Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216

    Umm... no.

    John Woo > McQuarrie

    Not a chance. I love Woo dearly but M:I-2 is an awful, awful film and he should never have been given the gig.

    I wish more action flicks were as “awful” as M:I-2!


    Funnily, of all the flicks, it’s the only one of the series where Hunt is never a rogue or disavowed!

    Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I never took to it and find it sticks out like a sore thumb in the series' in all the wrong ways!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    For me that’s M:I-3, aka MARRIAGE: IMPOSSIBLE.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    For me that’s M:I-3, aka MARRIAGE: IMPOSSIBLE.

    :))
  • Posts: 1,970
    Finally saw Fallout last night. I liked it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    Sorry but M:I has gotten one over on bond the last 4 years. I love Bond , but Fallout raised the bar. Eon saw Fallout and knew they couldn’t move forward with Boyle’s action lite film. I’m convinced of this. Apparently Boyle’s film was heavily British based and took place mostly in London from what I’ve read

    It´s amazing that even so long after the film was released, this pre-release assumption that Fallout raises the bar action-wise still holds up in some people´s heads.
    I´m not even sure if Fallout even has more action than the previous films. For sure it has more scenes that rather drag. The action setpieces in M:I 4 and 5 still stand out as more original and spectacular. And better filmed. The bike chase sequence in Paris in Fallout loses a lot of impact by the way it´s filmed and edited.

    The car chase is fantastic. The helicopter chase, and indeed the whole climax, is tenser than any action sequence I’ve seen in years.
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 12,837
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    And what was skyfall and spectres plot again? Kill M and reunite with my brother Blofeld.

    Skyfall, I'll give you that one. Silva's plan didn't make much sense at all. But I think Spectre actually has one of the best villain schemes of the series, they just didn't execute it as well as they could have done.

    First of all, yeah, the brother angle was pointless and distracting. It made such little impact that it easily could have been taken out anyway so I don't get why it was necessary at all. I'd get rid of that.

    Also I think Blofeld's scheme should have had more consequence. As cool as it was seeing Bond effortlessly being Bond in the PTS, I think it should have been a bit more intense, with him stopping the bomb at the last second instead of blowing it up early. I also think that we should have seen shots of the other terrorist attacks instead of just hearing about them and it should have been a lot harder to stop Nine Eyes instead of Q just casually turning it off by hammering away at a keyboard.

    I also think Blofeld himself should have done more to talk about his plan when Bond was at his base. He could have talked about how people's paranoia about terrorism and the eagerness of groups like ISIS to claim responsibility made it easy. And he did have that little speech about information being power but he should have talked about what he'd actually do with that information.

    So yeah the execution was off. But I think the villain's plan in Spectre is actually the one of the best things about it. Carry out terrorist attacks to trick the government into giving him surveillance power that would make his criminal organisation unstoppable. Very clever and modern while still feeling high stakes. I know it sounds ridiculous because they already had four years to get it right but I think if it'd had a few more drafts then we'd easily be talking about that films story as one of the best.
    For me that’s M:I-3, aka MARRIAGE: IMPOSSIBLE.

    I like MI 3. Don't remember what it was actually about but I liked how much more intense and gritty it felt, and Hoffman is easily the only good villain MI has ever had. For me it'd go

    Ghost Protocol - It's easy to forget now because Marvel has led to every Hollywood blockbuster going for quippy fun lately but this came out back when everyone was copying Bourne/The Dark Knight, so it was actually such a breath of fresh air at the time because of how fun it was.

    MI 3 - Tense and exciting little action film with a great bad guy.

    Fallout - Bit overrated imo but a lot better than RN.

    MI - Always thought it was a bit dull, but has some really good bits.

    MI 2 - Crap.

    Rogue Nation - At least MI 2 was entertaining. A boring bloated attempt at recreating GP's success.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    This applies to almost all modern film franchises/series, including (and sometimes especially) Bond, so I guess you're going to be a very unhappy man regardless of what you watch.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited September 2019 Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    This applies to almost all modern film franchises/series, including (and sometimes especially) Bond, so I guess you're going to be a very unhappy man regardless of what you watch.

    What makes you say that?
    I am perfectly happy the way things are going with bond , mi is an whole other story. Most bond fans are unhappy and complaining a lot about bond so are they unhappy?
    And frankly it's hard to believe that bond copy exactly like other franchise. A lot of people here keep saying that QOS had a lot of influence from Bourne but it was just shaky cam which wasn't exactly a copy but more of a trend that was going around at that time in a lot films.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    This applies to almost all modern film franchises/series, including (and sometimes especially) Bond, so I guess you're going to be a very unhappy man regardless of what you watch.

    And frankly it's hard to believe that bond copy exactly like other franchise. A lot of people here keep saying that QOS had a lot of influence from Bourne but it was just shaky cam which wasn't exactly a copy but more of a trend that was going around at that time in a lot films.

    Whether it's hard to believe or not, Bond has, since the early 70s at least, taken inspiration from many other sources and prominent pop-culture films. It's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you view it as such. Reactive Bond films have often been amongst the best ones. It's one of the reasons the series has stayed alive for so long - smart producing.
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    This applies to almost all modern film franchises/series, including (and sometimes especially) Bond, so I guess you're going to be a very unhappy man regardless of what you watch.

    What makes you say that?
    I am perfectly happy the way things are going with bond , mi is an whole other story. Most bond fans are unhappy and complaining a lot about bond so are they unhappy?

    Is that a question, or a question AND an answer? Yes, if they are unhappy and complaining then I would say they are unhappy.

    P.s. I am also reasonably happy with Bond at the moment (excited for NTTD as well as whoever becomes Bond next), but I wouldn't deny that there are elements of the Craig era that are indebted to both other major franchises (be it through tone or mood, directing style and/or certain technical approaches) and the 50 year history of Bond itself. But it's not where the inspiration comes from that counts, it's what you do with it. Both CR and SF did something smart with it, while the other two have massive flaws that have been well documented here since their release.

    M:I similarly has done some pretty awesome things with its inspiration (also some not so good ones, in fairness) across the six films, and I personally find a lot of the Bond comparisons a tad superficial. They are very different beasts, and people are dead right when they say it'll be over when Cruise is done. Hunt is more Buster Keaton than James Bond, imo, and while that's not especially deep or meaningful, it's bloody entertaining and that's what matters ultimately.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    @CraigMooreOHMSS While I don't completely agree with that but there is a difference between inspiration and copying someone. A lot of bond fans aren't seem happy which is why they felt the need to compare bond with mi every now and then. Although I enjoyed rogue nation out of any mi film above I hardly find any mi rewatchabale after the first viewing sure it's a great entertainment but highly forgettable as well (something that matters).
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    @CraigMooreOHMSS While I don't completely agree with that but there is a difference between inspiration and copying someone. A lot of bond fans aren't seem happy which is why they felt the need to compare bond with mi every now and then. Although I enjoyed rogue nation out of any mi film above I hardly find any mi rewatchabale after the first viewing sure it's a great entertainment but highly forgettable as well (something that matters).

    Well, I can't argue with that. If it isn't for you, it isn't for you! I, personally, enjoy rewatching them all bar the second one.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2019 Posts: 16,369
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Tension has been one of bonds weaker points
  • @CraigMooreOHMSS While I don't completely agree with that but there is a difference between inspiration and copying someone. A lot of bond fans aren't seem happy which is why they felt the need to compare bond with mi every now and then. Although I enjoyed rogue nation out of any mi film above I hardly find any mi rewatchabale after the first viewing sure it's a great entertainment but highly forgettable as well (something that matters).
    I think it's the fact that M:I has been raising the bar in terms of action, while Bond hasn't really served a very impressive stunt since the Parkour Chase in CR, probably?

    I mean you definitely wouldn't see that kind of balls-to-the-wall adrenaline in either Mendes films. SF's strenght was in the character exploration / dynamics and unimpeachable cinematography rather than the action, I feel? The PTS was the biggest action sequence in the film.

    Of course I find Bond superior but I can see why some fans are a little dissappointed in this regard.

    I have high hopes for NTTD though, as Fukunaga seems more action savvy than Mendes, and the feeling I'm getting from the filming footage is a return to high energy action rather than the lackluster efforts from SP.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    It is funny to look st Skyfall and think of it as an action movie. Between the PTS and the house climax you get, what? Two fist fights, a foot chase and a brief static gunfight, and that’s about it.
    I rather like it for being quite stripped back, but it’s funny to compare it to MI which really is full of big action and tension.
  • Tuck91 wrote: »
    And what was skyfall and spectres plot again? Kill M and reunite with my brother Blofeld.
    I think Skyfall hit on a number of themes that a lot of these type of films don't have. Maybe with the exception of the first film, MI has never had any compelling storylines, and calling out Spectre for it's lazy storytelling I believe is unfair.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.
    @CraigMooreOHMSS While I don't completely agree with that but there is a difference between inspiration and copying someone. A lot of bond fans aren't seem happy which is why they felt the need to compare bond with mi every now and then. Although I enjoyed rogue nation out of any mi film above I hardly find any mi rewatchabale after the first viewing sure it's a great entertainment but highly forgettable as well (something that matters).
    I think it's the fact that M:I has been raising the bar in terms of action, while Bond hasn't really served a very impressive stunt since the Parkour Chase in CR, probably?

    I mean you definitely wouldn't see that kind of balls-to-the-wall adrenaline in either Mendes films. SF's strenght was in the character exploration / dynamics and unimpeachable cinematography rather than the action, I feel? The PTS was the biggest action sequence in the film.

    Of course I find Bond superior but I can see why some fans are a little dissappointed in this regard.

    I have high hopes for NTTD though, as Fukunaga seems more action savvy than Mendes, and the feeling I'm getting from the filming footage is a return to high energy action rather than the lackluster efforts from SP.

    CR & QOS both has terrific action sequences, Car chase/Plane chase/Foot chase the only issue was editing . In SF they took a more traditional approach and bond had to look weak after the PTS which suits the theme of the film and even though SP lacked great action sequence the chopper roll in the beginning was quite spectacular. People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.
  • Posts: 4,044
    MI Fallout has the plot of the baddie having 2 bombs and threatening the world, which is on the face of it Thunderball. But I wouldn’t say I sat there thinking it was some sort of remake or pastiche. It’s fair enough to reuse certain aspects of the genre.

    I think MI is enjoyable, though I miss the spying aspect of MI1 or the TV series. The emphasis on all out action is fine, but I don’t want Bond slavishly copying that. A mix of action, drama, spying and style please.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    Bond isn't Bourne, M:I, Fast & Furious or Kingsman. M:I isn't Fast & Furious, Bourne, Bond or Kingsman. Fast & Furious isn't Bond, Bourne, M:I or Kingsman. Kingsman isn't Bond, M:I, Fast & Furious or Bourne. Bourne isn't Bond, M:I, Fast & Furious or Kingsman.

    I wish we could finally put that debate aside by realizing that while each franchise can copy certain elements of the other franchises, they all cohabit the action genre & are all doing their own thing. I don't want M:I to let go of the team angle and have Tom Cruise as the only protagonist, I don't want F&F to remove all car chases and focus on fist fights, I don't want Bond to not be the center of attention of his films, etc.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Bond isn't Bourne, M:I, Fast & Furious or Kingsman. M:I isn't Fast & Furious, Bourne, Bond or Kingsman. Fast & Furious isn't Bond, Bourne, M:I or Kingsman. Kingsman isn't Bond, M:I, Fast & Furious or Bourne. Bourne isn't Bond, M:I, Fast & Furious or Kingsman.

    I wish we could finally put that debate aside by realizing that while each franchise can copy certain elements of the other franchises, they all cohabit the action genre & are all doing their own thing. I don't want M:I to let go of the team angle and have Tom Cruise as the only protagonist, I don't want F&F to remove all car chases and focus on fist fights, I don't want Bond to not be the center of attention of his films, etc.

    +1 I agree
  • Posts: 5,767
    Was that Cavil's character? He didn't leave much of an impression. Admittedly, it's the only film in the series I didn't bother getting on blu-ray so I haven't even revisited it yet.
    IMNVHO Cavill was badly miscast. There is a scene where Alec Baldwin tells Ethan Hunt to just look at Walker and see that he´s a trained killer. That scene gives me the strong impression that they had a completely different guy in mind when writing the character. Someone more along the lines of the various Bourne antagonists comes to mind. That would have turned the whole film around very much.

  • Posts: 9,846
    I believe she will be the villain the only reason I say this is wasn’t Henry Cavil cast first for fallout beyond the regulars
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

    Aww nice way of saying " one stupid scene is better than the other. Talking about tension which was highly predictable trying to stop the bomb (GP plot repeated)No matter the stakes there are better ways to come up with better sequence then what they have come up with. Remember AVTAK opening where bond use a flare or something like that to stop a chopper, in SP ending bond shoot at chopper, Ethan was pretty close than bond was in both movies .
    RN had a lot of common coincidence of copying not just the opera sequence I have posted it multiple times and Frankly I am tired of saying it again to people who wants to keep there eyes close, deny all you want by saying they are weak arguments but these aren't coincidence . Just like Hitchcock films, mi owes a lot to bond films .
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

    Aww nice way of saying " one stupid scene is better than the other. Talking about tension which was highly predictable trying to stop the bomb (GP plot repeated)No matter the stakes there are better ways to come up with better sequence then what they have come up with. Remember AVTAK opening where bond use a flare or something like that to stop a chopper, in SP ending bond shoot at chopper, Ethan was pretty close than bond was in both movies .
    RN had a lot of common coincidence of copying not just the opera sequence I have posted it multiple times and Frankly I am tired of saying it again to people who wants to keep there eyes close, deny all you want by saying they are weak arguments but these aren't coincidence . Just like Hitchcock films, mi owes a lot to bond films .

    If you think stakes aren't important in how good an action scene is or isn't, I really don't know what to tell you.

    The rest of your post is straw-clutching to the extreme. I mean that as nicely as possible. Sorry, dude!
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

    Aww nice way of saying " one stupid scene is better than the other. Talking about tension which was highly predictable trying to stop the bomb (GP plot repeated)No matter the stakes there are better ways to come up with better sequence then what they have come up with. Remember AVTAK opening where bond use a flare or something like that to stop a chopper, in SP ending bond shoot at chopper, Ethan was pretty close than bond was in both movies .
    RN had a lot of common coincidence of copying not just the opera sequence I have posted it multiple times and Frankly I am tired of saying it again to people who wants to keep there eyes close, deny all you want by saying they are weak arguments but these aren't coincidence . Just like Hitchcock films, mi owes a lot to bond films .

    If you think stakes aren't important in how good an action scene is or isn't, I really don't know what to tell you.

    The rest of your post is straw-clutching to the extreme. I mean that as nicely as possible. Sorry, dude!

    Stakes do matter but I wouldn't go as far as calling a stupid scene - best action film in years sure it was better than SP.

    Thanks for being so nice but I always feel the same about your denial in those posts . ;)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

    Aww nice way of saying " one stupid scene is better than the other. Talking about tension which was highly predictable trying to stop the bomb (GP plot repeated)No matter the stakes there are better ways to come up with better sequence then what they have come up with. Remember AVTAK opening where bond use a flare or something like that to stop a chopper, in SP ending bond shoot at chopper, Ethan was pretty close than bond was in both movies .
    RN had a lot of common coincidence of copying not just the opera sequence I have posted it multiple times and Frankly I am tired of saying it again to people who wants to keep there eyes close, deny all you want by saying they are weak arguments but these aren't coincidence . Just like Hitchcock films, mi owes a lot to bond films .

    If you think stakes aren't important in how good an action scene is or isn't, I really don't know what to tell you.

    The rest of your post is straw-clutching to the extreme. I mean that as nicely as possible. Sorry, dude!

    Stakes do matter but I wouldn't go as far as calling a stupid scene - best action film in years sure it was better than SP.

    Thanks for being so nice but I always feel the same about your denial in those posts . ;)

    Lets shake hands and leave it there, so. :))
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.

    If the new Bond has a set piece even half as good as the Opera sequence from RN I’ll be happy. Knowing McQ is back for more MI makes me happy enough on its own.

    If the new mission impossible or any mission impossible do anything original or at least not try to copy exact the same thing from bond or any other franchise i will be the first one to praise it.

    Which Bond did they steal the Opera sequence from then? When has Bond had to decide between two targets to shoot with one bullet?
    Since McQ came onboard they've been brilliantly, and cleverly, constructed blockbusters with, as I mentioned, set pieces that actually know to raise tension; something Bond has sadly mostly forgotten in recent years. Skyfall was a step in the right direction but it's not where the MI films are now, even if it does add quite a dash more style than they have.

    QOS oper sequence and about that shooting scene, TLD had a similar scene where bond had to shoot the Pushkin to save him just like Ethan had to shoot that chancellor to save him. There are lot of scenes in every single film and it's not coincidence.

    Awh man, these are very, very weak comparisons. The opera sequences in both QOS and RN owe more to Hitchcock than they do to each other. Come on! :)
    People complain about SP action sequences so let me just try and say it again:

    SP: bond try to run over the plane to henchmen and the woman he was trying to save in Austria .
    Fallout: Ethan try smash both helicopters to get the detonators.
    Now tell me again how exactly one makes sense (Fallout) in people's mind and other (SP) don't. I find both of them highly stupid.

    Pretty easily. The answer relies on context and more specifically, STAKES.

    Neither are very smart plans, but in FALLOUT Hunt is left without any choice but to risk the chopper chase (against an equal vehicle) on account of the imminent detonation of the nuclear bomb, which is the villain's endgame. There's no way of catching the helicopter, and there's a distinct mention of how crazy it is during the sequence which helps bring the tension up.

    The same scenario is not present in SPECTRE, where the stakes are considerably lower. It's "just" a female in the back of a car who, at that point in the story, may or may not be useful. Using a plane to ram the convey off the road seems like overkill, and puts the person he's trying to save (as well as Bond himself) at needlessly bigger risk. Bond on skiis would have been far more interesting (and made more sense) in that scenario, for example - but instead of all the vehicles surely present at the clinic to pursue SUVs, he goes for a plane?

    Conceptually, both scenes are nuts for sure, and both characters end up availing of their fair share of luck to come out on top. However, the stakes present (as well as superior editing, scoring and shot choices) during the FALLOUT chopper sequence makes it work far better, imo.

    Aww nice way of saying " one stupid scene is better than the other. Talking about tension which was highly predictable trying to stop the bomb (GP plot repeated)No matter the stakes there are better ways to come up with better sequence then what they have come up with. Remember AVTAK opening where bond use a flare or something like that to stop a chopper, in SP ending bond shoot at chopper, Ethan was pretty close than bond was in both movies .
    RN had a lot of common coincidence of copying not just the opera sequence I have posted it multiple times and Frankly I am tired of saying it again to people who wants to keep there eyes close, deny all you want by saying they are weak arguments but these aren't coincidence . Just like Hitchcock films, mi owes a lot to bond films .

    If you think stakes aren't important in how good an action scene is or isn't, I really don't know what to tell you.

    The rest of your post is straw-clutching to the extreme. I mean that as nicely as possible. Sorry, dude!

    Stakes do matter but I wouldn't go as far as calling a stupid scene - best action film in years sure it was better than SP.

    Thanks for being so nice but I always feel the same about your denial in those posts . ;)

    Lets shake hands and leave it there, so. :))

    Sure, in a civil manner (:|
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