the whole series. Absolutely fantastic achievement by Thomas Newman. Everyone has their own opinion with regards to Bond. I utterly detest Die Another Day as a whole, and some folk rate it highly. It's Bond for mouth breathers. Mind boggling to me. Different strokes for different folks...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,205
    vzok wrote: »
    I personally think George Martin’s score is very much embedded in LALD.

    So would I. I think there certainly is an answer, and it's that which has set Bond scores apart from the pack over the years.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,179
    Walecs wrote: »
    Though I can't really blame any of the composers since most of the songs are chosen too late to properly work the score around them. And I understand why award-winning composers like Newman might feel a bit offended at being told to incorporate someone else's music into their own at the last second.

    Writing's on the Wall was recorded on January, I'd argue that 9 months is more than enough time. So no, Newman is not justified AT ALL.

    I’d pin that more on Mendes and EON. When SF was recorded, there originally was no instrumental of Adele’s song until EON requested it at the last minute. If they felt it was important to have the Sam Smith song interwoven throughout the score they should have requested that he do that instead of only do it for one scene. I think the truth of the matter is that having the song be interwoven throughout the film hasn’t been a priority for EON since LTK, so this isn’t an issue exclusive to Newman. David Arnold was the only one to go the extra mile, and he only really did that in three of his scores.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I think Skyfall has the best score outside of Barry in the whole series. Absolutely fantastic achievement by Thomas Newman. Everyone has their own opinion with regards to Bond. I utterly detest Die Another Day as a whole, and some folk rate it highly. It's Bond for mouth breathers. Mind boggling to me. Different strokes for different folks...

    At least Arnold made a different score for DAD instead of recycling half of his previous score.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Walecs wrote: »
    I think Skyfall has the best score outside of Barry in the whole series. Absolutely fantastic achievement by Thomas Newman. Everyone has their own opinion with regards to Bond. I utterly detest Die Another Day as a whole, and some folk rate it highly. It's Bond for mouth breathers. Mind boggling to me. Different strokes for different folks...

    At least Arnold made a different score for DAD instead of recycling half of his previous score.

    That wasn’t Newman’s fault. Sam Mendes and Lee Smith took recording sessions for SF and remixed them into the film as a temp score and liked them so much Mendes decided to keep them in.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 440
    Walecs wrote: »
    I think Skyfall has the best score outside of Barry in the whole series. Absolutely fantastic achievement by Thomas Newman. Everyone has their own opinion with regards to Bond. I utterly detest Die Another Day as a whole, and some folk rate it highly. It's Bond for mouth breathers. Mind boggling to me. Different strokes for different folks...

    At least Arnold made a different score for DAD instead of recycling half of his previous score.

    That wasn’t Newman’s fault. Sam Mendes and Lee Smith took recording sessions for SF and remixed them into the film as a temp score and liked them so much Mendes decided to keep them in.

    Yeah, I always find it such a pity that Newman was never allowed to fully explore what he could do with the Bond sound. Barry and Arnold were allowed to grow and evolve with each subsequent score they did, while Newman was quite literally told to just make Skyfall 2.0. Sort of sums up a lot the problems with SP tbh.

    :Edit: The saddest thing we lost out on with Newman was a chance for him to move beyond the ambience heavy style of Skyfall. His playful percussion-heavy tracks with strange musical instruments for films like Jarhead and Lemony Snicket proved he could have done so much more.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    I think some of the recycling works in context with certain scenes like Judi Dench M’s theme reprising for her brief video appearance. But other times like reusing “Someone Usually Dies” during a Nine Eyes voting session is kind of nonsensical.
  • Who else saw this on Twitter....



    The source seems very dodgy, but I wish this is true.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Who else saw this on Twitter....



    The source seems very dodgy, but I wish this is true.

    I second this-- if true, Holy S***Balls!!!
  • Posts: 17,744
    Can't say I've even heard of this Nicolas Britell.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Succession TV show-- listen to that theme! And Oscar winning film, MOONLIGHT!! Beautiful, layered MUSIC (not sound effects, called music)
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 12,462
    NTTD may not be a usual case (news has been particularly sparse), but when is a composer usually announced for a Bond film (how long before the release)?
  • Posts: 17,744
    peter wrote: »
    Succession TV show-- listen to that theme! And Oscar winning film, MOONLIGHT!! Beautiful, layered MUSIC (not sound effects, called music)

    Layered music, that's…music to my ears! Will have to check out his work :-)
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited November 2019 Posts: 3,157
    Walecs wrote: »
    I think Skyfall has the best score outside of Barry in the whole series. Absolutely fantastic achievement by Thomas Newman. Everyone has their own opinion with regards to Bond. I utterly detest Die Another Day as a whole, and some folk rate it highly. It's Bond for mouth breathers. Mind boggling to me. Different strokes for different folks...

    At least Arnold made a different score for DAD instead of recycling half of his previous score.

    That wasn’t Newman’s fault. Sam Mendes and Lee Smith took recording sessions for SF and remixed them into the film as a temp score and liked them so much Mendes decided to keep them in.

    I didn't mean to implay that I blamed Newman for that (I'm aware of Mendes and Smith being responsible), just that DrClatterhand should avoid insulting people for having different tastes as if Arnold was a hack.
    Who else saw this on Twitter....



    The source seems very dodgy, but I wish this is true.

    They could at least get the name right.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    NTTD may not be a usual case (news has been particularly sparse), but when is a composer usually announced for a Bond film (how long before the release)?

    Newman was announced around January 2012 for SF (I think) and on 4th December 2014 for SP (same day as the press conference).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    After hearing this, I’m open to Britell if he’s been picked.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    After hearing this, I’m open to Britell if he’s been picked.


    That's actually pretty sexy. Haven't seen the show, but yet I already know what kind of show it is by the main theme.
  • And don't forget his score for If Beale Street Could Talk, which is fantastic

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Those are actually good bits of music; I wouldn't mind Britell getting a shot at Bond. That is, if he can also do action music well.
  • Posts: 5,767
    I don´t want to chime in on a fishy rumour based on a twit by a guy I know nothing about who claims he has heard that this or that will happen.

    But that Britell guy seems amazing. Love those two tracks. Of course, for a feature film a composer has to be able to not only come up with a few amazing tracks, but he has to be able to keep up the level for two hours, i.e. in the case of a Bond film, for the duration of 60-100 min of music. I don´t insist on action scenes getting wild musical cues, I thought John Woo underlaying big caliber mayhem with classical music worked wonderfully. So I wouldn´t be averse if the composer, and at this moment I guess it´s still safest to say that´s Dan Romer, produced not very loud cues for NTTD. But I must insist on continuous quality. Every minute of music must be worth listening to, unless it´s just the occasional generic hum for a minute, I´m willing to tolerate that as soundscape.

  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,185
    Much better choice, if true. Simply because he knows how to do proper orchestration.
    Though this channel has three followers and also claims Safin is a rebooted Dr No, so....

    I wasn't conciously aware of him but like what i've been hearing on spotify so far. Very good versatility and depth.
    And having been nominatrd for an Oscar twice already, he would fit in much better with this production Team.

    Edit: This stuff is orgasmic


    And the Piano Version, oh my god
    They need to hire him right now.
  • Posts: 130
    Who else saw this on Twitter....



    The source seems very dodgy, but I wish this is true.

    Calling this a dodgy source is an understatement. I think this might be wishful thinking on our part.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    xolani wrote: »
    Who else saw this on Twitter....



    The source seems very dodgy, but I wish this is true.

    Calling this a dodgy source is an understatement. I think this might be wishful thinking on our part.

    You just want the job yourself, but we're not falling for it a third time...

    I love your SF score though, all good ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    I've heard Beale Street and it's lovely; he's much more the sort I'd hope for but this is hard to believe at the moment.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 233
    Nicolas Britell is a really good composer - arguably a neater fit for Bond than Romer - an interesting choice for sure. But there is no real credible source/evidence to suggest this will happen though (tweet is also deleted)? One thing that excited me about Dan Romer (and it was the same when Daniel Craig was announced) - is that this is an unconventional choice - which usually results in (artistically speaking) having something to prove and hopefully a stronger end result.
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