NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    It’s also unrealistic that Bond could have ANY street chase in Las Vegas, especially at night. But did we care then? No. Because we like to see Bond drive a Ford Mustang really fast performing wheelies while at it.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 463
    Having watched NTTD on a flight home from vacation, two things in particular jumped out at me.

    1. Blofeld was such a wasted character in the Craig era. I like Waltz more here, something really sinister in his performance this time around, but his death was a real missed opportunity. At the Cuba party, Herecules’ effects are terrifying with people screaming, gasping for air, etc. Blofeld just dies quietly offscreen. Craig’s performance in this scene comes off completely different from anything else in the movie.

    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room. This leads further to my dislike of the ending, I do find Bond’s death to be unneeded and unnecessary.


    I’ve never cared for Swann as a character but she does just fine here. One of the highlights of the series for me is the Matera Square scene, and her performance there raises the tension considerably. The first few moments where the camera doesn’t leave the interior are awesome, and you finally get a sense of how indestructible the DB5 feels.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Having watched NTTD on a flight home from vacation, two things in particular jumped out at me.

    1. Blofeld was such a wasted character in the Craig era. I like Waltz more here, something really sinister in his performance this time around, but his death was a real missed opportunity. At the Cuba party, Herecules’ effects are terrifying with people screaming, gasping for air, etc. Blofeld just dies quietly offscreen. Craig’s performance in this scene comes off completely different from anything else in the movie.

    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room.


    I’ve never cared for Swann as a character but she does just fine here. One of the highlights of the series for me is the Matera Square scene, and her performance there raises the tension considerably. The first few moments where the camera doesn’t leave the interior are awesome, and you finally get a sense of how indestructible the DB5 feels.

    I think if they had the rights around the time they were formulating CR, Blofeld could've been handled much better and way more organically, but shoehorning him into the fourth installment of an actor's era, one that was seemingly nearing its end sooner rather than later, was foolish. They should've taken the time to flesh out Blofeld, SPECTRE, whatever angles they wanted to take and incorporate them into the next era. That would've been much smarter and might've led to a much more consistent progression for the next actor.

    Instead, "Bond's too old" in SF, he fights Blofeld in the fourth installment three years later, then returns six years on to fight someone else entirely with Blofeld now in the background, almost an afterthought. I still love NTTD but it all could've been handled much better had they used their time wisely.
  • Posts: 463
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Having watched NTTD on a flight home from vacation, two things in particular jumped out at me.

    1. Blofeld was such a wasted character in the Craig era. I like Waltz more here, something really sinister in his performance this time around, but his death was a real missed opportunity. At the Cuba party, Herecules’ effects are terrifying with people screaming, gasping for air, etc. Blofeld just dies quietly offscreen. Craig’s performance in this scene comes off completely different from anything else in the movie.

    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room.


    I’ve never cared for Swann as a character but she does just fine here. One of the highlights of the series for me is the Matera Square scene, and her performance there raises the tension considerably. The first few moments where the camera doesn’t leave the interior are awesome, and you finally get a sense of how indestructible the DB5 feels.

    I think if they had the rights around the time they were formulating CR, Blofeld could've been handled much better and way more organically, but shoehorning him into the fourth installment of an actor's era, one that was seemingly nearing its end sooner rather than later, was foolish. They should've taken the time to flesh out Blofeld, SPECTRE, whatever angles they wanted to take and incorporate them into the next era. That would've been much smarter and might've led to a much more consistent progression for the next actor.

    Instead, "Bond's too old" in SF, he fights Blofeld in the fourth installment three years later, then returns six years on to fight someone else entirely with Blofeld now in the background, almost an afterthought. I still love NTTD but it all could've been handled much better had they used their time wisely.

    NTTD weakens SP further for me for that reason — Spectre was supposed to be the big baddie of the Craig era based on Blofeld being the “author of Bond’s pain” and then is immediately taken out (easily, I might add) in the next film.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 1,078
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room. This leads further to my dislike of the ending, I do find Bond’s death to be unneeded and unnecessary.

    Now we know they built the story around Bond's death (which they thought was such a good idea), we can see more how the story was constructed. He had to be alone on the island, for the death to be heroic. He had to be standing there smiling watching 'fireworks', so Nomi had to get on the boat. Sure, it made no sense, but they were building a plot back from the death scene. This explains other daft plot elements, like how Bond automatically believes Safin has infected him.
    He's normally ahead of the game, but he does come off a little gullible in NTTD.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Having watched NTTD on a flight home from vacation, two things in particular jumped out at me.

    1. Blofeld was such a wasted character in the Craig era. I like Waltz more here, something really sinister in his performance this time around, but his death was a real missed opportunity. At the Cuba party, Herecules’ effects are terrifying with people screaming, gasping for air, etc. Blofeld just dies quietly offscreen. Craig’s performance in this scene comes off completely different from anything else in the movie.

    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room. This leads further to my dislike of the ending, I do find Bond’s death to be unneeded and unnecessary.


    I’ve never cared for Swann as a character but she does just fine here. One of the highlights of the series for me is the Matera Square scene, and her performance there raises the tension considerably. The first few moments where the camera doesn’t leave the interior are awesome, and you finally get a sense of how indestructible the DB5 feels.

    Blofeld is a wasted character in every era.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    echo wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Having watched NTTD on a flight home from vacation, two things in particular jumped out at me.

    1. Blofeld was such a wasted character in the Craig era. I like Waltz more here, something really sinister in his performance this time around, but his death was a real missed opportunity. At the Cuba party, Herecules’ effects are terrifying with people screaming, gasping for air, etc. Blofeld just dies quietly offscreen. Craig’s performance in this scene comes off completely different from anything else in the movie.

    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room. This leads further to my dislike of the ending, I do find Bond’s death to be unneeded and unnecessary.


    I’ve never cared for Swann as a character but she does just fine here. One of the highlights of the series for me is the Matera Square scene, and her performance there raises the tension considerably. The first few moments where the camera doesn’t leave the interior are awesome, and you finally get a sense of how indestructible the DB5 feels.

    Blofeld is a wasted character in every era.

    To be honest, I never found him particularly interesting in the novels either....

    Hugo Drax, Goldfinger, Mr Big and Dr No were far more interesting...
  • Posts: 2,161
    That first two page description in TB is dynamite, great stuff. But that Blofeld never emerges again.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited January 2022 Posts: 8,183
    This is why even though the film version of OHMSS was faithful, Hunt was smart enough to change things by having Blofeld find out Bond's identity so that we could have that honest moment between the two. It would have been underwhelming if all we saw of Blofeld was him putting on the act of claiming another identity.

    I do like how he's depicted in Fleming's YOLT as someone who's become deranged over time, but as others noted he's practically a different character by that point.

    All the movies to some degree were forced to mold Blofeld into something different from the novels because not even the novels kept it straight. Arguably, the only time we see Blofeld in his prime in the novels is during his meeting in THUNDERBALL. It's a great introduction of the character. But then that's all we really get. From then on it's Blofeld Incognito in OHMSS and Blofeld the Mad Man in YOLT.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Charles Gray was my first Blofeld. It was imprinted on me at 11 years old, and it stuck. Max Von Sydow was probably the best, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Funnily, I often picture Charles Gray’s image when reading OHMSS/YOLT. He just fits the description closest with the silver hair and looking like a game show host. Would have been interesting to see him play a more deranged Blofeld from YOLT.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Funnily, I often picture Charles Gray’s image when reading OHMSS/YOLT. He just fits the description closest with the silver hair and looking like a game show host. Would have been interesting to see him play a more deranged Blofeld from YOLT.

    And he was IN YOLT!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Funnily, I often picture Charles Gray’s image when reading OHMSS/YOLT. He just fits the description closest with the silver hair and looking like a game show host. Would have been interesting to see him play a more deranged Blofeld from YOLT.

    And he was IN YOLT!

    But he had no neck. [HE HAD NO NECK!]

    images2.jpg
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Funnily, I often picture Charles Gray’s image when reading OHMSS/YOLT. He just fits the description closest with the silver hair and looking like a game show host. Would have been interesting to see him play a more deranged Blofeld from YOLT.

    And he was IN YOLT!

    But he had no neck. [HE HAD NO NECK!]

    images2.jpg

    It's just a jump to the left.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Funnily, I often picture Charles Gray’s image when reading OHMSS/YOLT. He just fits the description closest with the silver hair and looking like a game show host. Would have been interesting to see him play a more deranged Blofeld from YOLT.

    And he was IN YOLT!

    But he had no neck. [HE HAD NO NECK!]

    images2.jpg

    It's just a jump to the left.

    Okay yes. But surely it was no picnic. And I just called you surely.

    csGD2rA.gif
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    This isn't the junior Chamber Of Commerce.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    2. Nomi as another 00 just leaving Bond to finish the mission. As much as we are to believe that Madeline/Mathide are high priority, stopping Herecules would be #1 so it’s hard for me to believe she would leave Bond, fully knowing it’s damn near a suicide mission fighting up to the control room. This leads further to my dislike of the ending, I do find Bond’s death to be unneeded and unnecessary.

    Now we know they built the story around Bond's death (which they thought was such a good idea), we can see more how the story was constructed. He had to be alone on the island, for the death to be heroic. He had to be standing there smiling watching 'fireworks', so Nomi had to get on the boat. Sure, it made no sense, but they were building a plot back from the death scene. This explains other daft plot elements, like how Bond automatically believes Safin has infected him.
    He's normally ahead of the game, but he does come off a little gullible in NTTD.

    Would it have worked better when someone tried to kill Madeleine and Nomi could save her but resulting i an injury, i.e. a bullet in the leg, so that Nomi could still protect the others on the boat but wouldn't be able to walk and therefore would also leave the island?
    Nomi leaving rhe island really doesn't make sense for her character. It doesn't bother me much but I fuly understand the critisism there. Even my wife felt this was one the main issues of NTTD.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    This is why even though the film version of OHMSS was faithful, Hunt was smart enough to change things by having Blofeld find out Bond's identity so that we could have that honest moment between the two. It would have been underwhelming if all we saw of Blofeld was him putting on the act of claiming another identity.

    I do like how he's depicted in Fleming's YOLT as someone who's become deranged over time, but as others noted he's practically a different character by that point.

    All the movies to some degree were forced to mold Blofeld into something different from the novels because not even the novels kept it straight. Arguably, the only time we see Blofeld in his prime in the novels is during his meeting in THUNDERBALL. It's a great introduction of the character. But then that's all we really get. From then on it's Blofeld Incognito in OHMSS and Blofeld the Mad Man in YOLT.

    They never got the shapeshifting quality of Blofeld right in the films. It's another thing Mendes got wrong in SP. The closest they came was putting Blofeld in drag.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Would it have worked better when someone tried to kill Madeleine and Nomi could save her but resulting i an injury, i.e. a bullet in the leg, so that Nomi could still protect the others on the boat but wouldn't be able to walk and therefore would also leave the island?

    That would've worked, for sure.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    TripAces wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    A proper Helicopter vs Speedboat chase would have also helped the finale.

    True.

    Yeah, lots of missed opportunities in SP for such a Bondian-looking film.

    I've said it many times: the SP finale's blueprint was in TSWLM. Explosive device that needs to be disconnected? Check. Bond girl in the hands of the villain? Check. Henchman still on the loose and has to be taken out? Check. I feel that the helicopter fight needed to be reserved for the ending, with Bond vs Hinx.

    The silliest part of SP was Bond letting Madeleine just walk away, into the night...with seemingly nowhere to go. WTAF. That too needed serious revision.


    Yeah, you're right. The Helicopter fight would have been a great scene to end the film with.
  • Posts: 387
    I told you before, not killing Nomi was a major mistake.

    Either Valdo Obruchev should have killed her, and met his fate by Bond, or Dr. No would have, making Bond killing him much better.

    The only reason they didn't kill her is that they were afraid of accusations of racism re killing a black character. Which make no sense because many black women have met their fate already in past Bond films.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Stamper wrote: »
    I told you before, not killing Nomi was a major mistake.

    Either Valdo Obruchev should have killed her, and met his fate by Bond, or Dr. No would have, making Bond killing him much better.

    The only reason they didn't kill her is that they were afraid of accusations of racism re killing a black character. Which make no sense because many black women have met their fate already in past Bond films.

    That's a weird conclusion to draw. Perhaps the reason they didn't kill this character was that they didn't feel the need to kill this character. You do realise they killed a black character named Felix, right? And because "many" black women were killed before, this one must too? I can't even begin to describe how daft that sounds. Also: Jinx, Thumper, Moneypenny, ... versus Rosie and May Day? I'm not sure "many" black women were killed in the past. And even if that were the case, since when is that some sort of a rule?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Stamper wrote: »
    I told you before, not killing Nomi was a major mistake.

    Either Valdo Obruchev should have killed her, and met his fate by Bond, or Dr. No would have, making Bond killing him much better.

    The only reason they didn't kill her is that they were afraid of accusations of racism re killing a black character. Which make no sense because many black women have met their fate already in past Bond films.

    It's the same film where the series finally killed Felix Leiter, played by a black man.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Yea, and it wasn't because they were racist they killed off Felix. It's just because they were daft, that's all.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    .
    Yea, and it wasn't because they were racist they killed off Felix. It's just because they were daft, that's all.

    Wait. Hold on. Are you saying you didn't like NTTD @ColonelAdamski ??
  • Posts: 1,078
    I didn't like them killing of Felix, no.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They should ve killed Felix in every film.
  • Posts: 1,078
    They may yet.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    They should ve killed Felix in every film.

    Kind of like that Kenny kid from South Park. I’d like that; each film has to be more and more creative in how they kill Felix.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Yea, and it wasn't because they were racist they killed off Felix. It's just because they were daft, that's all.

    That conclusion of yours sounds daft.

    ;)
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