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what if we have a 007 against supernatural?

quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
in Bond 26 & Beyond Posts: 61
I remember ive read ian fleming liked supernatural things besides spy things, so imagine 007 against something beyond, it will work???
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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    It's already been done. See Live and Let Die, both novel and film.
  • quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
    Posts: 61
    yes, i need to watch that movie(i still havent seen all)
  • SomethingThatAteHimSomethingThatAteHim
    Posts: 532
    I’ve always wanted a Bond film that dealt with the more horror tinged Fleming stuff, pushing Live and Let Die’s horror bits further. Not necessarily supernatural, but use Red Grant’s book backstory about killing on full moons for a new henchman, have Dr. No’s obstacle course with the giant squid, and the night time island infiltration and barracuda barrier from Live and Let Die. It could be pretty nerve-wracking stuff if done properly, and people couldn’t say it’s un-Bondian because it all comes straight from the books.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Yes, you'll find plenty of supernatural stuff in the film version especially. So, that base has been pretty well covered, even if it was way back in 1973.
  • quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
    Posts: 61
    wish they did something like that in the new movies to come, with a new actor maybe they can try new stuff. this era have some dark tone between skyfall and spectre, but never goes beyond atmospheric.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2021 Posts: 18,281
    Well, there's always the possibility that they'll return to it again at some point. It has been nearly 50 years since the Bond film series touched on the supernatural. I like how the supernatural element gives Live and Let Die a distinction from the other Bond films so I personally wouldn't want to see this type of thing overdone. Perhaps it'd be one for a future Bond continuation novel or comic instead where experimentation and "out there" plots are more the order of the day.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    A bit of spookiness is certainly fun. But left as mysterious and unexplained or actually go full on and see whatever it is that’s causing Bond trouble?
    It’s a good idea for a topic :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    We already got this with a Sean Connery film. It's called INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE.

    ;)
  • SomethingThatAteHimSomethingThatAteHim
    Posts: 532
    I want my Bond version of TEMPLE OF DOOM though! (Octopussy obviously didn’t satiate me)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    SomethingThatAteHim wrote: »
    I want my Bond version of TEMPLE OF DOOM though! (Octopussy obviously didn’t satiate me)

    I remember first watching A VIEW TO A KILL and wondering just how EON stumbled onto the set of TEMPLE OF DOOM's mine shaft, complete with water flooding.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    Religious sentiments and clear political stances are something the Bond films should stay clear from.

    What genuinely supernatural there is in LALD, apart from Baron Samedi reappearing in the end? That he survived those snakebites isn't completely implausible. And I've always seen his reappearance as a breaking of the fourth wall, a wink to the audience instead of something that actually happened within the story.

    Fleming's novels of course have musings of religion, afterlife, etc. but nothing clearly supernatural ever happens in them - those stone idols nodding in YOLT might just have been Bond's wishful thinking like he himself thought.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    SomethingThatAteHim wrote: »
    I want my Bond version of TEMPLE OF DOOM though! (Octopussy obviously didn’t satiate me)

    I remember first watching A VIEW TO A KILL and wondering just how EON stumbled onto the set of TEMPLE OF DOOM's mine shaft, complete with water flooding.

    I do remember having this sense as a kid that all movies had comedy foreign dining scenes and action set inside mines.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    When I first watched goldeneye as a child, I thought Trevelyan actually did come back from the dead, so I thought the supernatural was a part of Bond. :))
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    EinoRistoSiniaho wrote: »
    Religious sentiments and clear political stances are something the Bond films should stay clear from.

    What genuinely supernatural there is in LALD, apart from Baron Samedi reappearing in the end? That he survived those snakebites isn't completely implausible. And I've always seen his reappearance as a breaking of the fourth wall, a wink to the audience instead of something that actually happened within the story.

    Fleming's novels of course have musings of religion, afterlife, etc. but nothing clearly supernatural ever happens in them - those stone idols nodding in YOLT might just have been Bond's wishful thinking like he himself thought.

    I always thought YOLT was the most supernatural of the stories, not just because of the stone idols but more because of how Bond rediscovers Blofeld in the first place. On one level it’s just coincidence. But on another level it’s fate at work, a kind of destiny. Bond and Blofeld feel like small characters in a much bigger and more elemental struggle.

    I think the supernatural technically could work in a Bond film if they handled it properly.

    However I fully expect they would not handle it properly at all.

  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    The newspaper comics went in for the supernatural angle quite regularly from what I recall.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,553
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    EinoRistoSiniaho wrote: »
    Religious sentiments and clear political stances are something the Bond films should stay clear from.

    What genuinely supernatural there is in LALD, apart from Baron Samedi reappearing in the end? That he survived those snakebites isn't completely implausible. And I've always seen his reappearance as a breaking of the fourth wall, a wink to the audience instead of something that actually happened within the story.

    Fleming's novels of course have musings of religion, afterlife, etc. but nothing clearly supernatural ever happens in them - those stone idols nodding in YOLT might just have been Bond's wishful thinking like he himself thought.

    I always thought YOLT was the most supernatural of the stories, not just because of the stone idols but more because of how Bond rediscovers Blofeld in the first place. On one level it’s just coincidence. But on another level it’s fate at work, a kind of destiny. Bond and Blofeld feel like small characters in a much bigger and more elemental struggle.

    I think the supernatural technically could work in a Bond film if they handled it properly.

    However I fully expect they would not handle it properly at all.

    Due to the nature of their work, individually, they were bound to continually run into eachother, I feel, until one of them is destroyed. An unstoppable force (Blofeld) and an immoveable object (Bond); only one can exist.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    When I first watched goldeneye as a child, I thought Trevelyan actually did come back from the dead, so I thought the supernatural was a part of Bond. :))

    Ha! Well I guess they never did actually explain how he survived...

    It's funny, I'm not against the idea of something like this but I kind of struggle to think of anything along the lines of what I wouldn't mind Bond facing. I tend to think it would have to be a brief mystery not explained rather than full-on Raiders-style phantasms.
  • MonorailerMonorailer
    Posts: 36
    You might like a novel called The War in the Dark, a Cold War spy thriller set in the '60s that mixes a Fleming Bond flavour with the supernatural.
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    mtm wrote: »
    I tend to think it would have to be a brief mystery not explained rather than full-on Raiders-style phantasms.

    Yes this. I think this is why LALD works. It’s a mystery, for instance, how Solitaire knows about Bond from the cards, but it’s not explained, nor do they even spend any real time on it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I tend to think it would have to be a brief mystery not explained rather than full-on Raiders-style phantasms.

    Yes this. I think this is why LALD works. It’s a mystery, for instance, how Solitaire knows about Bond from the cards, but it’s not explained, nor do they even spend any real time on it.

    Yes indeed, and Kananga's belief that her power is lost when her virginity is taken does seem to be correct, doesn't it?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,553
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I tend to think it would have to be a brief mystery not explained rather than full-on Raiders-style phantasms.

    Yes this. I think this is why LALD works. It’s a mystery, for instance, how Solitaire knows about Bond from the cards, but it’s not explained, nor do they even spend any real time on it.

    I agree this was a fantastic implementation... the montage with her voice-over narration "he comes by sea... he brings death...", added a ton and didn't need to be explained.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    LALD was the first Bond film I saw three times in a cinema, and I still like it more than any other Moore movie except maybe Moonraker, which I avoided at first but now embraced as probably his best (if you decide to be silly, do it all the way).

    But I'm still unhappy about that voodoo, supernatural approach in LALD. Lots of things don't make sense and are only bearable as an attempt at satire. But that's not what I expect from a Bond film (I didn't even in 1974). Where "suspension of disbelief" works in almost every other Bond film, it has to be replaced by "grin and bear it" in this one.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    edited October 2021 Posts: 154
    I never took the voodoo in LALD as to be taken literally, more coincidence, or the sort of phoney tripe fortune tellers reel out. "He comes over water". Really? To an island nation? "He brings violence." It appears anyone in the criminal world knows who Bond is so that isnt a stretch. When she confirms to Tee-Hee he is armed... well... it didn't require the deductive powers of Miss Marple.

    It walked the line of giving it screen time, without asking the audience to believe in it just about right for me.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Simon wrote: »
    I never took the voodoo in LALD as to be taken literally, more coincidence, or the sort of phoney tripe fortune tellers reel out. "He comes over water". Really? To an island nation? "He brings violence." It appears anyone in the criminal world knows who Bond is so that isnt a stretch. When she confirms to Tee-Hee he is armed... well... it didn't require the deductive powers of Miss Marple.

    It walked the line of giving it screen time, without asking the audience to believe in it just about right for me.
    I can see your point, but there's a lot more to that. For one thing, how should they know he is coming at all? And then, what about the entire tarot card story? Cards that have "007" on the back? And a set consisting of numerous cards of the kind necessary to create the special effect? It may not be supernatural, but then it's definitely a major plot hole.

    Anyway, I accept this in LALD if only because it (unreasonably) has a special place in my Bond lover's heart.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 154
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I can see your point, but there's a lot more to that. For one thing, how should they know he is coming at all? And then, what about the entire tarot card story? Cards that have "007" on the back?

    The same answer to so many older Bond films - Plot Convenience! I always thought the cards with 007 on the back was more akin to a mistake/product placement than anything.

    As for the cards having information pertinent to Bond - it's the same trick that gets pulled when a real con-artist fortune teller has you sat down in front of them. It's a an ambiguous guess, just the same as people find meaning in horoscopes. Who knows, maybe off camera the cards also told Kananga he and Tee-Hee would be lovers so he just decided to listen to the bits he thought more believable.
  • quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
    Posts: 61
    Monorailer wrote: »
    You might like a novel called The War in the Dark, a Cold War spy thriller set in the '60s that mixes a Fleming Bond flavour with the supernatural.

    I will search it . is my kind of style of novels, and i have read alot of thrillers that have supernatural details at some point.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond up against rich and powerful devil worshippers with nefarious plans, with all the horrors that can entail. Keep some of it ambiguous, and you can get a really dark and exciting Bond film. There can still be humour and fun.
    4DAD597E00000578-5891955-Satanists_are_atheists_who_consider_themselves_as_being_the_most-a-8_1530110157753.jpg

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    If Bond goes up against a super natural villain or story, then I’d say the series has jumped the shark.
    Seriously it can’t be that hard to come up with a more believable spy thriller.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,590
    What if the villain goes up against
    zombie Bond

    ?
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    Supernatural elements should be introduced sparingly and with caution.

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