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Has WWIII in fact started?

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
in General Discussion Posts: 17,804
What do you think?
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/russia-ukraine-civilian-death-toll-world-war-biden-20220303.html
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Comments

  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    It's certainly possible. The main question seems to be: how crazy is Putin, anyway? NATO nations are trying their best not to bring the nuclear option to the table... and the Russian army doesn't seem to be really invested in this fight... so it's just a question of, "Will Putin realize he's bitten off more than he can chew, and bring his napkin discretely to his mouth -- or is he just going to double down on his unsupportable position and force the hands of everyone else involved?"
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    It seems to me that he's fully committed, and that he'd sooner see Earth die in a radioactive cloud than back down. Question for me is, how far will his military let him go with this. His being 'sent to his room without supper' by Russia's true owners would not surprise me.... or perhaps I'm being too hopeful-?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Okay, Russian oligarchs please take note. There are steps you can take.... Vlad is off the chain now.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/putin-says-western-sanctions-are-akin-to-declaration-of-war/47405622
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I’m not sure about WWIII at the moment; I think we will take a step closer if other countries, say China, look at this situation and decide: now is as good a time as any to attack Taiwan.

    Then there will be even more chaos.

    However…. Nuclear war/WWIII? Putin is a mass murderer who has untold amounts of money stashed away, and if this man loves anything, it’s $$$; if he pushes that button, he knows no one will be safe (including his daughters) when the retaliation hits his shores. The nuclear option is suicide (so unless Putin has a secret health issue we don’t know about, I can’t see this as a viable option; at least I pray it’s not viable).
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,566
    Yeah, Vlad the mad says the occupation "is going to plan." The 40 mile long convoy breakdown is just the way he wanted things to be. You can't believe a word that he says. NATO isn't going to impose a no-fly zone because they realize that probably WOULD be a step too far. But as far as Russia's ruling kleptocratic class is concerned, the sanctions ARE hitting them right where it hurts... so maybe a permanent time-out is in the cards for Putin after all. We will see...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    peter wrote: »
    if he pushes that button, he knows no one will be safe (including his daughters)
    His mental state seems to be deteriorating to me. What if he's feeling that a life without an all powerful Russia is no kind of life at all, and they'd be better off dead with him?
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    peter wrote: »
    I’m not sure about WWIII at the moment; I think we will take a step closer if other countries, say China, look at this situation and decide: now is as good a time as any to attack Taiwan.

    Without a doubt, China is watching to see how it all plays out. So far, I don't think they're liking what they see...
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,566
    chrisisall wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    if he pushes that button, he knows no one will be safe (including his daughters)
    His mental state seems to be deteriorating to me.

    This is the wild card in the game. Some world leaders who have known him for a while are saying that a certain level of mental acuity has been fading recently, probably due to advancing age.

    And now, in response to absolutely no demand from anyone anywhere, we present the Return of BSE's Jukebox:


  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Oh boy @chrisisall … not something I’d like to contemplate. Hopefully his megalomania has a healthy dose of self preservation. Fingers crossed.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »

    And now, to absolutely no demand from anyone anywhere, we present the Return of BSE's Jukebox:
    Hey- it's that dude from Dune!

    Seriously though, we need to at least give Ukraine mass quantities of arms to help them out... I mean like more than we have been....
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    I've lived (still) the major part of my life only something like less than fifty miles from what was the Iron Curtain. I had to do 15 months of compulsory army service in the seventies, actually being involved in fire control for M-109 howitzers designed to shoot American nuclear shells should the Soviets invade Germany. Even then, it felt much more surreal and unlikely than now, since whatever one thought of the Soviet rulers, they seemed to be mostly sane persons who wouldn't risk "Mutual Assured Destruction". Can we be so sure now? I'm not convinced that Putin hasn't blown a fuse after twenty years in power, though I think he still has the edge in sanity and especially intelligence compared to, say,....uhm..., Trump. But will we really know before there's a mushroom cloud somewhere?
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited March 2022 Posts: 693
    If China takes Taiwan it might escalate into something global, but realistically, Russia will probably take all of Ukraine and incorporate it into Russia, which would be the end of it.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    slide_99 wrote: »
    If China takes Taiwan it might escalate into something global, but odds are that Russia will eventually take all of Ukraine and incorporate it into Russia. From Putin's perspective he can't leave a NATO staging area like Ukraine on his border.
    And from the NATO and EU perspectives it's no other country's business if a certain nation (Ukraine) decides to join NATO and/or EU, especially if its (the nation's) history has been dominated by Russian or Soviet occupation which they have always been dying to get rid of. There is no "NATO staging area" in Ukraine, or the NATO nations would already have deployed their troops against Russia. But they don't since Ukraine is not a member. I hope the war criminal and mass murderer Putin realizes the difference, because if he sends his troops into any of the Baltic republics, Poland, Romania or Bulgaria, the entire thing will blow up. Permanently. There will be no Bond 26, just to get this on-topic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Send Bond & Wai Lin into Russia asap!
  • cooperman2cooperman2 Uk
    Posts: 380
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    I’m wavering between being pessimistic and optimistic. At present the latter

    His rhetoric has changed in the last few days saying that neighbours shouldn’t impose more sanctions and he means no harm. I think he has grossly underestimated the international reaction and unity. Yak of sanctions being akin to war sounds like a desperate attempt to pressurise what is a global solidarity against what he has done. If anything it tells me that they are hurting abs will continue to way more than he ever anticipated.

    The Russian stock market hasn’t open yet as well

    I also would like to think China would now see that the economic repercussions of invading Taiwan would be catastrophic for their aspirations.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2022 Posts: 17,804
    Matt007 wrote: »
    I’m wavering between being pessimistic and optimistic. At present the latter

    His rhetoric has changed in the last few days saying that neighbours shouldn’t impose more sanctions and he means no harm. I think he has grossly underestimated the international reaction and unity. Yak of sanctions being akin to war sounds like a desperate attempt to pressurise what is a global solidarity against what he has done. If anything it tells me that they are hurting abs will continue to way more than he ever anticipated.

    The Russian stock market hasn’t open yet as well

    I also would like to think China would now see that the economic repercussions of invading Taiwan would be catastrophic for their aspirations.

    Agreed.
    The anti-Ukraine thing was in the works since before Trump was a POTUS, and Trump played well with Putin. Remember if you will the misdirection of the election interference. Ukraine was blamed. Always blame the victim if you wish to gain the support of the ignorant, heavily partisan, or hurting masses. That playbook used to work better before instant communication. Which is why Russia has cut off its people from the internet & criminalized dissent regarding the 'liberation of Ukraine from Nazi control'.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Your outlook here sir is dated IMHO. Weakness invites aggression in the the law of the jungle. If you believe us to be merely smarter animals rooted in savagery then you are of course correct. If like me you believe we are evolving beyond subjugation & predatory behaviour to survive then you are incorrect.
    My early childhood was violent. My early school bullying was tough. At 13 I learned martial arts thanks to a movie that starred Bruce Lee. Still, my geek Star Trek fan demeanour invited aggression. I became the geek that would 'kick you until you decided it wasn't worth the fight'. Basically, I repelled the assholes without having to hurt them severely.
    And here I am today, believing that you have to be strong, but that strength comes from reality, not projection. A 'presence attack' works in D&D; in real life it only works for a short while.
    Putin is doing his nuclear 'presence attack' with his nukes-on-alert thing. He's a child threatening a tantrum if he can't get what he wants. Like Trump on January 6.
    Capitol police saved us that day. Perhaps cooler heads in Russia will save us all as well.
    We shall see.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,818
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Acknowledged.

    We're living in the absurdity following "The 80s called--they want their foreign policy back" dismissals. And of course those same "80s" dangers came back.

    History repeating. Bankrupt the enemy and shut him down through strength, a very simple concept. Stop feeding the enemy through the exact channels they've committed to.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Not many here have addressed the actual original question.
    IMHO this is the beginning of WWIII as a hot war.
    Hopefully not a nuclear-ly hot war....
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited March 2022 Posts: 13,818
    At present, seems like the US and NATO players will not stop Russian actions. But events stop short of WWIII in the short term.

    Not good. On that first part.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Your outlook here sir is dated IMHO. Weakness invites aggression in the the law of the jungle. If you believe us to be merely smarter animals rooted in savagery then you are of course correct. If like me you believe we are evolving beyond subjugation & predatory behaviour to survive then you are incorrect.
    My early childhood was violent. My early school bullying was tough. At 13 I learned martial arts thanks to a movie that starred Bruce Lee. Still, my geek Star Trek fan demeanour invited aggression. I became the geek that would 'kick you until you decided it wasn't worth the fight'. Basically, I repelled the assholes without having to hurt them severely.
    And here I am today, believing that you have to be strong, but that strength comes from reality, not projection. A 'presence attack' works in D&D; in real life it only works for a short while.
    Putin is doing his nuclear 'presence attack' with his nukes-on-alert thing. He's a child threatening a tantrum if he can't get what he wants. Like Trump on January 6.
    Capitol police saved us that day. Perhaps cooler heads in Russia will save us all as well.
    We shall see.

    Ah, yes we do see the world completely differently.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Your outlook here sir is dated IMHO. Weakness invites aggression in the the law of the jungle. If you believe us to be merely smarter animals rooted in savagery then you are of course correct. If like me you believe we are evolving beyond subjugation & predatory behaviour to survive then you are incorrect.
    My early childhood was violent. My early school bullying was tough. At 13 I learned martial arts thanks to a movie that starred Bruce Lee. Still, my geek Star Trek fan demeanour invited aggression. I became the geek that would 'kick you until you decided it wasn't worth the fight'. Basically, I repelled the assholes without having to hurt them severely.
    And here I am today, believing that you have to be strong, but that strength comes from reality, not projection. A 'presence attack' works in D&D; in real life it only works for a short while.
    Putin is doing his nuclear 'presence attack' with his nukes-on-alert thing. He's a child threatening a tantrum if he can't get what he wants. Like Trump on January 6.
    Capitol police saved us that day. Perhaps cooler heads in Russia will save us all as well.
    We shall see.

    Ah, yes we do see the world completely differently.


    And, can you elabourate on that past a simple acknowledgement of our different views? I have no idea how your ideas on this work...
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    I think it may be better to close this thread. It’s going to get nasty. We all know that James Bond will be looking from the incidents for future influence, I imagine.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,632
    Here's an idea, and not placed here merely to reconcile differences stated above - sometimes the larger society may have evolved, become more sophisticated, but that may not describe all the players on the world stage. Putin has been around quite a while, and worked in the KGB a long while. When it comes to using the Internet as a propaganda machine, he may be quite up-to-date. When it comes to brute force - as opposed to the Chinese method of strangleholds put in place by agreements to bring something like water or power to a place which needs it - Putin may still be operating from a stance from which others - do-gooders, people doing bad acts, whomever - have moved on. By the way - while I think the utility-comes-with-a-price plot driver in QOS was already in place in the real world by the time the film came out, it most certainly is in place now.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think it may be better to close this thread. It’s going to get nasty. We all know that James Bond will be looking from the incidents for future influence, I imagine.
    You believe we can't discuss this rationally? Then you accept that we are lost to nuclear destruction? If we cannot coexist on a simple website, how can we as a planet?
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think it may be better to close this thread. It’s going to get nasty. We all know that James Bond will be looking from the incidents for future influence, I imagine.
    You believe we can't discuss this rationally? Then you accept that we are lost to nuclear destruction? If we cannot coexist on a simple website, how can we as a planet?

    I’m sorry, I was just making a suggestion. Settle down, I just made a comment. I meant no harm. We all have our opinions, let’s be respectful of each other’s ideas and thoughts. This is a entertainment site, technically.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Your outlook here sir is dated IMHO. Weakness invites aggression in the the law of the jungle. If you believe us to be merely smarter animals rooted in savagery then you are of course correct. If like me you believe we are evolving beyond subjugation & predatory behaviour to survive then you are incorrect.
    My early childhood was violent. My early school bullying was tough. At 13 I learned martial arts thanks to a movie that starred Bruce Lee. Still, my geek Star Trek fan demeanour invited aggression. I became the geek that would 'kick you until you decided it wasn't worth the fight'. Basically, I repelled the assholes without having to hurt them severely.
    And here I am today, believing that you have to be strong, but that strength comes from reality, not projection. A 'presence attack' works in D&D; in real life it only works for a short while.
    Putin is doing his nuclear 'presence attack' with his nukes-on-alert thing. He's a child threatening a tantrum if he can't get what he wants. Like Trump on January 6.
    Capitol police saved us that day. Perhaps cooler heads in Russia will save us all as well.
    We shall see.

    Ah, yes we do see the world completely differently.


    And, can you elabourate on that past a simple acknowledgement of our different views? I have no idea how your ideas on this work...

    No, I don’t think will; threads like this end up dogs chasing their own tails.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware @j_w_pepper Trump has not launched an invasion of another country or deliberately rained down missiles on innocent civilians. And yet some you still think that Trump is worse than Putin. God help us

    Indeed. Also, while he was in office, there was no substantial aggression by the usual suspects

    Weakness invites aggression ; this is becoming apparent. Look for the Chinese to move on Taiwan before the 2024 elections
    Your outlook here sir is dated IMHO. Weakness invites aggression in the the law of the jungle. If you believe us to be merely smarter animals rooted in savagery then you are of course correct. If like me you believe we are evolving beyond subjugation & predatory behaviour to survive then you are incorrect.
    My early childhood was violent. My early school bullying was tough. At 13 I learned martial arts thanks to a movie that starred Bruce Lee. Still, my geek Star Trek fan demeanour invited aggression. I became the geek that would 'kick you until you decided it wasn't worth the fight'. Basically, I repelled the assholes without having to hurt them severely.
    And here I am today, believing that you have to be strong, but that strength comes from reality, not projection. A 'presence attack' works in D&D; in real life it only works for a short while.
    Putin is doing his nuclear 'presence attack' with his nukes-on-alert thing. He's a child threatening a tantrum if he can't get what he wants. Like Trump on January 6.
    Capitol police saved us that day. Perhaps cooler heads in Russia will save us all as well.
    We shall see.

    Ah, yes we do see the world completely differently.


    And, can you elabourate on that past a simple acknowledgement of our different views? I have no idea how your ideas on this work...

    No, I don’t think will; threads like this end up dogs chasing their own tails.

    So you call yourself dog in this discussion?
    Seriously, folks that are afraid to discuss openly are usually folks that deep down afraid they're wrong....
This discussion has been closed.