NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2022 Posts: 3,789
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wonder what happened to the members who spent the better part of Fall and Winter ranting about NTTD like there's no tomorrow, only to confess they had neither seen the film nor planned to. That was an interesting, somewhat surreal "first reactions" experience. I'm curious about their current reactions. More deconstruction of a film they haven't seen?

    After seeing the film, I could see those members forming their opinions like this:

    Hater 1: Yea, it's quite decent, but not one of the best.
    Hater 2: Just watched the film.....And I liked it!
    Hater 3: Nah, Bond's dead, not going to watch it again, but it's a lot better than (insert a Bond film that they hated the most)
    Hater 4: My God! This film made me cry!
    Hater 5: Woke! Fleming, Cubby, and Connery (does Connery care after all? 8-| ), would be rolling in their graves, and yes, I've read the books!

    :))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wonder what happened to the members who spent the better part of Fall and Winter ranting about NTTD like there's no tomorrow, only to confess they had neither seen the film nor planned to. That was an interesting, somewhat surreal "first reactions" experience. I'm curious about their current reactions. More deconstruction of a film they haven't seen?

    After seeing the film, I could see those members forming their opinions like this:

    Hater 1: Yea, it's quite decent, but not one of the best.
    Hater 2: Just watched the film.....And I liked it!
    Hater 3: Nah, Bond's dead, not going to watch it again, but it's a lot better than (insert a Bond film that they hated the most)
    Hater 4: My God! This film made me cry!
    Hater 5: Woke! Fleming, Cubby, and Connery (does Connery care after all? 8-| ), would be rolling in their graves, and yes, I've read the books!

    :))

    Ah yes, the FFF or Flaming Fleming Fallacy; the argument that if it ain't Fleming, it ain't Bond. Because
    • books and films are the same;
    • it's a crime to deviate from source material that was written between six and seven decades ago;
    • the other Bond films followed Fleming to a fault.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    Was greatly disappointed with the scene of Bond carrying dead snapper along the jetty.

    Certainly a missed opportunity for a classic John Glen-style animal scare.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    One thing I'm surprised about, is given how much they reference OHMSS I'm surprised they didn't try to recreate or re-imagine that wonderful shot of Bond in the helicopter looking pensive before the raid on Piz Gloria.

    Something like Bond just looking deep in thought before the raid on Safin's Island, given his fate it would have been fitting. Rather than him joking around with Q and Nomi given the danger his family are in.

    There was a moment in Skyfall when he's looking out before M drops the F bomb were he's deep in thought and gears the audience up for some ominous danger. Plus it would be a signal to the audience that Bond might not make it back from this mission
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I would've loved to have seen something like that, @Jordo007, and it wouldn't take up much more runtime (especially if they cut out some lighthearted comedy in favor of it). That scene in SF is one of my favorites from the film.
  • Yes one of my problems with NTTD is its uneven tone and relentless pace. We’re given very little time to just sit with the characters and take in how they’re feeling at any given point and some of the comedic beats really felt at odds with the heightened tragic drama they were going for. Something I liked about The Batman by comparison was that it really allowed the film to breathe and though there was a good amount of comedic beats they felt better integrated into the situations.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited July 2022 Posts: 554
    Yes one of my problems with NTTD is its uneven tone and relentless pace. We’re given very little time to just sit with the characters and take in how they’re feeling at any given point and some of the comedic beats really felt at odds with the heightened tragic drama they were going for. Something I liked about The Batman by comparison was that it really allowed the film to breathe and though there was a good amount of comedic beats they felt better integrated into the situations.
    One of the best scenes was Bond just staring at the cigar he got for Felix in the lifeboat.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited July 2022 Posts: 4,247
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    One thing I'm surprised about, is given how much they reference OHMSS I'm surprised they didn't try to recreate or re-imagine that wonderful shot of Bond in the helicopter looking pensive before the raid on Piz Gloria.

    Something like Bond just looking deep in thought before the raid on Safin's Island, given his fate it would have been fitting. Rather than him joking around with Q and Nomi given the danger his family are in.

    There was a moment in Skyfall when he's looking out before M drops the F bomb were he's deep in thought and gears the audience up for some ominous danger. Plus it would be a signal to the audience that Bond might not make it back from this mission

    Yes, Something of that ilk. Craig's Bond making the audience feel the impending danger. I think the reason for NTTD's uneven tone is, because they prioritized Bond's death even before the script's birth, so they weren't entirely meticulous towards other aspects of the film. I'm not an exact fan of a dying Bond, but if the film maintained the tone of the opening Norway and Matera scenes, Bond's death would have worked. Also very wrong directing, that Bond jokes with Q and Nomi, when he should be immensely worried about his family in the hands of an evil man. Wow!...just wow! Although, I like the way M gave them his instructions on the plane before the jokes started.

    Also, we often talk about how pacy the film is. It's pacy because most of the film's scenes or locations are over too quickly, especially the action scenes. It would have been nice to show Bond use the spear gun in Jamaica in an underwater scene, maybe Bond Vs a Shark that interrupts his hunting, before he eventually succeeds. Also, show him in his house in Jamaica alone and brooding with a drink, because this is a film, he dies, so this is a Bond film Craig's Bond should have really done intense brooding the most. Also, critics aren't wrong when they often malign Michael Bay's films for his fast camera style and quick-cutting, but Bay's films immerses the viewer deeply into the detailed action. Not saying Bay is the best director, but for a director renowned for his fast shooting and fast-cutting style, his action scenes don't end too quickly like it does in NTTD.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    @Creasy47 absolutely mate. It need something to just show us the audience that this is a dangerous mission and potentially suicidal for our hero

    A lot of lighthearted comedy didn't land with me and it's only got worse upon each viewing. That part on the plane especially, it just felt so out of place. Bond looked so despondent when Nomi picked him up, so to see them joking in the plane was annoying if anything.

    @SomethingThatAteHim that's it mate. I enjoy bits of NTTD, but I can't buy into certain situations because it's not built up enough. The humour undercuts the severity of situations too often, for cheap laughs. I haven't seen The Batman, but I've heard nothing but good things
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Yes one of my problems with NTTD is its uneven tone and relentless pace. We’re given very little time to just sit with the characters and take in how they’re feeling at any given point and some of the comedic beats really felt at odds with the heightened tragic drama they were going for. Something I liked about The Batman by comparison was that it really allowed the film to breathe and though there was a good amount of comedic beats they felt better integrated into the situations.
    One of the best scenes was Bond just staring at the cigar he got for Felix in the lifeboat.

    Agreed.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Something like Bond just looking deep in thought before the raid on Safin's Island, given his fate it would have been fitting. Rather than him joking around with Q and Nomi given the danger his family are in.
    Yes, to say that he's just failed to stop Safin taking Madeleine and Mathilde, I thought the 'Fairly strong?!' gag was completely out of place. Another one of NTTD's lurching tonal shifts.
  • Posts: 1,987
    CrabKey wrote: »
    for an outright instant classic, I'd have to go as far back as OHMSS, then after that LTK, then CR. 3 films that are stone wall bona fide classics in a span of 50 odd years ain't great.

    Despite the absence of my favorite Bond actor, OHMSS and CR are the best two films of the series. Two great actresses, neither of whom I consider Bond girls, but Bond women equal to or better than their co-stars. Both fully evolved characters created from writing that is all too rare in Bond films. For me the first four films remain the blueprint for a series that has never managed to recapture what made those films special.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Even Connery had the sense not to kill the character.

    "Cubby, I've got a shuper idea!"
    "What's that, Sean?"
    "Well in the next film, we'll kill James Bond off"
    "We can't do that, we want this series to carry on as long as we can"
    "That's okay, it'll be my last one, just cast another actor for the next one"
    "To play who?"
    "James Bond"
    "But he'll be dead!"
    "No, it'll be a new character arc"
    "What the hell's that?"
    "It's where one timeline stops and another starts"
    "Timeline? what are you on about?"
    "It'll be a reboot"
    "You want new boots?"
    "Nooo! It's a thing. You kill him, but he carries on"
    "So he doesn't die?"
    "No, one James Bond dies, then the next one starts up again"
    "Ah, the codename theory. I get it now"
    "No, it's the same character, but in a different universe"
    "But these films aren't sci-fi Sean. Have you been on the Jamesons?"
    "Och, you have no vision Cubby. It's all about taking chances and subverting the character".
    "It sounds daft"
    "But I want to have a death scene, all good actors want a death scene, I WANT HIM TO DIE!!!"
    "Sorry Sean, no actor is bigger than James Bond. We'll go for the flaming kebabs and bomb in a cake idea. Thanks for stopping by, and your new toupee's on the hat rack, you can grab it on the way out".

    Lovely. 😄

    But, @ColonelAdamski, I am surprised that you never returned to your superhero comments from a few pages back, to which others and myself have taken a lot of time to respond. I mean, it's easy to drop clumsy remarks and then stay away for a few days and hope that the case has closed itself. Unless, of course, your silence means that you stand corrected, in which case I am glad that is how things turned out. 😉
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Michael G Wilson has already been saying as far back as 1994 that he views each of the actors as separate iterations of Bond. There may be rare references here and there to previous films with different actors, and supporting actors carry over, but in Wilson’s view Pierce Brosnan wasn’t playing the same Bond character as Roger Moore, just as Roger Moore wasn’t playing the same Bond character as Sean Connery. With Craig, it was the most overt reboot, aside from Judi Dench carrying over. Now we’re gonna get that with the seventh Bond actor, however they decide to pull it off.

    That is why “James Bond will return” is said at the end of NTTD, because the producers have confidence in audiences understanding the conceit that each actor is essentially a reboot and that there will be no major fuss or confusion.
  • Posts: 2,161
    That’s all obvious. No one’s confused. It’s just a matter of taste. Your general audience doesn’t care enough to be confused.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That’s all obvious. No one’s confused. It’s just a matter of taste. Your general audience doesn’t care enough to be confused.

    Go on some of the Facebook groups. There's a decent amount of confusion.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2022 Posts: 1,711
    Gentlemen, you're both right. General audiences don't care and they are also confused. :))
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2022 Posts: 16,383
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That’s all obvious. No one’s confused. It’s just a matter of taste. Your general audience doesn’t care enough to be confused.

    A lot of people on here have expressed confusion as to how he can die and yet 'Will Return'.
    I agree that the general audience will cope with it just fine though.
  • Posts: 3,327
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wonder what happened to the members who spent the better part of Fall and Winter ranting about NTTD like there's no tomorrow, only to confess they had neither seen the film nor planned to. That was an interesting, somewhat surreal "first reactions" experience. I'm curious about their current reactions. More deconstruction of a film they haven't seen?

    After seeing the film, I could see those members forming their opinions like this:

    Hater 1: Yea, it's quite decent, but not one of the best.
    Hater 2: Just watched the film.....And I liked it!
    Hater 3: Nah, Bond's dead, not going to watch it again, but it's a lot better than (insert a Bond film that they hated the most)
    Hater 4: My God! This film made me cry!
    Hater 5: Woke! Fleming, Cubby, and Connery (does Connery care after all? 8-| ), would be rolling in their graves, and yes, I've read the books!

    :))

    Ah yes, the FFF or Flaming Fleming Fallacy; the argument that if it ain't Fleming, it ain't Bond. Because
    • books and films are the same;
    • it's a crime to deviate from source material that was written between six and seven decades ago;
    • the other Bond films followed Fleming to a fault.

    I can be guilty of FFF, but even I'm realistic that they cannot fully adopt any of the books anymore, as they are now very dated.

    However, what I would like to see is a return to Fleming scenes dropped into an original story (80's Maibaum/Glen got this down to a tee with FYEO, OP, TLD, LTK).

    I also think LTK felt like the entire script was adapted from a Fleming novel, even though it wasn't, probably down to Dalton being a fan of the books so pushed for a return to that kind of tone.

    CR worked too, managing to update and modernise a Fleming book written back in 1952. So going back to the source can work, if done properly.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 1,078
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    But, @ColonelAdamski, I am surprised that you never returned to your superhero comments from a few pages back, to which others and myself have taken a lot of time to respond. I mean, it's easy to drop clumsy remarks and then stay away for a few days and hope that the case has closed itself. Unless, of course, your silence means that you stand corrected, in which case I am glad that is how things turned out. 😉

    I saw what you wrote, and you seemed to take what I'd written quite personally, as if I'd questioned your 'fan credentials', which I don't think I did. But I couldn't see any point responding because everyone here could see what I wrote (which was hardly contentious), and make up their own mind about whether I needed chastising.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    I am glad that's settled then.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 1,078
    :)
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    I finally sat down for my second viewing of NTTD the other day, wondering if I would warm up to it this time. The short answer is no, unfortunately I did not. I still find it to be one of my least favorite entries in the series. I just thought I'd share a few observations.

    First off, the biggest problem (by far) with the film is that it continues the storyline from SP. From the moment I heard that Lea was coming back, I knew we were in trouble. SP was such a huge disappointment in my estimation that I knew the only way forward was to jettison it completely, whether that meant bringing in a new actor or not. If we had to continue on with Craig, then it was possible to start fresh, especially after such a long gap in between films. You could've easily thrown in a line about how it didn't work out with Madeliene. It also wouldn't have been difficult to mention Blofled's incarceration and subsequent disbanding of SPECTRE agents across the world. Just sprinkle those in somewhere along the way and give us something new. I've read some comments about how NTTD retroactively improves SP, but I must respectfully disagree. They're both stinkers.

    Getting into the review proper, the PTS is waaaay too long. I mean, by the time the thing is finally over, half of QoS' runtime is through! I can remember all the criticisms concerning TWINE's overlong PTS back in the day (not that I disagree), but I have seen nothing about NTTD anywhere. Putting aside some minor complaints about the murder of Mrs. White (due to Mr. White's comments in SP), this is actually quite well done until... Safin's miraculous recovery. I'm sorry, but how does he survive? He was hit multiple times in the torso. I guess he was wearing a bulletproof vest? It's just that this happens in a film where we are later expected to believe that Bond sacrifices himself (in part) due to his potentially fatal gunshot wounds, so it's frustrating that they seem to have no effect on Safin whatsoever. There are so many things in the film that wouldn't bother me as much, or at all in some cases, if it wasn't for that ending.

    Next up, we get to Matera and the second biggest issue I have with the film. I'm sorry, but Craig and Seydoux just don't have good chemistry together. It's another holdover from SP that many fans seem to think has improved this time around, but I must respectfully disagree. Again, I wouldn't really care as much if the film wasn't trying to convince me that these two are destined for each other and Bond eventually gives his life to save hers. Let's face it, in AVTAK (just to throw out an example) it's easier to forgive the disconnect between Moore and Roberts because it's just a fun, adventure film. No-frills, in a sense. Here, the whole premise revolves around it. I don't have a problem with either of their performances individually, but I just don't buy the love story and remain completely uninvested.

    I must give some credit where it's due and that is Craig's performance in the PTS. He's still in great shape for a man his age. He brought a physicality to the role that we haven't seen since the 60's. It still feels like I can see Bond's tortured soul when I look into Craig's eyes. The man is an incredible actor, and the next Bond has some very big shoes to fill, no doubt about it.

    The visit to Vesper's grave seemed out of place. I know that it was in Fleming, but it doesn't fit at this point in the Craig timeline. I think this scene plays out better in the PTS of SP, before Bond meets Madeliene. There is a scene I like in SP, where Bond sees Vesper's interrogation tape and tosses it aside, where we can surmise that he is (at the very least) attempting to move on. Why not have him visit the grave at the beginning of that film instead? Then he discovers SPECTRE and Oberhauser, finds Madeliene and then the routine with Vesper's tape. Now the ending with him driving off with Madeliene really feels like he has made the choice to move on. Going back to Vesper now at the beginning of NTTD is just weird. Although, I sure wouldn't be surprised if we have yet another callback to Vesper in Bond 26, as they just can't seem to help themselves!

    What's really confusing to me is how quickly Bond believes that Madeliene has betrayed him. I understand the man has trust issues and all, but still. He is going to take Blofeld's word over hers? Bolfeld? It didn't occur to him that there are still SPECTRE agents out there who might want him dead? It's just too big of a leap. It's as if he was looking for a reason to ditch her. Bond putting Madeliene on the train and telling her that she'll never see him again is about the coldest thing we've ever seen him do. Fair enough, as Craig's Bond in particular has learned that he must be cold and untrusting to survive. However, this becomes an issue for me later on when he dies for her. If there ever was a film that wanted to have its cake and eat it too, it's this one.

    I have to agree with the majority of you that the Jamaica and Cuba section is the best part of the movie. I think this is largely due to the film not being bogged down by the baggage of the SP storyline. Although, yes, I know it culminates with Blofled's birthday party. However, imagine if the film started with stealing Heracles (preferably someone else besides SPECTRE) and then we catch up with Bond for the first time in Jamaica. Felix asks for his help and we're off to the races. There was no need to shoehorn Madeliene and Blofeld in this story at all. We could have spent a lot more time with Nomi and Paloma this way too.

    Now as far as Nomi goes, she's probably my favorite part of the whole film, which is surprising considering the trailers made me think the opposite was going to be true. Just goes to show you that you have to wait and see the finished product before making any judgements. Ultimately though, she ends up being a huge missed opportunity. Someone said it way back in this thread, but the idea of Bond retiring and then returning to find out he's been replaced by a woman was an interesting idea and should've been explored more. However, the film is just too stuffed with other characters and ideas to focus on it. Lashana was great though and I wish we could've seen more of her in action, especially at the end, but I'll cover that later.

    The Blofeld scene was alright. Waltz is still doing the jealous brother act, but thankfully it's been tamed down this time around. However, his death is completely unsatisfying. Honestly, the fact that all of SPECTRE was eliminated so quickly was a little irritating. Blofled's death in particular though was handled quite poorly. It happens offscreen and Bond doesn't even realize what he's done. This was not a fitting end for Bond's archnemesis, even the Waltz version.

    Now, let's talk about Safin. It must be said that Rami Malek gives an incredibly weak performance, there's just no getting around it. I think it very well might be the worst (for a main villain) in the entire series. Which is a shame, because I don't think he's a bad actor. The only other thing I've seen him in is Bohemian Rhapsody and he was great in that. I have no idea what he's going for here. He has no presence. All I can see is him "acting" like a deranged individual. It comes off as very forced and unnatural. I was on the fence after my first viewing, but this sealed it. Again, it's only accentuated by the fact that this is (finally) the guy to have mortally wounded Bond, both physically and psychologically.

    I think it was a mistake for him to achieve his lifelong ambition to eliminate SPECTRE so early on in the film, because after that we have no idea what's motivating him. He seems to want Madeliene and Mathilde to be his family, I suppose? He has a few vague lines about power and making the world a better place, but there is no clear explanation of why he wants to unleash the nanobots. Is it about the money? Is he mad? Your guess is as good as mine.

    It really bothers me that Nomi was taken out of the action just to guide Madeliene and Mathilde to safety off the island. I understand the importance of saving the innocent civilians, but she's a 00 agent and she should've been there with Bond until the end, especially on a mission that was deemed so important. However, the script says that Bond must die so she conveniently gets out of the way. Nothing was more important to M than shutting down Heracles and I can't believe he'd have one of his agents just sitting around babysitting. No, if you have another 00 available, then you'd better get her back to that island to join the fight. They were on the verge of starting an "international incident" after all.

    Finally, Bond's death still seems forced. I know they explained about the nanobots being forever and all that, but Bond just seems to give up at a moment's notice. He wants to save his family, but yet in the PTS he had no qualms whatsoever with abandoning Madeliene (and the child in her womb?) and going off to live the bachelor life in Jamaica. In fact, he's lived the majority of his life without the two of them and he's been just fine. Of course, having a child changes a person, hopefully for the better, and I understand the film wants us to believe he's sacrificing himself for them, but... I just don't buy it.

    It would be more Bond's style to make everyone think he perished when he actually escaped to another remote part of the world and just maybe, in the meantime, he contacts Q and the genius quartermaster has found an antidote to the nanobots. What about Bond's gunshot wounds? Well, this is the same man who survived being shot and falling from a great height and somehow not drowning in the PTS of Skyfall, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he could have survived this, but then again that would actually require trying. This time Bond wants to give up. Maybe he's tired of it all?

    I know I'm in the minority here, but there's just not much I enjoyed about the film. It did not earn the right to have all the OHMSS nods and playing WHATTITW at the end credits was just confusing. It only made me think of OHMSS. So, thank goodness the Craig era is finally over. I will forever be grateful for how he helped to revitalize Bond back in 2006, but his last two films just aren't for me. I haven't truly enjoyed a Bond film now since 2012. I know some of you have a strong dislike for QoS and (to a lesser extent) SF and I love those two, so we're all different and that's okay. Here's hoping the next one is better.

    What a great write up man! I agree with every word, we have almost the same feelings towards this film.

    Agreed with this review 👍

    1. I would enjoy it too had it been a stand-alone film, I think it would be good if Blofeld's comeuppance remained somewhat vague, that he'd been arrested and it would be left to the viewers' imaginations, like whatever happened to him was purely a speculation from the fans, and it's unique in the sense that he might be the first Bond 'Main' Villain to live another day.

    2. Yes, really agreed about the whole Madeleine arc, it would be refreshing too had they said that it didn't worked out, typical like in the books where his relationship with Tiffany Case didn't worked, it's a move from the books that they still hadn't done yet, it would be refreshing to see instead of killing her off.

    3. The child thing was quite a bit questionable for me these days, like okay Bond and Madeleine had sex ok, but it's too brief. What I mean here was Bond had sex with so many women and more explicit and longer than that with Madeleine, and in that sudden quick they have a child together?! For sure Bond already fathered more child before, and that torture scene in Casino Royale should make It hard for him to have a child at least, it should take maybe more weeks of sex before they could even have a child.

    4. When it comes to Vesper, I don't like both either references to SP and NTTD, because for me, Bond already found his peace of mind at the ending of Quantum of Solace, she's even not that mentioned in Skyfall, means we expect Bond to move on from it, then to have her reference back in SP and him visiting her grave didn't made sense. So are they're saying here that QoS was really a mistake? Like all of what happened in that film was just nothing because Bond couldn't still move on from her death?

    5. When it comes to PTS it's just a nitpickery from the filmmakers here, like who remembers that little backstory that Madeleine told in the train? I suspect no one remember it not even you mate, so to expand it here, magnified it here and made it more complicated was pure nonsense, there so many back stories from the other Bond Girls In the franchise that they didn't explored, but picked this one where no one even remembers it?

    6. Agreed about Nomi taken out of the action, I understand that it's still Bond but it's also unbelievable to me that a 50+ years old something old man could take up a whole batallion in that base, without any help? And this was also the man who's been out of service and never got any training for 5 years, and yet could still eliminate all of Safin's armed men?! Unbelievable. And also Madeleine could take it all by herself without the need of Nomi, so why Nomi went with them? She's still a 00 Agent and Madeleine could take care all of that by herself, that babysitting thing and etc.

    7. Bond's death for me was an overkill, Safin shot him many times and he could die from it, maybe those gunshots would make him a bit slow and weak and him getting out of island would ran out of time, and it's a lot more acceptable rather than that of Nanobots Are Forever nonsense.

    All in all, it's a nonsense, over complicated film for me, and yes the main thing that ruined this film for me was it being a continuation of SP.

    This film in my opinion should be just a stand-alone mission about Bond, Nomi, Paloma and Safin and his nanobots.

    Regardless of NTTD, for the benefit of younger or naive visitors, I feel honourbound to point out that that is not how sex or making babies works. One time can indeed be plenty, duration is not really a consideration. XD
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    None of it will matter by the time the next film arrives.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    None of it will matter by the time the next film arrives.

    Indeed, it won't, which is why the fearmongering about NTTD cementing some sort of a definitive template for all future films to come is absurd.
  • Posts: 3,327
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    None of it will matter by the time the next film arrives.

    Indeed, it won't, which is why the fearmongering about NTTD cementing some sort of a definitive template for all future films to come is absurd.

    Depending on how well the next Bond film does, both in terms of praise from fans/critics, and at the BO, could have an affect on how NTTD is perceived when looking back.

    DAD probably had its fans at the time, but once CR was released, DAD was (quite rightly) universally knocked from just about every quarter of the planet, when comparing it to the newly rebooted fresh take on Bond.
  • Posts: 1,078
    I think for some people, the damage to the series' credibility has already been done. I certainly have less faith that the Bond series will continue in a way that I used to enjoy.
    But I still have the originals to enjoy if I want some basic escapist fun, and I suppose 99% of cinema goers aren't nearly as invested as some people here. It's Batman one week, Bond the next, then whatever else.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 3,327
    I think for some people, the damage to the series' credibility has already been done. I certainly have less faith that the Bond series will continue in a way that I used to enjoy.
    But I still have the originals to enjoy if I want some basic escapist fun, and I suppose 99% of cinema goers aren't nearly as invested as some people here. It's Batman one week, Bond the next, then whatever else.

    I still live in hope that with the new actor, the producers (whoever they may be) are forced into going back to basics again with the reboot, and this usually means a return to Fleming. If we have new producers they may decide to do a few things that Babs and Mickey haven't been able to do in recent years. And that would be adapting unused Fleming material.

    Ideally I'd like a story that incorporated MR, DAF, TSWLM and TMWTGG scenes, but if not then a full adaptation of one of the Horowitz novels (makes sense to do Forever and a Day). Again, new producers may deem it necessary to start licensing the novels now for adaptation, likewise sort out the legal restrictions on TSWLM.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2022 Posts: 24,179
    I think for some people, the damage to the series' credibility has already been done. I certainly have less faith that the Bond series will continue in a way that I used to enjoy.
    But I still have the originals to enjoy if I want some basic escapist fun, and I suppose 99% of cinema goers aren't nearly as invested as some people here. It's Batman one week, Bond the next, then whatever else.

    The times are changing. Cinema isn't what it used to be. A lot of (sometimes really good) material is being siphoned off to TV series and films for streaming services. Filmmakers interested in profitably bringing expensive pictures to the traditional 'big screens' have to re-think their strategies. The Bonds are no exception. Perhaps more films but with more modest budgets? With an ounce of luck, the changing times will set the EON films on a path that will please us all.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Unfortunately @DarthDimi , no matter what EoN does, it will never satisfy all of this fan-base. I’m still taken aback by the negative reactions for NTTD. It’s like some have taken it personally— as if the creatives (from the lead actor, to the producers, to the distributors (who have to sign off on everything since they’re selling to the marketplace), went out of their way to purposefully tick them off (instead of seeing this was a creative choice that they all agreed would work to end this era)!
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