No Time To Die Script - Alternative pitches/what would you change?

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  • Posts: 4,166
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Yeah this is it for me: Mendes had the Bond touch, Fukunaga didn't.
    I know they've previously had a directors-from-the-Commonwealth rule, which in prospect I don't really agree with, but maybe there actually was something there? Perhaps you need to have grown up with Bond films on telly on a Bank Holiday to fully get it? I don't know. Certainly I'd say that both QoS and NTTD kind of missed the spot for me in that they didn't really feel Bondy enough.
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not so much as a script change as it is a change in general, but I wish Craig had played Bond a bit more consistently throughout the film. It's not entirely his fault though the changing tone doesn't help

    I love his portrayal in Matera, especially Jamaica and through most of Safin's Island. He's stoic and a bit sharp in his interactions, which suits a retired Bond. His meeting with Nomi being the best example "it's commander Bond" and "in my humble opinion the world doesn't change much"

    He is a wounded animal, that Fukunaga spoke about in one of the trailers, but its forgotten when he gets to Cuba and even more so in London. I just think his portrayal is less interesting Cuba onwards

    Yeah, the film is brilliantly shot for sure. Apart from the shift in tone, Fukunaga isn't very inventive with the action scenes. Action-wise nothing extraordinary happens in Cuba. The Norway chase looked like it would be a show stopper in the trailers, but it was very disappointing. The lab attack..nothing special...nothing suspenseful. Compare that to Necros attacking with milk and kidnapping Koskov in TLD. It's just the Matera sequence and the Bunker shootout that's very solid.

    Yep, 100% agree.
    007HallY wrote: »
    But yeah, it’s worth saying that if you disliked NTTD for killing Bond, then Boyle’s version would have made absolutely no difference.

    The only reason I had any sense that Bond was about to die when I was watching it was that, when Boyle left the project, there were lots of rumours that it was because he killed Bond in his script and Eon didn't want that(!) - that and Eon had loads of 'don't tell anyone what happens' notices around after the premiere, which is a bit of a tip-off that someone dies!


    I don’t know. There’s something inherently British about the ridiculousness of Bond films though. There’s often a sense that it’s not fully taking itself fully seriously, and yet at the same time is well crafted entertainment that stands up on its own. That’s the only way I can describe it anyway. Maybe it’s something to do with our sense of humour/irony (a lot of the commonwealth countries seem to have similar types of humour).

    I didn’t know about Bond’s death prior to watching NTTD, but I was discussing this with a friend a while back who said they worked it out during the film when it was revealed Bond had a child. Makes sense I guess - like, James Bond isn’t going to ride off into the sunset with his family, neither will they die. The only options are he has to separate himself from them and it becomes cannon that Bond has a family he can’t see (for some reason) or Craig’s Bond dies and none of this matters for the next Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Yeah, regardless of its flaws, I think the film sets up that feeling of inevitability pretty well: I think you know there's no way this can end well as soon as he seems to have a happy future within reach.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I suspect it’s more a case of Fukunaga simply not having that specific ‘Bondian’ touch that Mendes and Campbell have. It’s that sort of heightened reality but ‘tongue in cheek’ approach that results in coming up with stuff like the tank chase in GE, or the train sequence during the PTS of SF - a good dose of tension depicted in a straightforward manner mixed with that undercurrent of absurdity which defines the whole sequence (ie. Why would Bond know how to drive a tank? Why would the bulldozers on the train even be working? No need to think about it, no one else is anyway because the scene is gripping as it is). It’s not quite like the Cuba sequence which defaults to more elaborate choreography, cinematography and tone. It doesn’t quite have that same blending of reality and fantasy. Not to say that Fukunaga’s a bad director at all, he just doesn’t quite have that quality. It’s something I found missing from NTTD anyway.

    Yeah this is it for me: Mendes had the Bond touch, Fukunaga didn't.
    I know they've previously had a directors-from-the-Commonwealth rule, which in prospect I don't really agree with, but maybe there actually was something there? Perhaps you need to have grown up with Bond films on telly on a Bank Holiday to fully get it? I don't know. Certainly I'd say that both QoS and NTTD kind of missed the spot for me in that they didn't really feel Bondy enough.
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not so much as a script change as it is a change in general, but I wish Craig had played Bond a bit more consistently throughout the film. It's not entirely his fault though the changing tone doesn't help

    I love his portrayal in Matera, especially Jamaica and through most of Safin's Island. He's stoic and a bit sharp in his interactions, which suits a retired Bond. His meeting with Nomi being the best example "it's commander Bond" and "in my humble opinion the world doesn't change much"

    He is a wounded animal, that Fukunaga spoke about in one of the trailers, but its forgotten when he gets to Cuba and even more so in London. I just think his portrayal is less interesting Cuba onwards

    Yeah, the film is brilliantly shot for sure. Apart from the shift in tone, Fukunaga isn't very inventive with the action scenes. Action-wise nothing extraordinary happens in Cuba. The Norway chase looked like it would be a show stopper in the trailers, but it was very disappointing. The lab attack..nothing special...nothing suspenseful. Compare that to Necros attacking with milk and kidnapping Koskov in TLD. It's just the Matera sequence and the Bunker shootout that's very solid.

    Yep, 100% agree.
    007HallY wrote: »
    But yeah, it’s worth saying that if you disliked NTTD for killing Bond, then Boyle’s version would have made absolutely no difference.

    The only reason I had any sense that Bond was about to die when I was watching it was that, when Boyle left the project, there were lots of rumours that it was because he killed Bond in his script and Eon didn't want that(!) - that and Eon had loads of 'don't tell anyone what happens' notices around after the premiere, which is a bit of a tip-off that someone dies!


    I don’t know. There’s something inherently British about the ridiculousness of Bond films though. There’s often a sense that it’s not fully taking itself fully seriously, and yet at the same time is well crafted entertainment that stands up on its own. That’s the only way I can describe it anyway. Maybe it’s something to do with our sense of humour/irony (a lot of the commonwealth countries seem to have similar types of humour).

    I didn’t know about Bond’s death prior to watching NTTD, but I was discussing this with a friend a while back who said they worked it out during the film when it was revealed Bond had a child. Makes sense I guess - like, James Bond isn’t going to ride off into the sunset with his family, neither will they die. The only options are he has to separate himself from them and it becomes cannon that Bond has a family he can’t see (for some reason) or Craig’s Bond dies and none of this matters for the next Bond.

    I also didn't know that Bond was going to die. (I avoided the forum for weeks.)

    But I started piecing it together when Q started talking about how the nanobots target families. And then the daughter shows up, and I was like, yeah, that's going to happen.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited May 26 Posts: 2,047
    For me, ever since the rumour came out, I strongly suspected Bond was dying in this one. Plus, listening to the score before watching the film all but, confirmed it. I started getting the worrying feeling when I listened to Zimmer's I'll Be Right Back, before Final Ascent sealed it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    I still think they should have leaned more into Safin's lifelong obsession with Madeleine. That could have easily, simply, dramatically explained his motivation, and like every good mad scientist, he could have had an evil plan to keep Bond and Madeline apart forever, by infecting Bond. Just a few tweaks in a scene or two.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    echo wrote: »
    I still think they should have leaned more into Safin's lifelong obsession with Madeleine. That could have easily, simply, dramatically explained his motivation, and like every good mad scientist, he could have had an evil plan to keep Bond and Madeline apart forever, by infecting Bond. Just a few tweaks in a scene or two.

    I'm guessing they didn't lean into that so much as they rather got their fingers burned in the previous film with having Blofeld be Bond's stepbrother pulling the strings from behind the scenes all along - the author of all his pain. It all sounds rather silly when compared to previous Bond films prior to the Craig era. No doubt they felt this was too similar to what had went before in terms of motivation. What they came up with instead was rather muddled and it's not clear exactly what Safin's plan is for the nanobots more widely after the initial objective of wiping out all of Spectre. There is the mumbo jumbo Safin goes over to Bond which points to a God complex but it's all rather vague in terms of motivation. For a film which took so long to come out you'd think they'd have had enough time to get all the creases in the script fully ironed out but it seems not.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    I think it's amazing they did as well with the script as they did, after they had to shelve the Boyle script and dust off the P&W script. It's fairly coherent but I think the seams show when the films gets to Safin and his plan.

    Malek is not nearly as good an actor as Waltz is, but Malek ironically nailed the weirdness of his character much better than Waltz did in SP. Waltz did better in NTTD in his one scene. And NTTD generally has the best set of villains and henchmen since at least CR.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 26 Posts: 16,418
    I don't think Safin's plan for Heracles is a huge plot hole to be honest. The last act sweeps along effectively enough that I'm not sure most people watching it would have been worrying about it: he's a Bond villain, he wants to sell an evil world-destroying weapon.
    I'm actually watching it at the moment, and I'm warming to it a bit. It's a very decent film. Everyone is excellent in it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Don't get me wrong. I think NTTD is great and admirably does a lot of new things with Bond thus moving the film series forward into new areas. I just think a little more time could've been spent developing the Safin character more and focusing on what he wants to do with Heracles after wiping out Spectre. All it would've taken was a few little script and dialogue tweaks here and there. Still, the film is what it is and we have to work with what's there on the screen and make the best of it.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong. I think NTTD is great and admirably does a lot of new things with Bond thus moving the film series forward into new areas. I just think a little more time could've been spent developing the Safin character more and focusing on what he wants to do with Heracles after wiping out Spectre. All it would've taken was a few little script and dialogue tweaks here and there. Still, the film is what it is and we have to work with what's there on the screen and make the best of it.

    I agree, and also feel that the portrayal of Safin would have benefitted from Malek using something closer to his own voice; the ambiguous accent was distracting and unnecessary.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    talos7 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong. I think NTTD is great and admirably does a lot of new things with Bond thus moving the film series forward into new areas. I just think a little more time could've been spent developing the Safin character more and focusing on what he wants to do with Heracles after wiping out Spectre. All it would've taken was a few little script and dialogue tweaks here and there. Still, the film is what it is and we have to work with what's there on the screen and make the best of it.

    I agree, and also feel that the portrayal of Safin would have benefitted from Malek using something closer to his own voice; the ambiguous accent was distracting and unnecessary.

    Yes, the creepy old man voice was a strange choice. It sounded quite disembodied but maybe that was the intention? It also made some of the dialogue quite hard to make out sometimes, which isn't really ideal.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Yeah I think the problem there for me was that he was doing a Bond villain accent. Which is maybe a bit too on the nose when you're actually playing a Bond villain!

    For all of his potential miscasting, I rather liked that Robert Carlyle aimed for an authentic Bosnian (was it?) accent for Renard: it was a new accent for a villain.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Yes, that's it. It sounded like he was trying too hard to create a mysterious Bond villain accent but it just ended up sounding strange and not really matching the character. He became the oldest young man alive. It was creepy and strange though, so there was that. Sometimes less is more though and he did have the scars so that would've been enough with his normal voice or with a Russian accent.
  • edited May 27 Posts: 4,166
    Malek’s accent is strange, agreed. It’s a sort of nowhere European accent. Then again the character’s name is essentially Lucifer Satan so I suppose we’re working with a level of Bondian ridiculousness.

    And yeah, his motivation at the end of the film losses me somewhat. It doesn’t help we’re not entirely given the specifics of the ‘buyers’. Feels like if they were going all the way with the idea of Safin having gone mad/wanting to destroy the world he should have been the one to release the nanobots.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. It sounded like he was trying too hard to create a mysterious Bond villain accent but it just ended up sounding strange and not really matching the character. He became the oldest young man alive. It was creepy and strange though, so there was that. Sometimes less is more though and he did have the scars so that would've been enough with his normal voice or with a Russian accent.

    To be fair I kinda found it interesting that Safin was seemingly this 45 year old with the body (and soul) of an old, cynical man. It plays into his physical ailments/what Spectre did to him.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Yes, the change in voice could well have been the effects of the poisoning. This would be just like how another enemy of mankind, Adolf Hitler, had a very distinctive raspy "voice of Satan" as a result of being gassed with mustard gas during World War I.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 27 Posts: 16,418
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.

    It did feel quite realistic without any gadgetry at hand in the vehicle. I think that was what they were going for there. Bond in an ordinary family car with his family on board and only his wits and his skill as a driver to assist him.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,047
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.

    Yes. That location needed something peculiar for Bond to do. The trailers really told us to expect something big from that sequence and it didn't live up to the hype. You can't imagine the previous Bond directors not doing something unique with Bond in that sequence.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 27 Posts: 16,418
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.

    Yes. That location needed something peculiar for Bond to do. The trailers really told us to expect something big from that sequence and it didn't live up to the hype. You can't imagine the previous Bond directors not doing something unique with Bond in that sequence.

    Yeah definitely. The Aston chase had the machine gun doughnut, which was a great idea.
    And I loved the shot of the Land Rovers and bikes all doing huge jumps down that hillside, that looks amazing. I'd have liked to have seen more big crazy 4x4 action like that in the chase.

    I don't know what would have been the big stunt though. Maybe Bond is cornered, sees a sort of outcrop at a higher level leading to the forest which is inaccessible, but spots his chance and somehow uses one of the Land Rovers to scrabble his car over to get up to it and away from all of them (smashing the other car on the way of course).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited May 27 Posts: 2,047
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.

    Yes. That location needed something peculiar for Bond to do. The trailers really told us to expect something big from that sequence and it didn't live up to the hype. You can't imagine the previous Bond directors not doing something unique with Bond in that sequence.

    Yeah definitely. The Aston chase had the machine gun doughnut, which was a great idea.
    And I loved the shot of the Land Rovers and bikes all doing huge jumps down that hillside, that looks amazing. I'd have liked to have seen more big crazy 4x4 action like that in the chase.

    I don't know what would have been the big stunt though. Maybe Bond is cornered, sees a sort of outcrop at a higher level leading to the forest which is inaccessible, but spots his chance and somehow uses one of the Land Rovers to scrabble his car over to get up to it and away from all of them (smashing the other car on the way of course).

    Yeah, cool idea...or maybe deforestation happening with workers in the forest, trees falling, fire present, then Bond has to do something unique with the situation as they drive through the deforestation process.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Oh that's a very nice idea, yeah. Some logging machinery coming into play.
  • Posts: 1,993
    I wish NTTD could have been what the first film wasn't, a faithful adaptation of the novel.
    It wouldn't have been a remake as the original film barely recognized the novel.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 28 Posts: 6,304
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching it last night, I really felt like the 4x4 chase needed Bond to do something big and crazy to get them away from the chasing cars on the plain- even just something as simple as a big car jump. A bit of a Bond moment. Just nudging another Land Rover into a flip isn't quite enough.

    Yes. That location needed something peculiar for Bond to do. The trailers really told us to expect something big from that sequence and it didn't live up to the hype. You can't imagine the previous Bond directors not doing something unique with Bond in that sequence.

    Yeah definitely. The Aston chase had the machine gun doughnut, which was a great idea.
    And I loved the shot of the Land Rovers and bikes all doing huge jumps down that hillside, that looks amazing. I'd have liked to have seen more big crazy 4x4 action like that in the chase.

    I don't know what would have been the big stunt though. Maybe Bond is cornered, sees a sort of outcrop at a higher level leading to the forest which is inaccessible, but spots his chance and somehow uses one of the Land Rovers to scrabble his car over to get up to it and away from all of them (smashing the other car on the way of course).

    Yeah, cool idea...or maybe deforestation happening with workers in the forest, trees falling, fire present, then Bond has to do something unique with the situation as they drive through the deforestation process.

    Very cool. Also the elevated curved road needed something to happen on it...a car flying off it, a helicopter appearing, something, anything...
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I wish NTTD could have been what the first film wasn't, a faithful adaptation of the novel.
    It wouldn't have been a remake as the original film barely recognized the novel.

    I thought NTTD was a very interesting adaptation. They did a nice job of taking the ideas and making it cinematic, which, let's be honest, the novel is not.

    It *would* have been interesting to see a depressed Bond sent on an impossible mission by M, but when they did DAF as they did, they tossed away OHMSS and closed off that journey for Bond. So maybe I blame Mankiewicz.
  • Posts: 910
    echo wrote: »
    It *would* have been interesting to see a depressed Bond sent on an impossible mission by M, but when they did DAF as they did, they tossed away OHMSS and closed off that journey for Bond. So maybe I blame Mankiewicz.
    Cubby is apparently more responsible than Mankiewicz since all links with Blofeld and OHMSS had been removed during the time Maibaum was working on the script and Goldfinger's brother had become the main antagonist.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    I'm really intrigued by these pieces of concept art...

    aIQCCjh.png
    pvfo3fE.png
    e8hU3ql.png
  • edited July 4 Posts: 4,166
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I'm really intrigued by these pieces of concept art...

    aIQCCjh.png
    pvfo3fE.png
    e8hU3ql.png

    Are these the set designs from Boyle's version? I remember one of Browning's digital illustrations of that version involving an underwater lab of some sort. Looks a bit like these, although these are more detailed.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Maybe a bit similar to Skyfall's Japanese Island, but the flooded town is a cool location regardless.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    mtm wrote: »
    Maybe a bit similar to Skyfall's Japanese Island, but the flooded town is a cool location regardless.
    Yeah, I'd love to see a concept like that used in the future.
  • Posts: 1,993
    Certainly more interesting than anything I saw in NTTD.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Was there an idea at one stage that Bond would return to space in NTTD? I think I saw or read something about that.
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