Coronavirus Discussion

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Not so. Countless doctors, scientists and researchers have been removed from Youtube, facebook and twitter and are denied the right to present their opinions and/or research in the mass media. It is called corruption. You are lied to on a daily basis.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,546
    They're just wrong, that's all. It's not corruption, it's helpful.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Thanks, @NickTwentyTwo. No need for me to additionally reply to the usual conspiracy nonsense.
  • edited February 2022 Posts: 1,314
    I wrote something but talking to conspiracy theorists has a ring of King Canute about it and really, life is too short.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    One thing about fascists: They like to stifle free speech and censor the truth. I don t care about fascists. You are not my boss.

    I'm not anybody's boss nor a fascist. It's just that I'm deeply devoted to the feeling that a government has no higher duty than to make sure there is no bodily harm, especially no threat of dying, to its citizens. Even the supposed "freedom" of those who think they don't have to contribute to this goal changes nothing about this. Also, I don't see there is any censorship so far in the Corona discussions and its diverse aspects. It's just that the large majority of (reasonable) people refuse to listen to or accept the arguments of the Corona deniers/non-vaxxers etc., who are still free to spread their nonsense without being taken into custody or otherwise sanctioned, and even at a daily basis. Tell me how this is "censorship". It isn't, since they are free to spout their opinion (aka. nonsense), but will have to meet the fact that the majority doesn't subscribe to it.

    Well said my friend.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    This thread has never been censored. We let everything pass! Unfortunately, accusations of "censorship" role easily off people's tongues when they are being disagreed with, confronted with their non-truths or advised to look for facts on other platforms than Twitter, Facebook or YouTube.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    People have to remember that YouTube, Google, etc. are not prime arbiters of all objective information available, as they might seem to be; they're for-profit corporations. They are under no obligation whatsoever to provide "all" information, they're only under the legal obligation to increase market value for their shareholders.
    If they choose not to show one thing or another, it isn't censorship, because YouTube, Google, etc. aren't the government. They're making a decision, ostensibly, to increase market value.

    To cry out "YouTube is censoring science! They're not showing me EVERYTHING AND EVERY SIDE OF THE STORY!" is akin to crying out "Wal-Mart doesn't have my best interests in mind!!"

    Of course they f***ing don't. There, I censored myself, don't be angry!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited February 2022 Posts: 13,767
    Those entities shepherd their political views by design, beyond pursuing market interests and profit. And they've been censoring scientific opinion and data definitely. What was censored 6 months or so ago can be revealed in current days as supported opinion or fact.

    And they are allowed to be wrong on these type actions.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2022 Posts: 24,157
    Some say that science is about questioning everything. To an extent, that's true. But some things inevitably leak into scientific consensus. That is essential, because otherwise, science can't make any progress.

    Then, still, things can always be questioned. Major paradigm shifts in science are about reinventing the way we look at nature at the most fundamental levels. But facts remain facts, no matter what the new models are. Details can be finetuned, classification systems reorganized, but the major backbone of science always survives such paradigm shifts, and grows longer and stronger. At some point, things we "assume" to be true turn into things we "know" to be true because we have no reliable data to prove otherwise. New layers of accepted knowledge allow future layers of knowledge to be built on them. And so the process of making scientific progress, the fruits of which we can all enjoy, happens. At some point, looking back to check if the foundations are still holding is philosophically interesting, but scientifically impractical.

    Take vaccines. They have been around for several generations now. Their merits have been proven, their risks thoroughly assessed, the technology behind them improved and their safety more than guaranteed. You can continue to question them, but at some point, we have to move on. Yet because something is directly injected into our body, fear is a natural response. "Hold on, mate, what are you doing?" The confirmation bias then pushes some people in the arms of those who present alternative readings of certain statistics, or of those who flat-out construct their own numbers and truths. And they have, more than ever before, the means to reach out, using all kinds of channels on the Internet.

    Some of those "sceptics" are doctors. So people say, "see? Even doctors are against vaccines!" Yes, some doctors are, but most aren't. When the numbers of vaccine deniars grow, people say, "see? Many agree with us!" Yes, many do, but most don't. When someone gets ill after (not necessarily from) being vaccinated, people say, "see? The vaccinated can get ill!" Yes, some do, most don't. In the end, nothing can lead us away from the essential conclusion, which is that vaccines work, that they are safe and that they do not lead to long-term issues for the vast majority of people.

    Yet, this is the essential breaking-point. "You refute my data, I refute yours." Some believe that it all boils down to a sort of intellectual freedom to select the data you like and hold those numbers as fact. The confirmation bias at play. But when asked why vaccines would deliberately be delivered to people if they were known to be cunning killing machines, all sorts of crazy, sinister world-domination stories are thought up. That is where I pull the plug. Because if the plan was to turn us all into drones, we don't need vaccines: Twitter, Facebook, YouTube have pretty much accomplished that already. If the plan was to exterminate a large portion of the world population, vaccines are a terrible way of doing that. With at most a handful of maybe-vaccine-related-deaths, it's like trying to kill someone with a little plastic water pistol. If the plan was to get our money, vaccines are, again, terrible tools for that. They hardly cost a thing. Besides, "big farma" get rich from more sick people, not less! Governments thrive on happy people, not angry people. And to engineer our minds, you need propaganda, not a handful of proteins and nucleic acids in our bloodstream. Most conspiracy theories are ludicrous, the stuff of '50s science fiction B flicks. A more down-to-Earth attitude is required. Reality check: not every government is trying to "get you", whatever that means.

    If a scientific triumph such as vaccines causes this much fuss for absolutely no reason, I wonder how we'll ever be able to tackle the climate change problem. Dealing with a pandemic like Corona, temporarily accepting fewer (first-world) freedoms for the good cause and taking a vaccine to help your fellow man stay safe, is nothing compared to what's coming.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I sadly fear the worst.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    This is all Rupert Murdoch's fault. He undermined the press in Australia, then the UK, then the US. All for profit.

    His networks and newspapers spew anti-vaccine rhetoric and cost gullible viewers their lives. Yet he was one of the first in the world to be vaccinated:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-murdoch/murdoch-receives-covid-19-vaccine-as-fox-news-host-casts-suspicion-on-campaign-idUSKBN28S2J7

    If there's a hell, Murdoch is surely going there.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,838
    Well said @DarthDimi.

    I’ve posted this quote here before, but I’ll repeat again:
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

    To update it: if anything, the voices of insanity are now amplified to a greater degree than ever before. Take a look at the “user comment” section on science articles/ videos posted to YouTube (or the Daily Mail). Like clockwork, in moments it will be flooded with moon landing deniers and flat Earthers. And if you attempt to calmly response to their nonsense (i.e., we know the Earth is round because….), you are accused of being part of some international “globalist conspiracy.” Worse, they post the same rubbish on article after article, seeming immune to any attempt at reason. And while – fortunately – these people are in the minority (so far) – they do shout the loudest and attract the most attention.

    We seem to live in a world where the very idea of “facts” is under assault, and someone’s ability to post a YouTube video is now being given equal weight to centuries of scientific research that was (and is) conducted by generations of scientists, medical professionals and engineers.

    This is not to say that we should never question things, but our questions should be based on (at-least) some measure of facts.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited February 2022 Posts: 13,767
    Natural immunity.

    jiminy-cricket-disney.gif
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    The Maud Adams maskless grocery store story is kind of hilarious/sad. But she should have said, "I'm a two-time Bond girl!" and while the clerk was trying to remember which two films, she could have grabbed her groceries and left.

    More surreal is that there is actually a Maud Adams face mask for purchase:

    https://www.redbubble.com/i/mask/Andrea-Anders-Maud-Adams-by-Studio-CFNW11/31871920.9G0D8
  • Posts: 5,989
    Three time Bond Girl. Let's not forget AVTAK.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    Gerard wrote: »
    Three time Bond Girl. Let's not forget AVTAK.
    Best thing about that film. 😉
  • Posts: 12,526
    I still take precautions purely because of my step daughters Long Covid diagnosis. It's no fun for her, bless her.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I still take precautions purely because of my step daughters Long Covid diagnosis. It's no fun for her, bless her.
    Poor kid. Long Covid is nasty. Any improvement, @RogueAgent?
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I still take precautions purely because of my step daughters Long Covid diagnosis. It's no fun for her, bless her.
    Poor kid. Long Covid is nasty. Any improvement, @RogueAgent?

    It's going to be a long journey for her DD. She has got a number of issues going on, the main biggest one is that her lungs have been compromised.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I still take precautions purely because of my step daughters Long Covid diagnosis. It's no fun for her, bless her.
    Poor kid. Long Covid is nasty. Any improvement, @RogueAgent?

    It's going to be a long journey for her DD. She has got a number of issues going on, the main biggest one is that her lungs have been compromised.

    She will be in my thoughts, @RogueAgent. People can heal from a lot, but it may take some time. I wish your stepdaughter the very best!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,045
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I still take precautions purely because of my step daughters Long Covid diagnosis. It's no fun for her, bless her.

    Hope your step daughter makes steady progress mate, positive thinking.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    May she heal from her ills soon. I think she is lucky to have you as her stepfather.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Thank you all, that's very kind of you all and much appreciated!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    How many masks do you wear Thunderfinger ?
    I don't wear any even atm.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How many masks do you wear Thunderfinger ?
    I don't wear any even atm.

    Me neither, just my face.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    How many masks do you wear Thunderfinger ?
    I don't wear any even atm.

    Me neither, just my face.

    A cousin of mine and his mum haven't even had any shots.

    I've had just the 2 so far ,no boosters yet. What about yourself ?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How many masks do you wear Thunderfinger ?
    I don't wear any even atm.

    Me neither, just my face.

    A cousin of mine and his mum haven't even had any shots.

    I've had just the 2 so far ,no boosters yet. What about yourself ?

    None, and I have stayed healthy the last couple of years. Most colleagues and their families had three shots, and many of those caught covid not just once, but twice. Reality is different from the lies.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    How many masks do you wear Thunderfinger ?
    I don't wear any even atm.

    Me neither, just my face.

    A cousin of mine and his mum haven't even had any shots.

    I've had just the 2 so far ,no boosters yet. What about yourself ?

    None, and I have stayed healthy the last couple of years. Most colleagues and their families had three shots, and many of those caught covid not just once, but twice. Reality is different from the lies.

    Do they even mention how many people who are vaccinated are dying every day ?
    Looks like they want people to have boosters annually ,forever ?

    Fauci ,biden ,pelosi etc in their 80's still "working" is wrong. They should all retire at 60 max.

    'Totally lost': Joe Biden has 'no idea what’s going on' during signing ceremony ???
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