Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

1282931333439

Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Dwayne wrote: »
    I'll second @echo.

    While Bond/Tracy and Bond/Vesper are the two clear choices here, an argument can be made for Bond and Kara from “The Living Daylights.” I really like how her naivety balances off with Dalton’s more world-weary approach to the character. And, of course, I have this thing for Maryam d'Abo….. 😊.

    But for the given choices, I’m going to go with Bond and Tracy. For all of the criticism that Lazenby’s acting takes (deservedly so, in some cases), I think he plays this scene with an appropriate balance of decisiveness and vulnerability (watch his eyes). And it happens to be one of my favorites.



    As for the second topic, I’ll go old school and vote for Sylvia.

    A good question for you folks:

    You can program four Bond movies for a valentines day marathon. Other than OHMSS and CR, what two other titles would you pick?

    TLD, and the film it was based on, FRWL.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited July 2020 Posts: 3,262
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO.

    I'd posit that Dalton Bond/d'Abo Kara tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper.

    That could be a controversial opinion.

    Indeed. I'll posit an even more potentially controversial one: Moore Bond/Octopussy tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper also. On paper Bond/Tracy and Bond/Vesper should be the top 002 Bond/Bond girl couples but when it comes to onscreen romantic chemistry Bond/Kara and Bond/Octopussy appear the strongest to me even though in OP's case it's probably more due to the Moore/Adams combo rather than anything in OP's actual script.
    echo wrote: »
    TLD, and the film it was based on, FRWL.

    I've long thought that TLD is the FRWL for the 1980s: defecting Soviet military intelligence officer playing the British and the Russians against each other(Koskov/Klebb), innocent blond defector that is unknowingly part of a bigger scheme and who falls for Bond(Kara/Tatiana), blond henchman who stalks and assassinates individuals as part of the plan(Necros/Grant).

  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Never thought about these parallels. Very good observations @PrinceKamalKhan
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited July 2020 Posts: 3,262
    Never thought about these parallels. Very good observations @PrinceKamalKhan

    Thanks @goldenswissroyale
  • Posts: 1,917
    No question on question 1: Bond and Tracy. Not only was it the first real romantic relationship the screen Bond had, making it a favorite in that way, but it also develops better. The thing with CR, both novel and film, is Bond falls just a bit too easy for Vesper. I can understand after all the danger they face that she's close and there, but it all seems to go just a bit too fast. She's somebody he clings to after all the trauma.

    Bond and Tracy's relationship develops over more time. The skating up to him after the escape from Piz Gloria is my favorite romantic moment in the series, and she proves more than capable of holding her own in the action. Vesper doesn't show any such traits, just looks good and was with him. Tracy's ultimate death is so much more tragic than Vesper's. Vesper died because she was on the wrong side; Tracy died because she picked Bond as her husband.

    These polls sometimes surprise me and does again with question 2. What's the love for Sylvia Trench? It's kind of obvious she was created solely to establish Bond as a suave ladies man right up front. To make her part of a running gag as Bond's ongoing girlfriend is just silly in light of Bond getting involved with just about every other woman who shows up. It's like some kind of dated romantic comedy joke from that time period with Rock Hudson and Doris Day. It's one of the few Terence Young missteps. Thanks to Guy Hamilton for doing away with the character. I can't imagine having to squeeze Trench in along with visits to M, Moneypenny and Q.

    No sex with Camille is refreshing and I never batted an eye when I first saw QoS. It made sense. Here's a Bond who is grieving over Vesper. It would've really lessened the impact, especially in light of what Medrano did to her. Having Fields for a plaything was nothing more than indulging that trope and was equally unnecessary also.

    This case is kind of the flip side of the complaints I've seen about some fans who don't like that Bond had sex with Severine given her background. I could've done without that scene too.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited July 2020 Posts: 7,551
    Agreed. Bond sleeping with Camille would have felt immensely out of place.

    The Severine scene might have been better if she had gotten out of the shower in a towel, and there was Bond standing with the champagne in the main room, in the tux. Then if she had dropped her towel or something, she would have clearly had more agency in the scene.
    "I like you better without your Beretta, I feel naked without it" would still have worked as well.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    I’m not a fan of the lurrrrvvvveeeee stories -when it comes to displays of affection give me Jaws and Dolly, or JW and a little elephant any day.
    +1

    Bond and Tracy

    Camille
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Results of round 42:
    More believable love story: Bond & Tracy wins very easily against Bond & Vesper: 14:2
    Unusual bondgirl "Treatment": A tie (8 : 8) between "returning Sylvia" and "no sex with Camille".

    Round 43:
    Which Roger moment/quote do you prefer (TSWLM): "What a handsome craft. Such lovely lines" vs. "Keeping the british end up, Sir".

    Sometimes even Moore Bond was too exhausted for a funny comment or pun…

    Which more serious Moore scene do you prefer: Bond in the centrifuge (MR) vs. Bond's climbing in Greece (FYEO).
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Round 43:

    "What a handsome craft. Such lovely lines", most likely because of my affection for Naomi with the lovely but lethal wink ;)

    and

    Bond in the centrifuge (MR), a more serious scene that it may be given credit for with Moore quite good in it.
  • Posts: 631
    Lovely lines (although my favourite Moore quip is ‘a water pistol?’ from TMWTGG)

    Climbing in Greece. I saw this on the big screen when FYEO was released. Best part of the film for me.
  • Posts: 698
    1) Keeping the British end up

    2) A toss up, but given the film it's accompanied with, I like Bond in the centrifuge from MR more as it's a nice change of pace given the rest of the film.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Good round!
    Round 43:

    "What a handsome craft. Such lovely lines", most likely because of my affection for Naomi with the lovely but lethal wink ;)

    and

    Bond in the centrifuge (MR), a more serious scene that it may be given credit for with Moore quite good in it.

    Agreed. While For Your Eyes Only and Moonraker are my favourite Bond films respectively and these moments are highlights of each film, I've always thought of Bond in the Centrifuge as one of the highlights of the series, IMO. It's stark contrast to the rest of the film make it all the more tense and Moore looks genuinely finished at the end of the ordeal. Simply a brilliant moment from the Moore era.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Such lovely lines and rock climbing.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Cant go past 'Keeping the British end up Sir.'

    And whilst the centrifuge ordeal in MR is a highlight of the film and even series. Bond only escapes with the help of Q's gadget. Therefore my vote must go to the rock climbing of FYEO. Certainly one of the highlights of the film, exciting and full of tension. Especially as Apostis begins removing the pitons stopping Bond from falling to his death. OO7 is left to rely on his ingenuity to save himself, rather than a convenient gadget.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Both are fun deliveries, but I will go with Such lovely lines....

    For the second one: while I really enjoy the centrifuge scene and I think Moore plays it perfectly, I have never been a fan of the convenient gadget to get Bond out of a sticky situation. I'll go with the rock climbing sequence-- it's incredibly tense, the suspense is drawn out and heights aren't really my thing, so I find I have a visceral reaction to the sequence as well.
  • Posts: 1,917
    "Such lovely lines" is one of the more underrated Moore witticisms. It works in not only its humor but as a dig at Amasova delivered with that Moore smirk. On the opposite side, "Keeping the British end up" is an example of when those lines go horribly wrong, it just sounds crass and unclassy, and along with the male chorus version of the theme song, a limp way to end a successful film. At least Q gets to deliver the "I think he's attempting reentry, sir" groaner line in MR.

    A lot of fans have pointed to centrifuge as a good example of Moore Bond in real danger, emerging rattled and sweating and not coming out with every hair in place and clothes still pressed like in so many of his other action scenes. And also importantly, no cheap quip to lessen the impact.

    I will agree with what others above have mentioned about the convenient gadget being what saves him being the downside. I've seen comparisons with TB's rack scene where Bond is saved by the intervention of Pat Fearing. But it's the aftermath that makes it more impactful, not so much the resolution.

    As an aside, when Q gives Bond the wrist gun, he explains there are 10 darts, 5 armor-piercing and 5 poison tipped. How does the user know which is going to come out? They are worked by nerve impulses but Bond would've been in trouble had the poison one shot the centrifuge and Drax hit with armor-piercing later in the film.

    The climbing scene is tough competition here. Bond at his resourceful best here and Conti's music is an asset. But it just seems to drag a bit too much and I have to rank it behind centrifuge. It's a gritty scene in a film featuring more grit throughout, while the centrifuge is a genuine human moment that really stands out in a film focused on lighter moments and FX.



  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Keeping the British end up, FYEO climbing
  • Posts: 572
    BT3366 wrote: »
    "Such lovely lines" is one of the more underrated Moore witticisms. It works in not only its humor but as a dig at Amasova delivered with that Moore smirk. On the opposite side, "Keeping the British end up" is an example of when those lines go horribly wrong, it just sounds crass and unclassy, and along with the male chorus version of the theme song, a limp way to end a successful film. At least Q gets to deliver the "I think he's attempting reentry, sir" groaner line in MR.

    A lot of fans have pointed to centrifuge as a good example of Moore Bond in real danger, emerging rattled and sweating and not coming out with every hair in place and clothes still pressed like in so many of his other action scenes. And also importantly, no cheap quip to lessen the impact.

    I will agree with what others above have mentioned about the convenient gadget being what saves him being the downside. I've seen comparisons with TB's rack scene where Bond is saved by the intervention of Pat Fearing. But it's the aftermath that makes it more impactful, not so much the resolution.

    As an aside, when Q gives Bond the wrist gun, he explains there are 10 darts, 5 armor-piercing and 5 poison tipped. How does the user know which is going to come out? They are worked by nerve impulses but Bond would've been in trouble had the poison one shot the centrifuge and Drax hit with armor-piercing later in the film.

    The climbing scene is tough competition here. Bond at his resourceful best here and Conti's music is an asset. But it just seems to drag a bit too much and I have to rank it behind centrifuge. It's a gritty scene in a film featuring more grit throughout, while the centrifuge is a genuine human moment that really stands out in a film focused on lighter moments and FX.


    ^This^ Literally nailed every thought I had.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    The British End and the Centrifuge.
  • Posts: 1,917
    JamesStock wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    "Such lovely lines" is one of the more underrated Moore witticisms. It works in not only its humor but as a dig at Amasova delivered with that Moore smirk. On the opposite side, "Keeping the British end up" is an example of when those lines go horribly wrong, it just sounds crass and unclassy, and along with the male chorus version of the theme song, a limp way to end a successful film. At least Q gets to deliver the "I think he's attempting reentry, sir" groaner line in MR.

    A lot of fans have pointed to centrifuge as a good example of Moore Bond in real danger, emerging rattled and sweating and not coming out with every hair in place and clothes still pressed like in so many of his other action scenes. And also importantly, no cheap quip to lessen the impact.

    I will agree with what others above have mentioned about the convenient gadget being what saves him being the downside. I've seen comparisons with TB's rack scene where Bond is saved by the intervention of Pat Fearing. But it's the aftermath that makes it more impactful, not so much the resolution.

    As an aside, when Q gives Bond the wrist gun, he explains there are 10 darts, 5 armor-piercing and 5 poison tipped. How does the user know which is going to come out? They are worked by nerve impulses but Bond would've been in trouble had the poison one shot the centrifuge and Drax hit with armor-piercing later in the film.

    The climbing scene is tough competition here. Bond at his resourceful best here and Conti's music is an asset. But it just seems to drag a bit too much and I have to rank it behind centrifuge. It's a gritty scene in a film featuring more grit throughout, while the centrifuge is a genuine human moment that really stands out in a film focused on lighter moments and FX.


    ^This^ Literally nailed every thought I had.

    You know what they say about great minds, JamesStock.

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    "What a handsome craft. Such lovely lines"

    Bond in the centrifuge (MR)
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    Omg it’s a multitude of Moore magic this week! Magnificent! But wait .... you expect me to choose between these options, impossible I say! You pick all my favourite Moore moments ... mind-blowing!

    I LOVE the centrifuge not only is it superbly kid-friendly (what big kid doesn’t want to go flying round and round at top speed pretending to be an astronaut) but it features some top Moore acting as well (no, I refer not to his disorientation but to his excellent facial skin rippling which was absolutely not achieved with SFX air blasts but is achieved through years of dedicated training of the cheek muscles). I also LOVE the climbing scene, it had me on the edge of my seat the first time I saw it with one of the most tense moments of peril in the series. Each drop was heart-stopping and again Moore plays it so well.

    I’m sorry @goldenswissroyale you know I don’t normally do this but can I please have a vote for both of these majestic Moore moments? It would break my heart to pick one over the other!!

    As for the quotes again you’ve picked two corkers. Nobody does the one-liners like Sir Rog, and we all love a double entendres but Keeping the British end up does edge it for me.

    What a week this is! ☺️
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I LOVE the centrifuge not only is it superbly kid-friendly (what big kid doesn’t want to go flying round and round at top speed pretending to be an astronaut) but it features some top Moore acting as well (no, I refer not to his disorientation but to his excellent facial skin rippling which was absolutely not achieved with SFX air blasts but is achieved through years of dedicated training of the cheek muscles).

    I had no idea! Incredible.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @Max_The_Parrot yes, of course you can have a vote for both scenes. I expected a clear MR vote but it is good to read that you love both scenes. We shouldn't forget that the climbing screne wouldn't exist without your help on, the ship.

    I planned to play the centrifuge scene already for a while but couldn't think of a matching scene (the Shrublands scene is kind of similar but isn't good enough).
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    I'm a fan of "lovely lines". Very amusing scene. This is the TSWLM moment where I usually have the brightest smile on my face. Great delivery, very attractive woman - sorry, I mean boat - and THIS look from Amasova :))

    Great to see much love for both more serious Moore scenes. The climbing scene was and still is one of my top Bond scenes. There is a great tension in this scene. There aren't many Bond moments where the viewer thinks that Bond is in real danger. But this is one of them and it is even mo(o)re Special because it is Roger, the man who usually copes a situation by pushing a button and a funny comment. Amazing scene.
    The centrifuge is a great Ken Adam design and easily one of the best MR scenes. Great acting, outstanding sound, editing, speed...and the (great) sad face of Chang when the centrfuge is slowing down. This scene grows on me more and more. I always liked it but I love it more with every new watch.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Results of round 43:
    “What a handsome craft. Such lovely lines.“ wins against “Keep the british end up, Sir.“ 9:5
    Bond in the centrifuge (MR) beats Climbing in Greece (FYEO) by a heart beat. 8:7

    This is probably the last round for the moment. My plan is to end it with round 52 (= one year) but I'm not sure if it makes sense to go on with this poll whilst @thedove hosts his Bondie/Klebbie thread. The poll and his thread aren't too different and the Bondie concept is more succesful and leads to great discussions.
    We will see…Maybe it's more fun to be back with this poll when NTTD arrives...(whenever this will be)

    Round 44:
    Connery's introduction as James Bond in the casino in DN is undoubtedly the best and considered as one of the best or even the best Bond scene of the series. While the final moment of the Bond actors are often a bit disappointing (compare with Bondie/Klebbie thread), the introduction of the actors are much more satisfying.

    A) Which Bond introduction do you prefer?
    Don't vote for the whole PTS. Only for the way Bond is introduced...
    Lazenby's introduction as Bond in OHMSS (there are parallels to DN, i.e. we don't see the complete face in the beginning, he is also smoking and he has an interest in attractive women…) vs. Dalton's introduction as Bond in TLD (we don't know which agent is Bond, is it the guy hanging on the rope?!, and then his face is revealed and he is ready for action!)

    B) Which ticking bomb leads to higher tension? The countdown in GF(The bomb is ticking very fast, he needs the key first…and there is Oddjob!) vs. the countdown in OP (Bond needs a car and has to sneek in the circus and disarm the bomb)

    It is less about the better action scenes but more about the way the tension is built up (editing, music, timer, atmosphere, drama...is it more exciting that Bond is next to the bomb all the time or that he has to reach the circus and the bomb?)

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Personally, I look forward to this every Saturday, @goldenswissroyale ... you always seem to shake up the usual in the Bondverse. Many times I come on this thread and scratch my bald head. I hope you reconsider.

    As for this week’s choices, I’m going to have to have a long bath, a bottle of wine, cognac, a long sleep and hopefully my winners will reveal themselves. As for now I love all four and sincerely need a think!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    Isn't there room for both? I don't think we are in competition but maybe we are. LOL!

    I think your thread seems different then the Bondie and Klebbie. We have categories and we do crazy and weird categories. I'd continue yours but it's up to you.


  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    This is probably the last round for the moment. My plan is to end it with round 52 (= one year) but I'm not sure if it makes sense to go on with this poll whilst @thedove hosts his Bondie/Klebbie thread. The poll and his thread aren't too different and the Bondie concept is more succesful and leads to great discussions.
    We will see…Maybe it's more fun to be back with this poll when NTTD arrives...(whenever this will be)

    @goldenswissroyale I hope you decided to keep running this one. As thedove pointed out it's different enough from the Bondie/Klebbie thread to warrant continuing IMHO.

    Round 44:

    A) Which Bond introduction do you prefer?

    Dalton's introduction as Bond in TLD (we don't know which agent is Bond, is it the guy hanging on the rope?!, and then his face is revealed and he is ready for action!)

    Both are very well done and the Laz's introduction is a very close 2nd but ultimately I pick the Daltonator's here. It's especially good in the context of portraying the new(for 1987)Bond as a man of action after the haphazard editing between Moore and his stunt doubles in the previous film.

    B) Which ticking bomb leads to higher tension?

    the countdown in OP (Bond needs a car and has to sneak in the circus and disarm the bomb)

    Again both are good and I prefer Barry's GF score to his OP one but the OP sequence seems slightly more realistic and taking the bomb ticking down to very last second makes it much more tense of the two.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    As others have said, I do hope you keep this thread going. It's a lot of fun, and the match ups are often very thought provoking. Be a shame to see it go.

    For the first match I'm almost at a loss. Lazenby's intro is akin to Connery's. The brief glimpses, not revealing his face, until he's saved Tracy from suicide.
    However I slightly prefer Dalton's. Three OO agents on a training mission. Not knowing which one is Bond. Till one of the agents is murdered, causing the new OO7 to turn and reveal his face. It's a great introduction I believe.

    As too the second match up, it may seem an obvious choice for me, but I'm going with the OP countdown. The GF countdown is surely a classic, that coupled with Bond and Oddjob fighting to the death is filled with tension and thrills. However for me, Bond's desperate race to the circus in OP is one of the highlights of the series. Constantly being held back with time literally ticking away. Even when he's gained access to the circus he has no luck in convincing the authorities of the impending explosion. It's only when Octopussy decides to trust Bond and shoot the lock off the canon with the bomb inside, that Bond's luck changes. With seconds to go, the bomb clicks down to zero as Bond disarms it. It's good old fashioned nail biting, breath holding, edge of your seat tension that makes it my favourite. Truly a thrilling sequence.
Sign In or Register to comment.