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After seeing the film, I could see those members forming their opinions like this:
Hater 1: Yea, it's quite decent, but not one of the best.
Hater 2: Just watched the film.....And I liked it!
Hater 3: Nah, Bond's dead, not going to watch it again, but it's a lot better than (insert a Bond film that they hated the most)
Hater 4: My God! This film made me cry!
Hater 5: Woke! Fleming, Cubby, and Connery (does Connery care after all? 8-| ), would be rolling in their graves, and yes, I've read the books!
:))
Ah yes, the FFF or Flaming Fleming Fallacy; the argument that if it ain't Fleming, it ain't Bond. Because
Certainly a missed opportunity for a classic John Glen-style animal scare.
Something like Bond just looking deep in thought before the raid on Safin's Island, given his fate it would have been fitting. Rather than him joking around with Q and Nomi given the danger his family are in.
There was a moment in Skyfall when he's looking out before M drops the F bomb were he's deep in thought and gears the audience up for some ominous danger. Plus it would be a signal to the audience that Bond might not make it back from this mission
Yes, Something of that ilk. Craig's Bond making the audience feel the impending danger. I think the reason for NTTD's uneven tone is, because they prioritized Bond's death even before the script's birth, so they weren't entirely meticulous towards other aspects of the film. I'm not an exact fan of a dying Bond, but if the film maintained the tone of the opening Norway and Matera scenes, Bond's death would have worked. Also very wrong directing, that Bond jokes with Q and Nomi, when he should be immensely worried about his family in the hands of an evil man. Wow!...just wow! Although, I like the way M gave them his instructions on the plane before the jokes started.
Also, we often talk about how pacy the film is. It's pacy because most of the film's scenes or locations are over too quickly, especially the action scenes. It would have been nice to show Bond use the spear gun in Jamaica in an underwater scene, maybe Bond Vs a Shark that interrupts his hunting, before he eventually succeeds. Also, show him in his house in Jamaica alone and brooding with a drink, because this is a film, he dies, so this is a Bond film Craig's Bond should have really done intense brooding the most. Also, critics aren't wrong when they often malign Michael Bay's films for his fast camera style and quick-cutting, but Bay's films immerses the viewer deeply into the detailed action. Not saying Bay is the best director, but for a director renowned for his fast shooting and fast-cutting style, his action scenes don't end too quickly like it does in NTTD.
A lot of lighthearted comedy didn't land with me and it's only got worse upon each viewing. That part on the plane especially, it just felt so out of place. Bond looked so despondent when Nomi picked him up, so to see them joking in the plane was annoying if anything.
@SomethingThatAteHim that's it mate. I enjoy bits of NTTD, but I can't buy into certain situations because it's not built up enough. The humour undercuts the severity of situations too often, for cheap laughs. I haven't seen The Batman, but I've heard nothing but good things
Agreed.
Lovely. 😄
But, @ColonelAdamski, I am surprised that you never returned to your superhero comments from a few pages back, to which others and myself have taken a lot of time to respond. I mean, it's easy to drop clumsy remarks and then stay away for a few days and hope that the case has closed itself. Unless, of course, your silence means that you stand corrected, in which case I am glad that is how things turned out. 😉
That is why “James Bond will return” is said at the end of NTTD, because the producers have confidence in audiences understanding the conceit that each actor is essentially a reboot and that there will be no major fuss or confusion.
Go on some of the Facebook groups. There's a decent amount of confusion.
A lot of people on here have expressed confusion as to how he can die and yet 'Will Return'.
I agree that the general audience will cope with it just fine though.
I can be guilty of FFF, but even I'm realistic that they cannot fully adopt any of the books anymore, as they are now very dated.
However, what I would like to see is a return to Fleming scenes dropped into an original story (80's Maibaum/Glen got this down to a tee with FYEO, OP, TLD, LTK).
I also think LTK felt like the entire script was adapted from a Fleming novel, even though it wasn't, probably down to Dalton being a fan of the books so pushed for a return to that kind of tone.
CR worked too, managing to update and modernise a Fleming book written back in 1952. So going back to the source can work, if done properly.
I saw what you wrote, and you seemed to take what I'd written quite personally, as if I'd questioned your 'fan credentials', which I don't think I did. But I couldn't see any point responding because everyone here could see what I wrote (which was hardly contentious), and make up their own mind about whether I needed chastising.
Regardless of NTTD, for the benefit of younger or naive visitors, I feel honourbound to point out that that is not how sex or making babies works. One time can indeed be plenty, duration is not really a consideration. XD
Indeed, it won't, which is why the fearmongering about NTTD cementing some sort of a definitive template for all future films to come is absurd.
Depending on how well the next Bond film does, both in terms of praise from fans/critics, and at the BO, could have an affect on how NTTD is perceived when looking back.
DAD probably had its fans at the time, but once CR was released, DAD was (quite rightly) universally knocked from just about every quarter of the planet, when comparing it to the newly rebooted fresh take on Bond.
But I still have the originals to enjoy if I want some basic escapist fun, and I suppose 99% of cinema goers aren't nearly as invested as some people here. It's Batman one week, Bond the next, then whatever else.
I still live in hope that with the new actor, the producers (whoever they may be) are forced into going back to basics again with the reboot, and this usually means a return to Fleming. If we have new producers they may decide to do a few things that Babs and Mickey haven't been able to do in recent years. And that would be adapting unused Fleming material.
Ideally I'd like a story that incorporated MR, DAF, TSWLM and TMWTGG scenes, but if not then a full adaptation of one of the Horowitz novels (makes sense to do Forever and a Day). Again, new producers may deem it necessary to start licensing the novels now for adaptation, likewise sort out the legal restrictions on TSWLM.
The times are changing. Cinema isn't what it used to be. A lot of (sometimes really good) material is being siphoned off to TV series and films for streaming services. Filmmakers interested in profitably bringing expensive pictures to the traditional 'big screens' have to re-think their strategies. The Bonds are no exception. Perhaps more films but with more modest budgets? With an ounce of luck, the changing times will set the EON films on a path that will please us all.