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Coronavirus Discussion

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  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Europe will recover like China.

    If Europe had copied what China did, then yes Europe will recover like China. But Europe has not done what China did, and so it’s reasonable to expect the outcome in Europe to be different.

  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Europe will recover like China.

    If Europe had copied what China did, then yes Europe will recover like China. But Europe has not done what China did, and so it’s reasonable to expect the outcome in Europe to be different.

    Italy has already exceeded China. Spain looks likely to be next.
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    edited March 2020 Posts: 631
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I do not regard 11,000 deaths out of seven billion people enough of a reason to lockdown many countries in the world

    You’ve misunderstood. Countries are not in lockdown because of the deaths of 11,000. Countries are in lockdown instead because countries do not want the death of millions. The reason why only 11,000 people are now dead, rather than a higher number, is a result of the lockdown, not because of it.

    I do not expect you to grasp this point, but others may benefit.

    ‘Millions’ is not an exaggeration. The British government idly floated the idea of ‘herd immunity’ last week. Herd immunity probably requires at least 50 million, out of the UK’s 65 million or so, to contract the virus, within the next few weeks. With a death rate of 1% that’s half a million dead people in the UK alone, over the next few weeks. That’s why lockdowns are coming. And that’s why “look at the recovery rate” is a complete red herring.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I do not regard 11,000 deaths out of seven billion people enough of a reason to lockdown many countries in the world

    You’ve misunderstood. Countries are not in lockdown because of the deaths of 11,000. Countries are in lockdown instead because countries do not want the death of millions. The reason why only 11,000 people are now dead, rather than a higher number, is a result of the lockdown, not because of it.

    I do not expect you to grasp this point, but others may benefit.

    ‘Millions’ is not an exaggeration. The British government idly floated the idea of ‘herd immunity’ last week. Herd immunity probably requires at least 50 million, out of the UK’s 65 million or so, to contract the virus, within the next few weeks. With a death rate of 1% that’s half a million dead people in the UK alone, over the next few weeks. That’s why lockdowns are coming. And that’s why “look at the recovery rate” is a complete red herring.

    You are wasting your time with this utter moron.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I do not regard 11,000 deaths out of seven billion people enough of a reason to lockdown many countries in the world

    You’ve misunderstood. Countries are not in lockdown because of the deaths of 11,000. Countries are in lockdown instead because countries do not want the death of millions. The reason why only 11,000 people are now dead, rather than a higher number, is a result of the lockdown, not because of it.

    I do not expect you to grasp this point, but others may benefit.

    ‘Millions’ is not an exaggeration. The British government idly floated the idea of ‘herd immunity’ last week. Herd immunity probably requires at least 50 million, out of the UK’s 65 million or so, to contract the virus, within the next few weeks. With a death rate of 1% that’s half a million dead people in the UK alone, over the next few weeks. That’s why lockdowns are coming. And that’s why “look at the recovery rate” is a complete red herring.

    I agree.
    Furthermore, it's also a question of how much one values a human life. The herd immunity theory looks like it doesn't, to be fair.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,217
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I do not regard 11,000 deaths out of seven billion people enough of a reason to lockdown many countries in the world

    You’ve misunderstood. Countries are not in lockdown because of the deaths of 11,000. Countries are in lockdown instead because countries do not want the death of millions. The reason why only 11,000 people are now dead, rather than a higher number, is a result of the lockdown, not because of it.

    I do not expect you to grasp this point, but others may benefit.

    ‘Millions’ is not an exaggeration. The British government idly floated the idea of ‘herd immunity’ last week. Herd immunity probably requires at least 50 million, out of the UK’s 65 million or so, to contract the virus, within the next few weeks. With a death rate of 1% that’s half a million dead people in the UK alone, over the next few weeks. That’s why lockdowns are coming. And that’s why “look at the recovery rate” is a complete red herring.

    I agree.
    Furthermore, it's also a question of how much one values a human life. The herd immunity theory looks like it doesn't, to be fair.

    Also agreed. 800 Italian deaths in one day is not something to be sniffed at. It's still early days for the UK and Ireland. It's likely the damage for us won't peak until the middle of next month.

    All we can do is hope.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    France has recorded 112 deaths today, joining Spain, Iran and Italy as the countries averaging over 100 deaths a day.
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    If, however, you are making a statement about how our LEADERS are dealing with the matter, then, @IGotABrudder, I very much agree with you.

    Yes you are right @DarthDimi, I was referring to our leaders. Sorry to everyone for not being clear.

  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I do not regard 11,000 deaths out of seven billion people enough of a reason to lockdown many countries in the world

    You’ve misunderstood. Countries are not in lockdown because of the deaths of 11,000. Countries are in lockdown instead because countries do not want the death of millions. The reason why only 11,000 people are now dead, rather than a higher number, is a result of the lockdown, not because of it.

    I do not expect you to grasp this point, but others may benefit.

    ‘Millions’ is not an exaggeration. The British government idly floated the idea of ‘herd immunity’ last week. Herd immunity probably requires at least 50 million, out of the UK’s 65 million or so, to contract the virus, within the next few weeks. With a death rate of 1% that’s half a million dead people in the UK alone, over the next few weeks. That’s why lockdowns are coming. And that’s why “look at the recovery rate” is a complete red herring.

    I agree.
    Furthermore, it's also a question of how much one values a human life. The herd immunity theory looks like it doesn't, to be fair.

    Also agreed. 800 Italian deaths in one day is not something to be sniffed at. It's still early days for the UK and Ireland. It's likely the damage for us won't peak until the middle of next month.

    All we can do is hope.

    But don't worry. @fanbond123 assures us this is all just a massive overreaction. 800 deaths in one day is nothing to him.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I wonder what is the biggest threat - the virus or ignorance?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Definitely ignorance.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    The problem with comparing recovery of UK with China and Italy is that people were far less prepared, because it was a new disease. Corona has only been in UK a few weeks and already there is basically shutdown. Another few months and the rate will decline. The mistake was letting it in the first place, but now we have more hospitals pledged, there is no need for people make a catastrophe out of things. It doesn't do to spread depression and fear in people. As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon. Just focus on safety and staying rational rather than panic.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2020 Posts: 15,718
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    The problem with comparing recovery of UK with China and Italy is that people were far less prepared, because it was a new disease. Corona has only been in UK a few weeks and already there is basically shutdown. Another few months and the rate will decline. The mistake was letting it in the first place, but now we have more hospitals pledged, there is no need for people make a catastrophe out of things. It doesn't do to spread depression and fear in people. As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon. Just focus on safety and staying rational rather than panic.

    Please stop spreading false information. The UK are not shutdown. People are still allowed to go to work, go to supermarkets and walk outside. All 3 of those things were strictly prohibited in China. The first case in the UK occured on January 31st, which is nearly 2 months ago.

    Your post is absolutely dangerous, I hope you know how oblivious you are to the current situation around the world, and how utterly full of lies your post is. You are either clueless or a troll, given how easily the information in your post can be disproven.

    It is the UK, the US and the Western world who are totally unprepared to this coronavirus. Which is downright criminal (and so is your post) when we've been following the virus' outbreak in China for months. This level of inaction is blatant incompetence at this point.

    'There is no need to make a catastrophe out of things' when Italy recorded more deaths in 2 weeks than China in 4 months?

    'As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon.' The absolutely mild guidelines compared to China? These same guidelines that aren't being followed at all by a big proportion of US and European citizens, if you bothered to open your eyes and your ears?

    I wonder why such country as France are having to hand out thousands of daily fines because people aren't following basic lockdown measures?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    What makes anyone think this amount of rage, and attacking other users, is in any way helpful?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That's what exponential growth means.
    As more and more countries are in virtual lockdown, it's possible to see a flattening of the curve in some countries next week.

    Gawd, let's hope so.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2020 Posts: 15,718
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    What makes anyone think this amount of rage, and attacking other users, is in any way helpful?

    You can focus on the rage, or on the lies and false information being posted on the internet. Personally, I prefer to focus on people spreading lies, which is much more dangerous than someone calling them out for it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,399
    It isn't really a discussion when one side is leapt upon for making any kind of argument whatsoever. Peoples mental health should also been considered as well as physical. Is it helpful to anyone to repeatedly post about the rates of death without mentioning anything about the numbers of people surviving, or what age you have to be to be considered at serious risk (yes, there at outliers too).

    This is certainly a tragedy, unlike we have seen but it helps to give that context, perhaps in relations to other diseases or causes of death. Other you just spread panic and fear, which does no good to anyone. Mental health I'd kinda important, and I for one think that deliberately leave out that information and just posting about how many have died is dismissive and disrespectful to the people actually fighting and winning the battle. In any catastrophic circumstance like this there is a message of dispair and a message of hope.

    Perhaps this is a thread only for a few members to flick figures back at one another, my mistake. If you guys are just going to respond by direct attacks towards anyone actually interested in discussing, you can have at it.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I think you should keep this thread floating around as the crisis we currently have is like nothing faced by so many people before, as long as they do it in this thread it can be controlled by the moderators.

    What is happening around the world is momentous and should be discussed among people, they need some outlet after all.

    James Bond is offering us nothing new for the moment but the times we live in are very interesting and need to be talked about.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Sad really, we need an outlet even if some simply do not realise what is happening out there or have a warped view upon this momentous crisis we are facing.
    He will be eating crow somewhere in the next weeks I expect.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2020 Posts: 15,718
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    It isn't really a discussion when one side is leapt upon for making any kind of argument whatsoever.

    If you want to have arguments, don't spread false information. Every talking point in previous post was quickly disproven. There is no discussion possible when someone is posting lies. If you didn't want your arguments shot down, you should have fact checked them before posting.
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    If you guys are just going to respond by direct attacks towards anyone actually interested in discussing, you can have at it.

    We are interested in discussing the coronavirus topic, but don't get shocked when people do not want to discuss false information like those found in your previous post. You do not get to use the victim card when you were the one coming here with inaccurate information and got called out for it.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I think the moderators should also check posts on fake news and remove it partly or complete, if the social media does so than so should we.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Isn't it time to re-awaken that old thread that interviews members of our community, I am sure that would be interesting reading these days.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I think the moderators should also check posts on fake news and remove it partly or complete, if the social media does so than so should we.

    Such posts can of course always be flagged.
    We'd grately appreciate it.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    The problem with comparing recovery of UK with China and Italy is that people were far less prepared, because it was a new disease. Corona has only been in UK a few weeks and already there is basically shutdown. Another few months and the rate will decline. The mistake was letting it in the first place, but now we have more hospitals pledged, there is no need for people make a catastrophe out of things. It doesn't do to spread depression and fear in people. As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon. Just focus on safety and staying rational rather than panic.

    Please stop spreading false information. The UK are not shutdown. People are still allowed to go to work, go to supermarkets and walk outside. All 3 of those things were strictly prohibited in China. The first case in the UK occured on January 31st, which is nearly 2 months ago.

    Your post is absolutely dangerous, I hope you know how oblivious you are to the current situation around the world, and how utterly full of lies your post is. You are either clueless or a troll, given how easily the information in your post can be disproven.

    It is the UK, the US and the Western world who are totally unprepared to this coronavirus. Which is downright criminal (and so is your post) when we've been following the virus' outbreak in China for months. This level of inaction is blatant incompetence at this point.

    'There is no need to make a catastrophe out of things' when Italy recorded more deaths in 2 weeks than China in 4 months?

    'As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon.' The absolutely mild guidelines compared to China? These same guidelines that aren't being followed at all by a big proportion of US and European citizens, if you bothered to open your eyes and your ears?

    I wonder why such country as France are having to hand out thousands of daily fines because people aren't following basic lockdown measures?

    Well said.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I think the moderators should also check posts on fake news and remove it partly or complete, if the social media does so than so should we.

    That would be more useful than shutting the thread down, for sure. I only saw passionate attacks in a couple of posts, depriving the rest of us from what has been a very useful thread would be unfair and ironically, an overreaction.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    The problem with comparing recovery of UK with China and Italy is that people were far less prepared, because it was a new disease. Corona has only been in UK a few weeks and already there is basically shutdown. Another few months and the rate will decline. The mistake was letting it in the first place, but now we have more hospitals pledged, there is no need for people make a catastrophe out of things. It doesn't do to spread depression and fear in people. As long as people follow the guidelines, as most are, things will resolve soon. Just focus on safety and staying rational rather than panic.

    Italy is on a very similar path to ours, looking back 14 days ago. Today we reached 233, and eerily Italy was on that very same number 14 days ago (the numbers on each day before then are very similar.)

    Italy also went into lockdown at the same time as we have now done, so the parallels are strikingly close and obvious to draw upon.

    The difference is, Italy have a higher elderly population, but they also have a much better healthcare system.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    A virus is circling the globe, best to hunker down and stay home, limit the number of people you see, so as not to spread it quickly.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Lombardy is officially in total lockdown. It’s basically forbidden every activity now. This has been decided by the governor of the region alongside the majors without the green light by the central Roman (unelected) government.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,247
    I never would have thought in a million years, that one day, the world would be like what I usually watch in Action Movies, Sci-fi Movies, Apocalyptic & Post-Apocalyptic movies....although we're all looking forward to it, to be short-lived In-The-Not-Too-Distant-Future...even if the situation is harrowing at the moment.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    I was getting a haircut this morning (today is the last day when this is permissible in New York) when the following announcement caught my attention: over half of the coronavirus cases identified in New York, thus far, have been in people between the ages of 18-49. That tends to run counter to the initial belief that older people were significantly more at risk.

    Of course, it could be that younger people are being tested more frequently, or that underlying medical conditions play a larger role than first thought.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-10000-coronavirus-cases-cuomo-urges-young-people-2020-3

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-millennials-young-adults.html
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