Die Another Day - will it age gracefully?

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  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    no actor, while during their Bond tenure had as equally big of a hit as their Bond films.... i don't even think Connery did..

    Tim, better actor than Brosnan and Craig

    Craig, better actor than Brosnan.
  • Posts: 7,653
    actonsteve wrote:

    Really? Considering the buzz around Craig at the moment I would say the opposite is true. He's on the cover of every magazine, his non-Bond films are big hits and the general buzz is he is the best Bond since Connery. Skyfall will probably be a monster hit.

    There will always be a vocal minority who dont like him and pining for the good old Pierce Brosnan days...

    But Craig just gets bigger and bigger.

    Correction it is all about James Bond, once DC is no longer 007. He'll be treated like the older versions as former 007 actor..........

    Really looking forward to Bag of Bones with former 007 Pierce Brosnan based upon a book by Stephen King.

  • Posts: 7,653
    HASEROT wrote:
    thats again, a broad generalization based on your personal opinion - and maybe the opinion of 5 of your friends..... i'll believe that once you conduct a scientific poll of every person who goes to see these movies outside this website..

    Trust me on this, the next 007 will be a lighter version. The continuity of the franchise has shown that such is the wave as well.

    I have 5 friends????? Damn, now I have to call some folks I actually liked and tell it is off. Can I do it after Christmas, I do enjoy all those greeting cards I get with Christmas. :!!

    And any scientific poll these days gets ignored anyhow, if it is not what folks want to believe. ;)

    (By the way those two large cinema's I toldabout earlier could just be the fact that in my area they actually have taste in good movies. But that would be a lie since Twilight did very well here.;) )

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    SaintMark wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    thats again, a broad generalization based on your personal opinion - and maybe the opinion of 5 of your friends..... i'll believe that once you conduct a scientific poll of every person who goes to see these movies outside this website..

    Trust me on this, the next 007 will be a lighter version. The continuity of the franchise has shown that such is the wave as well.

    I have 5 friends????? Damn, now I have to call some folks I actually liked and tell it is off. Can I do it after Christmas, I do enjoy all those greeting cards I get with Christmas. :!!

    And any scientific poll these days gets ignored anyhow, if it is not what folks want to believe. ;)

    (By the way those two large cinema's I toldabout earlier could just be the fact that in my area they actually have taste in good movies. But that would be a lie since Twilight did very well here.;) )

    i never question the tone in which future films will be made.... but your assumption that you know what the mass public wants.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    HASEROT wrote:
    no actor, while during their Bond tenure had as equally big of a hit as their Bond films.... i don't even think Connery did..

    Well Brosnan is the only Bond to see his final outing being a box office hit, close to his first outing performance. Connery's DAF, Moore's AVTAK and Dalton's LTK didn't make such a feat.
  • Posts: 140
    Judging by the comments I think it already has.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    DAD will age well, I'm sure. Those who have only just begun exploring the Bonds, say kids at the age of 6 or 10, will one day grow an interest in seeing what came before. They will look upon things from a completely different perspective. They weren't around in 2002 to fully taste DAD when it was supposed to be the latest and hottest, the 'anniversary' Bond. They never lived the anticipation towards this film and the let-down it was as a result of that for so many. They'll simply plug in TND today, TWINE tomorrow and DAD the next day: five years of Bond in a single weekend. Some will say that DAD wasn't all that good. Others will say that out of these three TWINE was the odd one. And many if not most will hardly notice the differences until the day they've grown so hooked on Bond and have gotten so deep into the history of Bond that they've started building good retrospective abilities with which to formulate a better opinion of the film. Some will understand the heat DAD took from the fans and will in fact support that heat. But most, I think, will give it a pass and DAD will be but one out of a giant series of films with an overall superb quality.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,355
    HASEROT wrote:
    no actor, while during their Bond tenure had as equally big of a hit as their Bond films.... i don't even think Connery did..

    Well Brosnan is the only Bond to see his final outing being a box office hit, close to his first outing performance. Connery's DAF, Moore's AVTAK and Dalton's LTK didn't make such a feat.

    Diamonds Are Forever did very well.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Samuel001 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    no actor, while during their Bond tenure had as equally big of a hit as their Bond films.... i don't even think Connery did..

    Well Brosnan is the only Bond to see his final outing being a box office hit, close to his first outing performance. Connery's DAF, Moore's AVTAK and Dalton's LTK didn't make such a feat.

    Diamonds Are Forever did very well.

    But it did not beat any of Connery's previous outings. Brosnan is the only Bond to have his final outing almost beat all of his previous outings... even his top earning one. Now compare DAF with TB.

  • Posts: 297
    Connery had the advantage of being Bond at the height of the spy hype.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Kennon wrote:
    Connery had the advantage of being Bond at the height of the spy hype.

    One could reverse this and suggest that Connery boosted said spy hype. ;;)
  • Posts: 297
    True. But you might also argue the hype was bound to happen what with the times and the cold war. Then maybe Matt Helm or Spillane's Tiger Man could have become icons?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Samuel001 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    no actor, while during their Bond tenure had as equally big of a hit as their Bond films.... i don't even think Connery did..

    Well Brosnan is the only Bond to see his final outing being a box office hit, close to his first outing performance. Connery's DAF, Moore's AVTAK and Dalton's LTK didn't make such a feat.

    Diamonds Are Forever did very well.

    But it did not beat any of Connery's previous outings. Brosnan is the only Bond to have his final outing almost beat all of his previous outings... even his top earning one. Now compare DAF with TB.

    Are we talking inflation adjusted or not? Either way, Brosnan's last, Die Another Day, did beat all of his other films, but I'm sure you knew that already and yes, he's the only one to have done that. As for Diamonds Are Forever it's third out of the six and almost tied second, so a hit compared to all the other swan songs over the years.
  • I think DAD could have a fate similar to Moonraker.

    When I first saw DAD, I loved it.

    When I first saw Moonraker, I loved it.

    After seeing more Bond films, reading the novels, and learning to appreciate Bond as it was meant to be, I began to dislike each.

    Then, as time has gone on, I've been able to calm down what had turned into disdain, and while I do NOT love either film, I can objectively look at them and see their strengths amid the many weaknesses. I can appreciate the good qualities in both, despite their failures.

    I see the similarities in that if nothing else.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Here's the trailer from 2002.



    I love how they put some of the awful dialogue in the damn thing. Talk about smug.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Here's the trailer from 2002.



    I love how they put some of the awful dialogue in the damn thing. Talk about smug.

    Now I'm not a big fan of the second half DAD. But just watching this shows you how depressing the new films are. Where's the fun damn it?

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,718
    But just watching this shows you how depressing the new films are. Where's the fun damn it?

    Exactly ! Please EON give Craig his DAF or MR ! [-O<
  • Posts: 297
    But in my book there's no lack of fun and joy in CR. Craig has a great time on the Bahamas, enjoys the card game and winning the Aston. The poker game at the Casino Royale is also fun and almost a private contest between LeChiffre's and Bond's wits. And the days/weeks of Bond's recovery aboard that sailing boat together with Vesper didn't look like an unbearable fate to me either.

    QOS on the other hand had not that much fun to offer. But overall I think there is some fun in Craig's tenure.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 9,848
    I will say this I Agree with DaltonCraig to a point.. everything up until about halfway through the Iceland stuff (before Halle Berry talks about your momma) was brilliant dark and I could make a case as almost as gritty as Craig's tenure


    a relevant plot Bond acting on his own terms (I love when Bond goes rogue I'm a sucker for it Loved it LTK DAD and QOS sorry It just proves that Bond is a bad ass and will even go against M to stop evil) Brosnan being cold dark and more flemingesque then even Goldeneye... (shocking words from someone who loves everything Daltoncraig hates like Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) But once Halle Berry has her own action scene then gets captured the film goes down hill and fast. I have heard that the original script was much closer to Moonraker and the ending was completely down to earth but Lee Tamhorrible had other ideas and well what you see is what you get. In comparison Batman and Robin versus Die Another day (2 films that made the producers go back to square one) die another day wins cause I can't think of one positive for Batman and robin (and this is coming from a huge Bane and Mr Freeze fan) Die Another Day I can think of plenty of positives It's far from a horrible film Watch Pinocchio's Revenge then talk to me about bad films but I wouldn't put it as high up as DaltonCraig.

    Also does everything have to be a bash fest of Quantum of Solace I don't get the hate, Brilliant settings lightening fast pace Craig at his all time brilliant some great dialogue in fact the Opera scene is better then all of Brosnan's and i'd argue Moore's tenure it's just so dam perfect and Flemingesque I'm shocked it wasn't written by Fleming. Bond's being depressed about Vesper... its brilliant
  • There's so much twisting and turning from one Bond movie and experience to another and different actors that I never know what to reply too sometimes, the title says something about Die Another Day but I'm finding myself all over the shop with releases

    For what could be the last time, DAD is an overall Bond dive, only Toby Stephens, Bond teaser and occasionly Pike and Brosnan even give a decent showing, the sword fight too warrants a mention, as it's quite well done and exciting and not overly ridiculous, but for the most part the negatives heavily outweigh the good bits and the sum total is that it's one of the most lamest, frustrating and annoying Bond releases out there

    The one thing I liked about Royale was that despite some initial doubts, Craig has certain Fleming qualities, and if you take out some of the stupid nonsense sequences, particularly in the early scenes, Craig is for the most part a realistic interpretation of the original character, he let himself down sometimes, or was it the scriptwriters, with some nonsense moments but the overall impression I got at least, was it was for the most part an enjoyable ride and kept the interest, sometimes you just need to switch off the bits that don't add up and glaring inconsistencies and just take in the experience
  • Posts: 2,107
    I just noticed this while watching haphazardstuff's The Brosnan Age, that Brosnan, of all Bond, mainly used machine guns. My mind even wandered forwards, and even though Craig's Bond is sporting a machine gun in QoS poster, he, like other Bonds before him, mainly uses his sidearm through the movies.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    SharkBait wrote:
    I just noticed this while watching haphazardstuff's The Brosnan Age, that Brosnan, of all Bond, mainly used machine guns. My mind even wandered forwards, and even though Craig's Bond is sporting a machine gun in QoS poster, he, like other Bonds before him, mainly uses his sidearm through the movies.

    as Haphazard put it... Brosnan's tenure was about machine guns, and diving away from explosions lol.

  • Posts: 1,052
    All the Bond films have turned a decent profit over the years, the Connery era will always be the most succesful because the series was new and fresh and there was nothing else like it around at the time.

    Even the films that considered flops such as AVTAK and LTK still made decent sums of money.

    Brosnan's films did well and as was said earlier a 5th film with him would most likely have done good business but the introduction of Craig and the new style of film worked to increase box office for the time being. The fact that the series is still going shows that it still remains very popular!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    lalala2004 wrote:
    I can appreciate the good qualities in both, despite their failures.

    Great to hear from you, @lalala. :-) Welcome back. I missed you.

    And I fully agree with your post.
  • Hindsight is 20/20, but had they known that this would be the last film in timeline A, I really do feel like the perfect way to end it would have been the Bond/Moneypenny kiss...only for real.
  • Posts: 297
    That's the crux really: they never know it's the last one. Perhaps for the better this way.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    timeline A certainly did go out with a bang though... they pretty much threw in everything but the kitchen sink.
  • Posts: 11,189
    HASEROT wrote:
    timeline A certainly did go out with a band though... they pretty much threw in everything but the kitchen sink.

    Brosnan was quoted saying that exact phrase during the publicity for DAD. He wasn't wrong.

  • Posts: 11,425
    The best chance of DUD ageing gracefully is if it gets lost/burnt in the vaults somehow. Sadly not gonna happen.
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