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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,333
    Must’ve been a very expensive fare!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,213
    Gerard wrote: »
    Ah yes, the "Voitures sans Permis". They do the job, but when you're in a real car and stuck behind one of them in the small, narrow, zigzaging country roads of France... The thing worst than that are farm tractors.

    Now, some cars I dont see quite often, but recently... Well, it was a surprise to find a Dodge (I don't know the model, though) parked near the local art center. And in Paris, I saw an old-timer Rolls (didn't get the model either), a Jaguar S-Type, and this :

    2019_LEVC_TX_Vista_Comfort_Plus_1.5.jpg

    Yup, a LEVC TX. First time I saw one of these, but for a little while, I was wondering what it was doing so far from London.

    Wel lyou can buy them anywhere. A few are used here as taxi's as well, or wedding cars. They are quite spacious after all.


    And no, I don't think self-driving cars are a good idea. That's like going to an expensive restaurant and letting the waiter eat your food.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,333
    It’s not like that, no. You still get the chance to drive them yourself, or much like your current car, you can choose to be a passenger in it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,213
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s not like that, no. You still get the chance to drive them yourself, or much like your current car, you can choose to be a passenger in it.

    For how long? Tesla's already have the power to override their driver's choices. You're not in control anymore (this comes from a guy who'll never use his cruise control!)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.
  • MartinBondMartinBond Trying not to muck it up again
    Posts: 860
    My cruise control is probably my most-used option on my car, I couldn't live without anymore. Makes for much more relaxing drives and also keeps my fuel consumption somewhat in check.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited March 2021 Posts: 2,515
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s not like that, no. You still get the chance to drive them yourself, or much like your current car, you can choose to be a passenger in it.

    I wouldn't feel comfortable in a self-driving car because computers and sensors are not 100 % reliable.

    As soon as a self-driving car kills someone , which has already happened, there will be lawsuits galore and they will be banned again.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54175359#:~:text=The back-up driver of,Tempe, Arizona, in 2018.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s not like that, no. You still get the chance to drive them yourself, or much like your current car, you can choose to be a passenger in it.

    I wouldn't feel comfortable in a self-driving car because computers and sensors are not 100 % reliable.

    Humans certainly aren’t and I bet you’ve been driven by them! :)
    MartinBond wrote: »
    My cruise control is probably my most-used option on my car, I couldn't live without anymore. Makes for much more relaxing drives and also keeps my fuel consumption somewhat in check.

    Yes it’s really good for fuel consumption. My previous Audi didn’t have it and I really missed it on long motorway drives: it actually got slightly uncomfortable keeping my leg on the accelerator due to the low driving position and when I got the turbo updated it meant the throttle became more sensitive at speed: it would boost with the slightest touch. Which was a lot of fun but probably not the most economical! :)
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited March 2021 Posts: 2,515
    Aston Martin Vantage confirmed as official 2021 Formula One safety car
    The V8-powered sports car will serve alongside Aston Martin's DBX SUV, as well as the existing Mercedes-AMG.
    qro5idihguycgqdwo0oc.jpg
    hzxgoirliv7a22flsbhi.jpg
    https://www.caradvice.com.au/931644/aston-martin-vantage-confirmed-as-official-2021-formula-one-safety-car/
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    Aston Martin’s return to F1 will benefit future models
    aston-martin-cognizant-formula-one-team_amr21_04.jpg?width=640
    Aston Martin will return to Formula 1 for the first time in more than 60 years and it plans to transfer technology from the highest level of motorsport to its upcoming hypercars and electrified vehicles.
    https://www.motoring.com.au/aston-martins-return-to-f1-will-benefit-future-models-128810/
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,333
    Aston Martin Vantage confirmed as official 2021 Formula One safety car
    The V8-powered sports car will serve alongside Aston Martin's DBX SUV, as well as the existing Mercedes-AMG.
    qro5idihguycgqdwo0oc.jpg
    hzxgoirliv7a22flsbhi.jpg
    https://www.caradvice.com.au/931644/aston-martin-vantage-confirmed-as-official-2021-formula-one-safety-car/

    I didn't know that, that's a bit of a coup for them. That Vantage does look good!
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    mtm wrote: »
    Aston Martin Vantage confirmed as official 2021 Formula One safety car
    The V8-powered sports car will serve alongside Aston Martin's DBX SUV, as well as the existing Mercedes-AMG.
    qro5idihguycgqdwo0oc.jpg
    hzxgoirliv7a22flsbhi.jpg
    https://www.caradvice.com.au/931644/aston-martin-vantage-confirmed-as-official-2021-formula-one-safety-car/

    I didn't know that, that's a bit of a coup for them. That Vantage does look good!

    I wonder if bond will drive a british racing green aston ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    That's not BRG; I don't know if Astons really come in it nowadays. They have their own distinctive shade of green, although I would say that's not quite it either.

    This used to be the Aston green:
    ASTON-MARTIN-DB-2-4-MKIII.34534t.jpg
    am_db3s_7498_4.jpg

    These racing cars now often tweak their colours to appear stronger on TV. I used to do graphics work for McLaren Mercedes a few years back, and although their brand had a silver and red look, the red was actually more of a very hot, almost fluorescent pink. It was a nightmare to reproduce as you needed a very specific set of (expensive) inks. So it looks like Aston now have a new version of their historic green.

  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited March 2021 Posts: 2,515
    mtm wrote: »
    That's not BRG; I don't know if Astons really come in it nowadays. They have their own distinctive shade of green, although I would say that's not quite it either.

    This used to be the Aston green:
    ASTON-MARTIN-DB-2-4-MKIII.34534t.jpg
    am_db3s_7498_4.jpg

    These racing cars now often tweak their colours to appear stronger on TV. I used to do graphics work for McLaren Mercedes a few years back, and although their brand had a silver and red look, the red was actually more of a very hot, almost fluorescent pink. It was a nightmare to reproduce as you needed a very specific set of (expensive) inks. So it looks like Aston now have a new version of their historic green.

    Bond might be driving a double green machine (color and zero emission) in the next film ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,333
    Seems a pretty strong chance his next motor will be a hybrid at least as that's what's happening. Most of the top end ones are incredibly powerful so I'm sure he won't complain! :)
  • Posts: 2,914
    Proof that good looks will only get you so far
    The Clarkson Review: Jaguar F-type


    By Jeremy Clarkson (Sunday Times, March 7)

    So, Jaguar has announced that it's to abandon internal combustion entirely and become all-electric in just four years' time. You probably think that this is a foolish plan, dreamt up by a desperate management team who've tried everything else, and you'd probably expect me to agree with you. But I don't.

    Obviously, today, there are some deeply troubling issues with electric cars because while the energy is clean(ish), the manufacturing process involves clouds of sulphur oxides, poisoned rivers, acid rain and a hefty dollop of child slave labour. Anyone who's seen those pictures of five-year-old kids mining the cobalt for batteries is not going to be first in line for an electric car, that's for damn sure.

    The next problem is reliability. Look at the online message boards about electric car ownership and it's like you're reading the annual newsletter of the Maserati Khamsin owners' club. So far as I can see, everyone arrives at their destination on a tow truck and the worst offender, it seems, is Jaguar, whose battery-powered I-Pace is all over the place.

    Let's be honest, though. This will be addressed when electric cars become the norm. Mass production always irons out quality problems. And so will the social issues, because woke people are not going to spend all week pulling down statues and then go out at the weekend in a car that was made using slavery. They will insist that instead it's made from ethically sourced, nuclear-free peace seeds and they will get their way.

    So, the electric Jaguars that are heading on to the market in the next four years should be clean, morally upright and reliable.

    And there's more. Think of a Series 3 Jag with pepperpot alloys and twin fuel tanks. Think of Inspector Morse, and Steed from The Avengers. Think of the V12 in the XJS and the feline grace of the early XKs. Think of the big silence and effortless power. It's almost as though electric propulsion was invented for cars like this.

    The problem is that when you mention Jaguar, most people think of the E-type, a sporty and rorty thing with a priapic bonnet and David Niven at the wheel, on his way to some racy lunch for cads in the south of France. And no one would want an electric E-type, apart from Meghan and Harry Markle, of course, who used one to leave the scene of their wedding.

    Even Jaguar itself is consumed with this E-type obsession. It thinks that because of this it is a sports car maker and must therefore make sporty cars that bellow and shout and crash through potholes as if they're running on the suspension system from a skateboard. It's the main reason why Jaguar is in the pickle it's in now. Because it's trying to be something it isn't.

    Which brings me on to the supercharged, all-wheel drive V8 F-type that I've been driving recently.

    This car is completely wrong. It was designed to sit in the range underneath the larger and smoother XKR and XKR-S but then, when the XK models were dropped, Jaguar simply filled the gap by increasing the F-type prices. Ever since it's been way more expensive than it should be.

    I guess that Jaguar was hoping that because it was an F-type, one along the alphabet from an E-type, people would pay up without thinking. But they didn't. They either thought that for a tiny bit more they could have an Aston Martin Vantage, or for an awful lot less they could have a Ford Mustang.

    And why does it have a V8 under the bonnet, because it's hard to think of anything quite so unJaguarish. Back in the Eighties Jaguar's engineers were so nervous that their bosses would make them use Rover's inherently lumpy V8, they deliberately designed the engine bay of the then new XJ40 to be so narrow it wouldn't fit. They knew then that Jaguar was famed for its silky V12s or its sewing-machine-smooth straight sixes, and I still know it now.

    An F-type sounds yobbish when it goes by. It's a great noise, for sure, and it'd be even better if it was audible in the cockpit, but Jags are for gentlemen rogues like Terry-Thomas and Patrick Stewart, not louts. The soundtrack therefore is as inappropriate as a regal fart.

    The performance isn't quite right either. I'm not suggesting it's a slow car but when you hear that the engine develops 567 brake horsepowers and 516 torques, you expect starship get up and go. And it never really delivers.

    And then there's the comfort. Or rather, there isn't. Whoever tuned the suspension in the F-type must be shown the door before the new electric cars are developed because Jag owners want a car to take them to the opera. They don't need something set up so it can drift round empty supermarket car parks late on a Saturday night.

    And finally there's the completely lacklustre interior. Where's the deep lambs wool carpeting and the illuminated pencil tray? Where's the carefully underplayed charm? And why is the steering wheel so enormous?

    This is a car, then, designed as a sort of homage to the E-type, which, for Jaguar, was pretty much a one-off. It's Paul McCartney's "Wonderful Christmastime" or Chuck Berry's "My Ding-a-Ling." And neither of them ever felt the need to recreate these musical oxbow lakes.

    All that being said, however, the F-type is an extremely likeable car. Unlike the steering wheel, it's unusually small but it's not dainty. There's aggression in those haunches but it looks controlled. And the bonnet's long without being like the Lone Ranger's codpiece. It is, in short, one of the best-looking cars on sale today.

    This means it gives "good shop window". If you can find a window that hasn't been boarded up, it looks good in the reflection and that makes you feel good, and a car that makes you feel good is halfway there. Look at it this way: think of all the really good-looking girls you've ever met. Right, and how many of them don't you like?

    Jaguar bosses are saying that in their all-electric future there will probably be no room for sports cars. That makes sense because Jaguar is not a sports car brand. But I do believe there is room for a coupé or a convertible that looks as good as the F-type but that has soft, forgiving suspension, seats that make you go "aah" when you sit in them and propulsion as silent as a nuclear submarine's. I even have a name for such a thing. The G-type. Although G-spot would be nearer the mark.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Couldn't help himself with that last sentence, huh?
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    Enjoyable review!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,333
    Jesus, he is increasingly unpleasant. Do the newspapers actually have a policy that no article can be printed without a distainful mention of Harry & Meghan at the moment or something?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,213
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that. I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    That Harry and Meagan comment is idiotic. Wait for something to happen to them and suddenly its all England's rose all over again.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.

    Oh like radar detection? Lots of cars do that now. I don’t see the issue, it’s not like it’s swerving or anything.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that.

    That’s a worrying way to look at it. Motorways aren’t racetracks. I suspect my car is probably sportier than yours as it’s an actual sportscar, maybe quicker too as Alfas aren’t really the quickest (got rid of mine as it just didn’t have the go I wanted) but I don’t need to use the power or the handling all of the time, especially not on motorways.

    Funnily enough my Alfa had a fairly terrifying braking system where it would suddenly and jerkily apply the brakes by itself if it detected the car getting in trouble. It cut in a couple of times (once when the car was full of people and the other was when I had a puncture and didn’t realise and the dynamics confused the car)- so I’d probably steer clear of them if you don’t like the idea of self-braking cars! :D
    I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    It’s not taking over. It’s just doing what you set it to do.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    Volkswagen ID.4 review

    Cheap interior.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    Infotainment systems are the driver's way to interact with the car. For me, they need to be "right" to get me interested in the car. Importantly, essential controls (radio on/off/mute, station change, climate controls) should be controlled by physical switches and not hidden in sub menues. The user interface and its software must be one of the cheaper elements of the ID.4, so I simply cannot understand why VW has no interest to get this right. Perhaps Apple should get into this market and design user interfaces for cars.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    I don't get the idea of touchscreen anything to control cars: you need to be able to do it by feel alone, surely? Although I'm not averse to a good voice control system.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,213
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.

    Oh like radar detection? Lots of cars do that now. I don’t see the issue, it’s not like it’s swerving or anything.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that.

    That’s a worrying way to look at it. Motorways aren’t racetracks. I suspect my car is probably sportier than yours as it’s an actual sportscar, maybe quicker too as Alfas aren’t really the quickest (got rid of mine as it just didn’t have the go I wanted) but I don’t need to use the power or the handling all of the time, especially not on motorways.

    Funnily enough my Alfa had a fairly terrifying braking system where it would suddenly and jerkily apply the brakes by itself if it detected the car getting in trouble. It cut in a couple of times (once when the car was full of people and the other was when I had a puncture and didn’t realise and the dynamics confused the car)- so I’d probably steer clear of them if you don’t like the idea of self-braking cars! :D
    I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    It’s not taking over. It’s just doing what you set it to do.

    Well I'm not asking you to feel the same way about cars as I do, I'm just commenting my thoughts. And I wasn't talking about racing, but if I can shave off an hour of traveling time by going a bit faster than the rest I don't see what the problem is. I don't like machines getting the upper hand in decision making in traffic. That has something to do with the way I drive, always focussed on the road and my surroundings. It's what makes driving fun. I can see I'm in the minority on the road, with all those people hanging backwards, palying with their phones and whatnot. That's up to them and I'm glad cars like Teslas take their hands off the wheel as they're more dangerous driving themselves than if the machine does it for them. But personally I don't like it. Cruise control to my mind is another gimmick to make you too relaxed behind the wheel. I don't want to steer the car, I want to drive it.

    And frankly I don't care how fast someone's car is, I love driving mine and I've driven plenty that were faster but far less fun. Audi's, in example, are the summum of boredom when it comes to driving. BMW's are far better, but can't tip to the fun factor that Alfa's have. It's a pity yours had a malfunction, but that's alfa as well. It comes with the package, or the soul of the car.

    I used to have a Golf II that certainly wasn't fast, but hell it was a blast to throw around an iced over parking lot, or make a handbrake turn. The later models just didn't have that anymore.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.

    Oh like radar detection? Lots of cars do that now. I don’t see the issue, it’s not like it’s swerving or anything.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that.

    That’s a worrying way to look at it. Motorways aren’t racetracks. I suspect my car is probably sportier than yours as it’s an actual sportscar, maybe quicker too as Alfas aren’t really the quickest (got rid of mine as it just didn’t have the go I wanted) but I don’t need to use the power or the handling all of the time, especially not on motorways.

    Funnily enough my Alfa had a fairly terrifying braking system where it would suddenly and jerkily apply the brakes by itself if it detected the car getting in trouble. It cut in a couple of times (once when the car was full of people and the other was when I had a puncture and didn’t realise and the dynamics confused the car)- so I’d probably steer clear of them if you don’t like the idea of self-braking cars! :D
    I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    It’s not taking over. It’s just doing what you set it to do.

    Well I'm not asking you to feel the same way about cars as I do, I'm just commenting my thoughts. And I wasn't talking about racing, but if I can shave off an hour of traveling time by going a bit faster than the rest I don't see what the problem is. I don't like machines getting the upper hand in decision making in traffic. That has something to do with the way I drive, always focussed on the road and my surroundings. It's what makes driving fun. I can see I'm in the minority on the road, with all those people hanging backwards, palying with their phones and whatnot. That's up to them and I'm glad cars like Teslas take their hands off the wheel as they're more dangerous driving themselves than if the machine does it for them. But personally I don't like it. Cruise control to my mind is another gimmick to make you too relaxed behind the wheel. I don't want to steer the car, I want to drive it.

    And frankly I don't care how fast someone's car is, I love driving mine and I've driven plenty that were faster but far less fun. Audi's, in example, are the summum of boredom when it comes to driving. BMW's are far better, but can't tip to the fun factor that Alfa's have. It's a pity yours had a malfunction, but that's alfa as well. It comes with the package, or the soul of the car.

    I used to have a Golf II that certainly wasn't fast, but hell it was a blast to throw around an iced over parking lot, or make a handbrake turn. The later models just didn't have that anymore.

    That's great, but my car is fast and fun- a lot more fun than any hatchback. And yes, much better than my old Audi: that did indeed have very vague steering. And being focussed on the road is certainly what I do on the motorway, but I don't drive on the motorway to have fun. I hate sharing that space with other road users who are there to go as fast as possible, carving up others: they don't seem to realise how dangerous that it.
    Alfa tried sportscars recently but apparently weren't very good. The 4C has quite a poor reputation.
    Trying to paint it like not using cruise is the mark of a superior driver is really very silly. I'm sure you'll find plenty of better, professional drivers than both of us who use it frequently.

    And yes, I looked it up and your Alfa does indeed also have the VDC system: it will apply the brakes without your input, and you will feel it! You also can't turn it off. If you don't like cars that make decisions like that then I'm afraid you've picked the wrong car. My car wasn't malfunctioning, that's how the system works. If you were to drive your car a bit more fully on the handling I'm sure you'll discover it, and I'm sure you'll hate it as much as I did. Very unsubtle and intrusive system.

    There are also some horror stories about that system malfunctioning and slamming the brakes on fully whilst just driving ahead: sounds very dangerous. I wouldn't call it 'soul'! :)
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Infotainment systems are the driver's way to interact with the car. For me, they need to be "right" to get me interested in the car. Importantly, essential controls (radio on/off/mute, station change, climate controls) should be controlled by physical switches and not hidden in sub menues. The user interface and its software must be one of the cheaper elements of the ID.4, so I simply cannot understand why VW has no interest to get this right. Perhaps Apple should get into this market and design user interfaces for cars.

    The fact that it's called ID.4 tells you what the management at VW are all about.

    Stupid name for a car and stupid interior ???
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,213
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.

    Oh like radar detection? Lots of cars do that now. I don’t see the issue, it’s not like it’s swerving or anything.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that.

    That’s a worrying way to look at it. Motorways aren’t racetracks. I suspect my car is probably sportier than yours as it’s an actual sportscar, maybe quicker too as Alfas aren’t really the quickest (got rid of mine as it just didn’t have the go I wanted) but I don’t need to use the power or the handling all of the time, especially not on motorways.

    Funnily enough my Alfa had a fairly terrifying braking system where it would suddenly and jerkily apply the brakes by itself if it detected the car getting in trouble. It cut in a couple of times (once when the car was full of people and the other was when I had a puncture and didn’t realise and the dynamics confused the car)- so I’d probably steer clear of them if you don’t like the idea of self-braking cars! :D
    I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    It’s not taking over. It’s just doing what you set it to do.

    Well I'm not asking you to feel the same way about cars as I do, I'm just commenting my thoughts. And I wasn't talking about racing, but if I can shave off an hour of traveling time by going a bit faster than the rest I don't see what the problem is. I don't like machines getting the upper hand in decision making in traffic. That has something to do with the way I drive, always focussed on the road and my surroundings. It's what makes driving fun. I can see I'm in the minority on the road, with all those people hanging backwards, palying with their phones and whatnot. That's up to them and I'm glad cars like Teslas take their hands off the wheel as they're more dangerous driving themselves than if the machine does it for them. But personally I don't like it. Cruise control to my mind is another gimmick to make you too relaxed behind the wheel. I don't want to steer the car, I want to drive it.

    And frankly I don't care how fast someone's car is, I love driving mine and I've driven plenty that were faster but far less fun. Audi's, in example, are the summum of boredom when it comes to driving. BMW's are far better, but can't tip to the fun factor that Alfa's have. It's a pity yours had a malfunction, but that's alfa as well. It comes with the package, or the soul of the car.

    I used to have a Golf II that certainly wasn't fast, but hell it was a blast to throw around an iced over parking lot, or make a handbrake turn. The later models just didn't have that anymore.

    That's great, but my car is fast and fun- a lot more fun than any hatchback. And yes, much better than my old Audi: that did indeed have very vague steering. And being focussed on the road is certainly what I do on the motorway, but I don't drive on the motorway to have fun. I hate sharing that space with other road users who are there to go as fast as possible, carving up others: they don't seem to realise how dangerous that it.
    Alfa tried sportscars recently but apparently weren't very good. The 4C has quite a poor reputation.
    Trying to paint it like not using cruise is the mark of a superior driver is really very silly. I'm sure you'll find plenty of better, professional drivers than both of us who use it frequently.

    And yes, I looked it up and your Alfa does indeed also have the VDC system: it will apply the brakes without your input, and you will feel it! You also can't turn it off. If you don't like cars that make decisions like that then I'm afraid you've picked the wrong car. My car wasn't malfunctioning, that's how the system works. If you were to drive your car a bit more fully on the handling I'm sure you'll discover it, and I'm sure you'll hate it as much as I did. Very unsubtle and intrusive system.

    There are also some horror stories about that system malfunctioning and slamming the brakes on fully whilst just driving ahead: sounds very dangerous. I wouldn't call it 'soul'! :)

    Again I'm not claiming to be a 'superior' driver, I'm just noting what I see around me on the road, but also amongst my friends. The cruise control system is used to relax and be less concentrated on the road. That may not have been it's intent, but that's what I see. Moreover when I got a new Skoda to replace my then broken down 156 the cruise control set in without my knowledge at 140 k/ph. So when I took my foot off to slow the car down on its engine it did all but that. Not a pleasant experience I can tell you.

    I'm far from a rally driver or anything like that. I'm perhaps a fast driver compared to those around me on the road, but I do keep a safe distance. Cutting off or getting way too close behind to push people away is not the way I drive, I hated it when others did that and I was still driving a car that could hardly keep up. And I've seen too many near-misses like that around me. I distinctly remember a group of youths trying to overtake me in Germany going from one highway to the next, cutting me off and going apparently without looking straight to the third lane to overtake two trucks. I'm very happy the BMW that came in with 200+ kph had extremely good brakes.

    Yes, my car has the VDC system as well, but I don't recognise your descriptions. Perhaps I haven't pushed the car hard enough but I've certainly lost grip this winter and there was no braking without my initiative. But again I am perhaps a safer driver than you perceive me to be ;-)
    And considering the 4C, I guess again it comes down to expectations. Had a laugh about this one, but it does sum up what I mean pretty good:
    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15102458/i-dont-care-what-anyone-says-i-love-the-alfa-romeo-4c-column/

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,333
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What do you mean about Teslas? I've not heard that.

    You never use cruise control? Well fair enough, it's up to you, but I find it very helpful. Do you think you'll lose attention if you use it? Honestly I wish more people used cruise control on motorways- if everyone just stuck at a constant speed it'd make things easier.

    Teslas jump in when they detect there might be an accident about to happen and brake immediately, whatever the driver does.

    Oh like radar detection? Lots of cars do that now. I don’t see the issue, it’s not like it’s swerving or anything.
    And yes, I understand it's easier (more boring) driving if everybody does the same speed, but I didn't buy an alfa to play trains, I got model trains for that.

    That’s a worrying way to look at it. Motorways aren’t racetracks. I suspect my car is probably sportier than yours as it’s an actual sportscar, maybe quicker too as Alfas aren’t really the quickest (got rid of mine as it just didn’t have the go I wanted) but I don’t need to use the power or the handling all of the time, especially not on motorways.

    Funnily enough my Alfa had a fairly terrifying braking system where it would suddenly and jerkily apply the brakes by itself if it detected the car getting in trouble. It cut in a couple of times (once when the car was full of people and the other was when I had a puncture and didn’t realise and the dynamics confused the car)- so I’d probably steer clear of them if you don’t like the idea of self-braking cars! :D
    I never got tired feed, not even after 12 hours of driving, and really don't understand why you'd want the car to take over.

    It’s not taking over. It’s just doing what you set it to do.

    Well I'm not asking you to feel the same way about cars as I do, I'm just commenting my thoughts. And I wasn't talking about racing, but if I can shave off an hour of traveling time by going a bit faster than the rest I don't see what the problem is. I don't like machines getting the upper hand in decision making in traffic. That has something to do with the way I drive, always focussed on the road and my surroundings. It's what makes driving fun. I can see I'm in the minority on the road, with all those people hanging backwards, palying with their phones and whatnot. That's up to them and I'm glad cars like Teslas take their hands off the wheel as they're more dangerous driving themselves than if the machine does it for them. But personally I don't like it. Cruise control to my mind is another gimmick to make you too relaxed behind the wheel. I don't want to steer the car, I want to drive it.

    And frankly I don't care how fast someone's car is, I love driving mine and I've driven plenty that were faster but far less fun. Audi's, in example, are the summum of boredom when it comes to driving. BMW's are far better, but can't tip to the fun factor that Alfa's have. It's a pity yours had a malfunction, but that's alfa as well. It comes with the package, or the soul of the car.

    I used to have a Golf II that certainly wasn't fast, but hell it was a blast to throw around an iced over parking lot, or make a handbrake turn. The later models just didn't have that anymore.

    That's great, but my car is fast and fun- a lot more fun than any hatchback. And yes, much better than my old Audi: that did indeed have very vague steering. And being focussed on the road is certainly what I do on the motorway, but I don't drive on the motorway to have fun. I hate sharing that space with other road users who are there to go as fast as possible, carving up others: they don't seem to realise how dangerous that it.
    Alfa tried sportscars recently but apparently weren't very good. The 4C has quite a poor reputation.
    Trying to paint it like not using cruise is the mark of a superior driver is really very silly. I'm sure you'll find plenty of better, professional drivers than both of us who use it frequently.

    And yes, I looked it up and your Alfa does indeed also have the VDC system: it will apply the brakes without your input, and you will feel it! You also can't turn it off. If you don't like cars that make decisions like that then I'm afraid you've picked the wrong car. My car wasn't malfunctioning, that's how the system works. If you were to drive your car a bit more fully on the handling I'm sure you'll discover it, and I'm sure you'll hate it as much as I did. Very unsubtle and intrusive system.

    There are also some horror stories about that system malfunctioning and slamming the brakes on fully whilst just driving ahead: sounds very dangerous. I wouldn't call it 'soul'! :)

    Again I'm not claiming to be a 'superior' driver, I'm just noting what I see around me on the road, but also amongst my friends. The cruise control system is used to relax and be less concentrated on the road.

    Nope, you're wrong about that, that's not what it's for.
    Moreover when I got a new Skoda to replace my then broken down 156 the cruise control set in without my knowledge at 140 k/ph. So when I took my foot off to slow the car down on its engine it did all but that. Not a pleasant experience I can tell you.

    All you have to do is touch the brake -the normal control to make a car slow-, it's not a problem. I've no idea how you managed to turn it on without realising.
    Yes, my car has the VDC system as well, but I don't recognise your descriptions. Perhaps I haven't pushed the car hard enough but I've certainly lost grip this winter and there was no braking without my initiative. But again I am perhaps a safer driver than you perceive me to be ;-)

    I'm not a bad driver either, but regardless, you have bought a car with a system where it brakes by itself whilst criticising cars that do that. It's not the car to have if you don't like the idea of cars applying their own brakes.

    It took a couple of years for mine to happen to find the circumstances where it activated: it's uncommon- it doesn't kick in if you just make the wheels spin. It just hasn't happened to you yet.

    And considering the 4C, I guess again it comes down to expectations. Had a laugh about this one, but it does sum up what I mean pretty good:
    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15102458/i-dont-care-what-anyone-says-i-love-the-alfa-romeo-4c-column/

    Well yeah, that's someone talking about how it's a not a great car. I'll stick with the sportscars which get good reviews for their handling and engines I think! :)


    Here's a post on a forum talking about the VDC (this may be on an older model so hopefully they've developed it a bit more on your car:
    "A few nights ago I was negotiating a fastish sweeping left hand bend over a crest, to be suddenly confronted with another car heading toward me at excessively high speed in the middle of the (narrow) road. I backed off and the cars line tightened (as wanted and expected) so that my two left wheels were just off the edge of the dampish tarmac, which caused the start of a very minor oversteer. A touch of opposite lock and the car immediately started to straighten out as expected, no dramas, but then, the cars’ stability control system (VDC) decided to apply one (or more?) of the brakes, which then flicked the car in the opposite direction, into the path of the oncoming car. There was no accident, but it was a scary moment."

    http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=16338.0
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    Great story about the Ferrari 250 GTO design problems.

    Forghieri tells: Enzo Ferrari & the 250 GTO
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