NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    I was trying to get my head around why Bond's death has not worked at all for me and I think it is because it isn't a heroic death.

    If you compare it to Avengers Endgame, Tony Stark *chose* to sacrifice himself to save the day and thwart the villain. Thanos died knowing he was defeated by Stark and his plan failed. Stark beat Thanos.

    In NTTD, Bond getting shot by Safin while running across the room isn't heroic. Safin died knowing he succeeded in keeping Bond separated from his family. Bond didn't choose to die, instead he was bested by the villain. Accepting his fate on that rooftop wasn't an heroic act of self sacrifice.

    On the other hand, if the ending of NTTD involved Bond *making a choice* to defeat Safin by heroically sacrificing himself to prevent millions from being infected, that would have been a more satisfying and appropriate death. Bond could say to Madeline that he truly wants to be with her and their daughter but he is ultimately a servant of queen and country and must die to prevent millions of other from dying. That would have been so much more palatable, true to his character, and also still give Craig the opportunity for a poignant end scene.

    As it is, when Bond sees the blast doors closing, he doesn't realize at that point he is going to his death. It isn't a sacrifice at that stage. That opportunity for sacrifice was taken from him because Safin beat him.

    I didn't want Stark to die in Endgame but they pulled it off perfectly and I was very satisfied by that writing. It was a very fine line to walk and I don't think the writers of NTTD were able to do it.

    The hero making the choice to sacrifice themselves for the greater good versus being suddenly gunned down makes the world of difference.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    I was trying to get my head around why Bond's death has not worked at all for me and I think it is because it isn't a heroic death.

    I mean.... he did save the world.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Okay...I've seen it twice and feel I can now really contextualise my thoughts.

    NTTD, at heart, is a traditional Bond film, and that’s part of its pleasures. For a large part of its runtime, NTTD is actually a fun and entertaining film. The extra kicker is that the movie wants to do full justice to the emotional thrust of this being Daniel Craig’s exit from the series. And it does.

    It's quite brave that they doubled down on the mythology from the Craig era. In this respect the film has a cumulative impact that, at times, is reminiscent of The Dark Knight Rises.

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    The opening is terrific. Fukunaga bravely wrong-foots the audience with the introduction in Norway and the sequence is rather haunting. It's involving as the young Madeleine (excellently played by Coline Defaud) is sympathetic and clearly outmatched. The sinister introduction for Safin is also note perfect. The match-cut to Matera is expertly handled and the entire opening sequence is just about the best action setpiece to kick off a Bond film there has been. You have to hand it to Cary Fukunaga for reintroducing the spectre of Vesper for that sequence; it makes Madeleine's 'betrayal' so much more impactful. The best part of the action sequence is that beat inside the car where Madeleine begs Bond to act yet he sits stony faced. It's such a tense bit of character work in the middle of a noisy action sequence.

    The titles are a little disappointing. I couldn't get over quite how 'meh' they were. Some images are evocative and compelling. But so much of it feels pared down and uneventful. It's a shame as Billie Eilish's song is so good - but the images are not elevated by the song.

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    I suppose this feels like the perfect point to discuss Daniel Craig. He has a gift of a role to play this time. I have to say, Craig is seriously excellent in this film. It's up there with CR as his best performance as Bond. Firstly, he looks terrific as the wizened, rough spy. He wears his years well and has that leathery ruggedness to him. He's very convincing as the worldweary spy and killer. The deep lines to his face marking those vivid blue eyes have always had a weary sentiment. They’re flexed to a sharpened effect here as the apparent scars only make each punch feel harder, each kick more difficult to recover from. Linus Sandgren frames Craig as the battle-scarred soldier back from war (DC owes Linus a drink as he photographs him lovingly throughout NTTD).

    Craig is having more fun in NTTD and his performance feels looser, more charismatic than ever (dare I even say a little camp). Equally, he's perfect as the stoic, romantic hero. There is a great feeling of finality to his performance, which is aided perfectly by a very game Fukunaga - who isn't afraid to make Bond vulnerable, angry and (as Blofeld says) sensitive.

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    Fukunaga himself is in seriously good form here. You can see his fingerprints. Especially in the themes (childhood trauma, cycles of violence and nature of time) and the filmmaking craft on display. There is some seriously elegant filmmaking on show here. Also, Fukunaga adds shocks of excitement by employing his rough and tumble, one-camera guerilla-style. That missile silo scene imbues the typically slick Bond with a dirty, visceral edge. It also matches Craig’s brawling style better than any other director he has had in the series.

    With Fukunaga at the helm, NTTD aptly balances the franchise’s classic construct yet totally remakes what a Bond movie can be for a fitting, touching end to Craig’s tenure. The film is clearly hinting at OHMSS, but it's really YOLT and TSWLM that Fukunaga is aping. His handling of the relationship with Madeleine feels authentic - Seydoux is as dependently excellent as ever. However, the real performance that wins the film comes in the unexpected form of Lisa-Dorah Sonnet as Mathilde. She's so charming and cute. You can see why Bond actually allows himself to contemplate a life outside of MI6 for her.

    Which brings me to that scene. Personally, I loved it. When I saw they were doing it I was totally sold. My heart broke when I saw Safin shoot Bond (something that no villain in 25 films had thought to do) and then poison 007. Craig plays that sequence perfectly; never allowing Bond seem like the victim. It has an almost poetic grace to it. When the missiles landed, I really felt something hit me in the chest emotionally. The ending is perfectly in tune with the sentiment established by Ian Fleming: Bond lives in the shadows and has resigned himself with the knowledge that men like him do not get normal lives. Often Bond would dream about being normal, but know that he had to play the role expected of him. The tragedy for Bond in NTTD, is that he starts as a man without a reason to live and ends with a family worth dying for. The film cruelly reminds Bond that he cannot have a normal life. It's truly heartbreaking. The Louis Armstrong song perfectly adds some honey to that brutal ending.

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    The film is not perfect though. It's positively drowning in plot and much of the convoluted ideas didn't really come into focus until a second viewing. The simple issue is that Heracles is just silly spy movie nonsense. The internal logic surrounding the device are confusing and illogical. It's a bit daft and feels more like something from a Mission Impossible or Marvel film - perhaps too fantastical for the Craig-era. I cannot fault them for thinking that a global pandemic was a more interesting device than the villain having an atomic bomb or whatever (it's way more timely than we would have thought), but the instantaneous and corny way people died was a bit lame.

    There's a cartoonish grandeur to NTTD. At times it feels like 'a bit too much' - especially when they introduce so many gadgets and other silly elements (I'm looking at you Blofeld's magic eyeball). These moments are at odds tonally with the more serious movie NTTD wants to be. In this respect, the film is slightly uneven.

    The film's attempts at humour are also pretty bad - especially every scene with David Denick. If you're looking for scenes to cut in this almost three hour film, then you should start there. However, Ben Whishaw is once again the MVP and makes the film particularly funny. His chemistry with Craig is excellent. Ralph Fiennes delivers a marvellous turn as M. His involvement in creating Heracles gives the character some meat to deal with. Naomie Harris is wasted (remember, she even went to Jamaica to promote the launch).

    In respect to the new ladies: Paloma is terrific. The espionage logistics between Bond and her are so impeccably timed that they give off a ripe erotic charge. Lashana Lynch is great as Nomi. However, I really wanted to love her character and I just didn't. I feel they wasted the potential friction between having the new and old 007 going head to head. Initially, there is some fun one-upmanship, but it fizzles out with Nomi becoming too deferential to Bond. She is not helped by the fact that she gets lost in the middle of the film. It's shame as Nomi kicks arse, but perhaps suffers as the film is overstuffed with characters.

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    The jury was a little out on Rami Malek after my first viewing. The people I saw the film with the second time weren't impressed, but I think I like his performance. Malek is suitably creepy and clearly underplaying it (but somehow still chewing the scenery). His dialogue scenes are pretty interesting and he's compelling. I kinda wish Safin had a better motivation. Nevertheless, he has a brilliant lair, a sinister mask and a great costume. That final scene with him and Bond is a hall of fame moment for me.

    NTTD is ridiculously watchable entertainment which feels like half its actual running time. Craig is at his most real and emotionally bruised. He never lets you forget that there’s a wounded, vulnerable human being beneath the licensed-to-kill MI6 agent. The movie’s big issue is that it's uneven - both silly and serious. It’s not until the last act when Craig takes the wheel that NTTD finds its emotional balance. It's an interesting choice by Fukunaga - in that NTTD is preposterousness but also touching and surprising.

    Simply put, NTTD cements Daniel Craig has the definitive James Bond. Craig leaves it all on the field and goes above and beyond in every scene. For that alone, it gets the 5 star treatment.

    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐/5

    Wonderful review!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So well said. Thank you, @Pierce2Daniel. I am seeing it again tomorrow and then will try to get my thoughts written down. I usually don't change my opinion much from my first impressions. I feel that NTTD is a very good Bond film. And certainly bold, a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond's story arc.

    I want to just add that I felt Lea was much stronger in this one than in Spectre, and her choices as an actor were so very good throughout the film. Even just that moment in the car, as the bullet proof glass is finally starting to crack under assault, that look and gesture of her face - as she looked unwaveringly at Bond, asking him to do something - were perfect, so real and just gritty; believably in the moment. Not one ounce of "pretty Bond girl in peril" as we have had many times before; just real.
  • Posts: 831
    Brilliant writeup @Pierce2Daniel and I agree with much of it -- although I loved the Dencik scenes and his humour. ;)
  • Posts: 2,402
    Two fairly minor details that I haven't mentioned that I also adore about the film:

    Bond getting grazed by a bullet in the PTS (this was part of the clip shown on Fallon, apparently, though I deliberately avoided that at the time) and barely flinching.

    The way the interrogation of Dr. Dickwad (his character's name is like the one big detail I forgot about NTTD, but the scientist guy) on the ship escalates and escalates and how Billy Magnussen gets to ramp up his performance until suddenly the gun comes out
    and Felix takes a bullet.
  • Posts: 486
    I'm the reverse on that. A Bond whom didn't need to die, whom had a family to make a life with choosing to stay back and sacrifice his life wouldn't ring true. I tend to hate self-sacrifices at the best of time in drama, especially all the cliche of a character staying back to 'hold them off'.

    We had something a little more original here. As Safin described he had similar motivations to Bond, eliminate SPECTRE and live his life out with Madeline. In that respect Safin didn't particularly 'beat Bond' as he he suffered the same outcome as a result of being poisoned.

    Consequently I'm a little unsure yet as to whether Safin deliberately broke the phial or whether it was a consequence of their tussle. Makes you think of Bond's fight with Chang in MR in which the glass phial in his breast pocket miraculously stayed intact or otherwise Bond would have died immediately.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Cowley wrote: »
    I'm the reverse on that. A Bond whom didn't need to die, whom had a family to make a life with choosing to stay back and sacrifice his life wouldn't ring true. I tend to hate self-sacrifices at the best of time in drama, especially all the cliche of a character staying back to 'hold them off'.

    We had something a little more original here. As Safin described he had similar motivations to Bond, eliminate SPECTRE and live his life out with Madeline. In that respect Safin didn't particularly 'beat Bond' as he he suffered the same outcome as a result of being poisoned.

    Consequently I'm a little unsure yet as to whether Safin deliberately broke the phial or whether it was a consequence of their tussle. Makes you think of Bond's fight with Chang in MR in which the glass phial in his breast pocket miraculously stayed intact or otherwise Bond would have died immediately.

    He sort of deliberately smashes it against the side of Bond's temple, doesn't he?
  • JohnBarryJohnBarry Dublin
    Posts: 34
    On second viewing, I saw a brief moment in their tussle when Safin deliberately scraped the vial across Bond's face.
  • Posts: 486
    He sort of deliberately smashes it against the side of Bond's temple, doesn't he?

    Ah thanks. Will look more keenly for that next time round. In which case Safin sealed his own fate then and there.

    I found Safin an interesting villain overall. I prefer the underplayed performance style to the OTT nature of Silva. There's a sense of sorrow to Safin. First villain to elicit a little sympathy from me since Sanchez.
  • Posts: 342
    tqb wrote: »
    Completely agree @Pierce2Daniel

    Craig's tenure as literally left the door open for and proven the the producers can do what they want. I love Bond but keeping everything formulaic all the time will make it go stale. He has needed to evolve to survive, and that's what Craig has done.

    No offence meant but your last line is bonkers!
    He needed to evolve to survive, and that's what Craig has done.

    Seeing as he didn't survive how can Craig have done what you claim? Bond needed to evolve to survive... but he died so how has he survived?

    Your comment is completely paradoxical/nonsensical.

  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    tqb wrote: »
    Completely agree @Pierce2Daniel

    Craig's tenure as literally left the door open for and proven the the producers can do what they want. I love Bond but keeping everything formulaic all the time will make it go stale. He has needed to evolve to survive, and that's what Craig has done.

    You can be unformulatic at times and still not kill of your main character.
  • Posts: 82
    I really don’t see how they come back from this with an 007 called JB. As well as keeping the Mi6 crew they’ve carefully assembled. Because all the kind of alternates as heroes has been done in the comics and it never works. Captain America has to be Steve Rogers, etc, accept no substitute. It would be unconvincing to de-Bond Bond by for example giving the number to a Nomi (again).I think DC has blown it up good and proper. I can’t decide if that makes him cool or not ;). Certainly makes him bigger than the series. Not sure I like that. Respect to him though. Reckon he’ll ever tell? ;)
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,641
    @JohnBarry Spot on mate! I agree with every word
    Bond is the ultimate survivor and to see him accept his fate, felt like betrayal of what James Bond is

    Also @Pierce2Daniel even though I don't agree with every point, that was fantastic review. Really great post
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Do you think EON had to charge themselves extra for showing Bond die on screen like they did for game developers?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,205
    I'm just out of it and unfortunately I found it an incredibly deflating experience. I loved Craig as Bond and his performance in NTTD is exceptional but I'm really quite happy that his era is over now. It just wasn't for me, in the end.
  • ChevronChevron Northern Ireland
    Posts: 370
    Some little moments I loved...

    The Dr No homage in the credits, and I think a little of the Casino Royale credits in there too.

    And three moments, all to do with the Logan Ash character:

    1 - when they are in the boat and Bond wonders how Spectre knew he was in Cuba, then he realises and looks to Ash who changes from amiable and harmless to a killer.

    2 - in Norway when he's on the phone to MI6. They said Nomi is tracking Ash and sends him her location. He sees it's close by and says something along the lines of "I thought you said she was tracking Ash, not me." And then the penny drops. I love that moment.

    3 - Ash under the car and Bond helps it fall on him like in FYEO.

  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    Just out of my second viewing. Feel a lot less angry about the ending now lol and love most of this picture. I still wish Bond had not been poisoned, presumed dead and the last scene could've been Madeline about to tell her story to Mathilde in the hotel suite only for James to finish the line "Bond , James Bond" bookending with the last line in casino royale. Will write a long review at some point. Felt betrayed after first viewing but right now want to watch it for a third time. Will miss Dan immensely, but we have all the time in the world to watch his 5 Bond films.
  • Posts: 6,709
    I'm just out of it and unfortunately I found it an incredibly deflating experience. I loved Craig as Bond and his performance in NTTD is exceptional but I'm really quite happy that his era is over now. It just wasn't for me, in the end.

    My feelings exactly, my dear friend.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,970
    Yeah, Logan Ash was a great surprise.

    I've said this before but I really loved his little laugh after Valdo passed him the gun.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Sorry you feel like that @CraigMooreOHMSS I can only say I came out of the film feeling the same

    There's a few things that really get under my skin with NTTD, the more I think about them.

    One in particular is...
    the film finishing with Madeline not only driving Bond's car but then delivering his iconic line. To say it was anticlimactic and undeserved is an understatement. That was almost as much of a gut punch than Bond's death, because it really cemented Bond has died
  • Posts: 625
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    I was trying to get my head around why Bond's death has not worked at all for me and I think it is because it isn't a heroic death.

    Of course it's heroic.

    Bond could have shipped away with Madeleine and Mathilde and let Nomi do the rest.
    But he decided to stay and do it himself.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,205
    Univex wrote: »
    I'm just out of it and unfortunately I found it an incredibly deflating experience. I loved Craig as Bond and his performance in NTTD is exceptional but I'm really quite happy that his era is over now. It just wasn't for me, in the end.

    My feelings exactly, my dear friend.

    I applaud them for making bold choices but bold choices alone don't make a good movie. I was actually getting increasingly anxious towards the finale and I found it exhausting.

    And some of the dialogue. Christ. Not good.

    I agree with you @Jordo007. Though as an idea I don't particularly mind it - it's just that the needle drop and the delivery by Seydoux was just really poor. I know what they were trying to do, but it just left me quite annoyed.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Sorry you feel like that @CraigMooreOHMSS I can only say I came out of the film feeling the same

    There's a few things that really get under my skin with NTTD, the more I think about them.

    One in particular is...
    the film finishing with Madeline not only driving Bond's car but then delivering his iconic line. To say it was anticlimactic and undeserved is an understatement. That was almost as much of a gut punch than Bond's death, because it really cemented Bond has died

    That's interesting. I felt it so belonged there. I was happy to hear it. I thought that was perfect for the ending. It seems many of us will have polar opposite reactions to much of this film.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Sorry you feel like that @CraigMooreOHMSS I can only say I came out of the film feeling the same

    There's a few things that really get under my skin with NTTD, the more I think about them.

    One in particular is...
    the film finishing with Madeline not only driving Bond's car but then delivering his iconic line. To say it was anticlimactic and undeserved is an understatement. That was almost as much of a gut punch than Bond's death, because it really cemented Bond has died

    That's interesting. I felt it so belonged there. I was happy to hear it. I thought that was perfect for the ending. It seems many of us will have polar opposite reactions to much of this film.

    Hey mate it's one of those things. One of the best things about being a Bond fan is we may not always agree but we're all on the same team.

    I love this forum because we can all have different opinions and we can debate it with out falling out with one another. Credit to the mods and everyone on here. Pleasure to be on here
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    The mods deserve a lot of respect, especially during the release of a new Bond film! And OMG most especially this one, the most divisive in the entire series of films.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    Did anyone else find the moment where Bond says 'Die Blofeld Die' really odd. I know they needed Bond to touch Blofeld in order to infect him, but it seemed very very forced and undid a lot of the great tension leading up to that moment.

    It’s straight from the YOLT novel! I liked that bit.
  • It's a marmite movie, like I said, potentially not good for long term returns. We'll see, but could lead to Amazon getting controlling interest long term if loses are heavy and EON has financial problems. Good or bad, thing is I've no bloody idea what will happen in the future for Bond or the world, if I did I'd be a much richer man, so can't really get emotional about it. It's a movie, did I like it, on reflection 1st hour yes, after that, bag of SH12, but it's only a movie, nobody really died, I've seen real death and it's not like anything you see in a movie, I don't believe in God because I've seen too much pain & death to believe that anyone is looking out for us. Young men die each day in the service of their country & it's a tragedy because most times it's for no reason other than the BS agenda of the power seeker who's in charge this year. Worlds going to hell in a handcart.
    Problem I have with NTTD is that the world really really needed a positive experiance after the last year & half, not some depressing drama queen wanna be, which this was. If we don't get some positivity back soon then we'll all end up slitting our wrists.

    Been drinking, totally depressed, going to bed, maybe tomorrow will be brighter.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    I was disappointed.
    So disappointed I went in again and watched it again and was still disappointed.
    Casino was the reintroduction of the blunt instrument, cold blooded weapon that is Bond but this last film should have left Madeleine behind. Bond isnt a family man, hes a loner, an assassin, a tool to get things done.
    Safins master plan didnt really have any substance and if Spectre is no more what is left?
    Bond is a survivor, the end credits should have shown him swandiving (no pun intended) off the cliffs as the missiles struck.
    He'll be back, but unless hes the deadly killer and womaniser we love, he wont be Bond.

    "A tool to get things done."

    I would argue that he he became a greater tool in NTTD, based on how his body had basically become used. The layers are thick and have to be peeled back.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    The mods deserve a lot of respect, especially during the release of a new Bond film! And OMG most especially this one, the most divisive in the entire series of films.

    Many thanks!
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