Skyfall To Introduce SMERSH?

13

Comments

  • JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Quantum are only forgettable because we haven't seen what they are just yet and won't for a while. Until we do, hold fire!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,713
    001 wrote:
    Maybe blofelds son as the leader.
    But we're in a new timeline, remember? We haven't even established that Blofeld exists, so it's a little difficult to introduce his son. And if this son is the son of the Blofeld from the days of Sean Connery, it violates the new continuity.

    Who cares about timeline and continuity ? Completly secondary and unimportant element to what Bond films are about. I don't want continuity, I want fun, humour, gags, escapism, glamour, entertainement. If it means 'violating' the new 'continuity' by bringing in Blofeld's son, then so be it, as long as it makes the films fun.
  • 001 wrote:
    Maybe blofelds son as the leader.
    But we're in a new timeline, remember? We haven't even established that Blofeld exists, so it's a little difficult to introduce his son. And if this son is the son of the Blofeld from the days of Sean Connery, it violates the new continuity.

    Who cares about timeline and continuity ? Completly secondary and unimportant element to what Bond films are about. I don't want continuity, I want fun, humour, gags, escapism, glamour, entertainement. If it means 'violating' the new 'continuity' by bringing in Blofeld's son, then so be it.

    Why blofelds son, why not blofeld????????? I also want some fun, homour, glamour and entertainment to balance out the dark, realistic side of bond we've seen. CR was awesome, but QOS was terrible and now I want a proper bond film
  • Posts: 5,745
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.

    It would be suicide to the serious-ness of the series. That unstable of a foundation in the writing, switching from one big organization to another, seemingly with Bond unaware of the previous and the two organizations apparently not enemies while not allies would just be ridiculous.

    Don't bite into another chocolate chip cookie just seconds after biting into the first. Finish one, then consider the next.

    Like Sam said, Quantum still has ALOT of potential. At least do us people who care about continuity and intelligence of giving Quantum a write off.. at least!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Since we have Quantum, why do we need SPECTRE? They're practically the same thing: a bunch of Europeans trying to take over the world some way. Quantum is just more subtle in their actions, and we've yet to see their leader (or even find out why they named themselves "Quantum"), so we've still got some time to go before we find out why they do what they do.

    And as for continuity: it's nice to see some real continuity between Bond films. Before they were all just one-off adventures that had nothing to do with one another, now they're all a part of a bigger picture, and I'd love to see that picture when the painter is finished.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Whether Quantum is ever used again or not, 'evil' organisations work well in the Bonds. I deeply regret the fact that Janus wasn't revived somehow after GE, although I can see the logic in leaving it dead since, well, that condition can be correctly applied to most of its members. As for SPECTRE, like many more elements from the old Bond formula it can be given a proper facelift and as such be pulled into the modern realm of the Bonds. Any well-manufactured plot/script should have zero trouble convincing us of a modern SPECTRE. In some of my wilder Bond dreams, I see Quantum as either a precursor to the much bigger SPECTRE, or as an ally to SPECTRE, maybe even an enemy - unfriendly competition.

    The real problem is that Quantum, by the mere fact of the film's title, cannot be disconnected from QoS. Reviving Quantum in one of the next Bonds will automatically raise confusion as to whether or not this Bond film is to be tied with QoS. The problem with SPECTRE, IMO, plays out on the level of its leader, Blofeld. Can we bring back Blofeld? While a modern Blofeld needs not be of the Dr Evil type of villains, we should still consider the possibility that there's little room for such a character outside the somewhat innocent and naive spy craze of the '60s.

    Altogether I don't think it's impossible to continue with Quantum in the nearby future or even to resurrect SPECTRE. A good screenwriter can surely live up to the challenge. However, will it add something substantial to the series that justifies the risks involved? I wonder.
  • Posts: 1,894
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.
    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh
    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.
    Having Bond go from battling one evil, faceless organisation to battling a second evil, faceless organisation would be stupid. And despite people reading far too much into comments made by John Logan and Ralph Fiennes, Blofeld (and therefore SPECRTE) will not be appearing in SKYFALL. The film has no connection to any of the novels, and no content from any of the films.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.

    It would be suicide to the serious-ness of the series.

    Good. Better now than never.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    The film has no connection to any of the novels, and no content from any of the films.

    Yet despite the fact that I also don't think we'll see SPECTRE and Blofeld return to the series any time soon, I don't think the argument holds. Having no connection to the novels or previous films hasn't ever stopped them from using e.g. familiar characters (like Felix Leiter).

  • edited December 2011 Posts: 5,745
    Shark wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.

    It would be suicide to the serious-ness of the series.

    Good. Better now than never.

    Let me re-phrase. The professionalism of the series. I meant the crew behind the production of the films. Flip-flopping like that would just be silly.
  • Posts: 1,894
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Having no connection to the novels or previous films hasn't ever stopped them from using e.g. familiar characters (like Felix Leiter).
    Characters, yes. Plot elements, not so much.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    They've taken plot elements from the novels and put them into unrelated films. License to Kill is the quickest example to come to.
  • Posts: 1,894
    But they've specifically said that they won't do it in SKYFALL
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 5,745
    Exactly. They're holding elements such as characters and locations, but not specific storylines or organizations.

    SMERSH is part of a government, something we haven't seen Bond really truly go against quite yet.

    MI:GP balanced it perfectly, with Hunt & co being hunted by essentially a modern SMERSH agent, while trying to prove to said agent they weren't responsible for the Kremlin explosion.

    Skyfall could introduce SMERSH as the Russian CIA or whatever, without taking anything from the book. Besides maybe their Siberian origin.


    But they've specifically said that they won't do it in SKYFALL

    *sigh, preaching to a deaf audience (:|
    They've taken plot elements from the novels and put them into unrelated films. License to Kill is the quickest example to come to.
  • Posts: 1,894
    Yes, it could introduce SMERSH again. I'm well aware of that. But the most-recent conversations dicuss the possibility of SPECTRE appearing, not SMERSH. That's what I was talking about - both Mendes and EON have specifically stated that they won't take elements from previous films and incorporate them into SKYFALL. And that means no SPECTRE.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Yes, it could introduce SMERSH again. I'm well aware of that. But the most-recent conversations dicuss the possibility of SPECTRE appearing, not SMERSH. That's what I was talking about - both Mendes and EON have specifically stated that they won't take elements from previous films and incorporate them into SKYFALL. And that means no SPECTRE.

    Sorry, my previous post is unclear, and I regret that. I agree with you, and I intended to demonstrate that both me and you seem to be preaching to a deaf audience. :-h
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh
    Why have either when we have Quantum? It's newer, has promise, and can be used effectively. SMERSH is completely dissolved and lost in the Cold War era forever and Spectre has had its moments of fame. I say let Quantum up to bat.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Yes, it could introduce SMERSH again. I'm well aware of that. But the most-recent conversations dicuss the possibility of SPECTRE appearing, not SMERSH. That's what I was talking about - both Mendes and EON have specifically stated that they won't take elements from previous films and incorporate them into SKYFALL. And that means no SPECTRE.

    Sorry, my previous post is unclear, and I regret that. I agree with you, and I intended to demonstrate that both me and you seem to be preaching to a deaf audience. :-h

    Your argument almost doesn't work, because you quote me as being the deaf audience, and both of your arguments were in response to that quote.

    Also, if explaining myself helps: I never believe what the producers say until the film comes out. Anything they say could be misdirection to get us thinking away from the true subject of the film so that we can be surprised (either pleasantly or angrily) when the film finally comes out. So, they could say they're using nothing from the novels, but until the movie actually arrives in theaters and we all see it, we really don't know if they mean that.

    Another example: The Spy Who Loved Me. Fleming didn't allow anything but the title to be used for the film, but the two henchmen in the novel became Jaws and Sandor in the film.
  • Posts: 15,106
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Whether Quantum is ever used again or not, 'evil' organisations work well in the Bonds. I deeply regret the fact that Janus wasn't revived somehow after GE, although I can see the logic in leaving it dead since, well, that condition can be correctly applied to most of its members. As for SPECTRE, like many more elements from the old Bond formula it can be given a proper facelift and as such be pulled into the modern realm of the Bonds. Any well-manufactured plot/script should have zero trouble convincing us of a modern SPECTRE. In some of my wilder Bond dreams, I see Quantum as either a precursor to the much bigger SPECTRE, or as an ally to SPECTRE, maybe even an enemy - unfriendly competition.

    The real problem is that Quantum, by the mere fact of the film's title, cannot be disconnected from QoS. Reviving Quantum in one of the next Bonds will automatically raise confusion as to whether or not this Bond film is to be tied with QoS. The problem with SPECTRE, IMO, plays out on the level of its leader, Blofeld. Can we bring back Blofeld? While a modern Blofeld needs not be of the Dr Evil type of villains, we should still consider the possibility that there's little room for such a character outside the somewhat innocent and naive spy craze of the '60s.

    Altogether I don't think it's impossible to continue with Quantum in the nearby future or even to resurrect SPECTRE. A good screenwriter can surely live up to the challenge. However, will it add something substantial to the series that justifies the risks involved? I wonder.

    It's funny I always thought the same about Janus. I loved GE but I thought it was a missed opportunity: why not have made Trevelyan the field commander for the Goldeneye operation and have another big baddie above him, a Blofeld/Grubozaboyschikov kind of character? You have pretty much the same film, with the same antagonism between Bond and Trevelyan that gets resolved, yet you create another one for future movies, and an organisation that gained vital importance about MI6 from 006.

    I think Quantum can and should be reused, if only to tie things up: they can be destroyed after one big last showdown, or during a PTS (I would prefer the former). Then they can introduce a new recurring adversary, SPECTRE and/or SMERSH,and/ or Blofeld. If they ditch the bald head, the scar and the cat, average viewers will not even make the connection between Blofeld and Dr. Evil.

  • Posts: 5,745
    You don't build on a story-line or story element for 2 films, 5 hours total, and then get rid of them in under 15 minutes.

    That's just stupid.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Blofeld will not appear in any of DC's 007 films. It will be about Quantum and rightly so. Mr White is a great casing point as well as Gettler who sadly we hardly saw anything of.

    If Blofeld should return in the future? He should have a complete image change? Not sure in what way? But he should be ruthless and meaner than anything we have seen before from Bond's arch enemy! However? THE CAT STAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

    As that would be like Bond without his Tuxedo!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    RogueAgent wrote:
    THE CAT STAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

    I agree. The cat should always stay.
  • Posts: 15,106
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Blofeld will not appear in any of DC's 007 films. It will be about Quantum and rightly so. Mr White is a great casing point as well as Gettler who sadly we hardly saw anything of.

    If Blofeld should return in the future? He should have a complete image change? Not sure in what way? But he should be ruthless and meaner than anything we have seen before from Bond's arch enemy! However? THE CAT STAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

    As that would be like Bond without his Tuxedo!

    The cat was a nice gimmick, but overdone. It is in NO WAY essential to the character. Why not a Blofeld closer to the one of the novels?

  • Posts: 12,526
    As daft as it sounds? It just wouldn't feel right?
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 12,837
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.
    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh
    Quantum are easily forgettable villians. And they could always have bond take them out. I'd love to see spectre return.
    Having Bond go from battling one evil, faceless organisation to battling a second evil, faceless organisation would be stupid. And despite people reading far too much into comments made by John Logan and Ralph Fiennes, Blofeld (and therefore SPECRTE) will not be appearing in SKYFALL. The film has no connection to any of the novels, and no content from any of the films.

    Even if spectre don't return there's no reason why blofeld can't return acting solo. Its a new timeline, anythigns possible. But yeah, I suppose there's no need for spectre since there's quantum, but then, there's no need for smersh either. Personally I hope skyfall introduces blofeld in some way, shape or form, but doesn't include quantum and is still a GF type adventure
  • JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    well by that logic, why have smersh???
  • Posts: 1,894
    Even if spectre don't return there's no reason why blofeld can't return acting solo.
    Just imagine the outrage SKYFALL had Blofeld as the villain, but no SPECTRE. In case you missed it, Blofeld is SPECTRE. One cannot exist without the other.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Not necessarily. DAF worked just fine with Blofeld but no mention of SPECTRE.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 5,745
    But yeah, I suppose there's no need for spectre since there's quantum, but then, there's no need for smersh either.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    solace wrote:
    Smersh no. Spectre yes.

    Why spectre when we have Quantum?! *sigh

    well by that logic, why have smersh???

    Because, for the millionth time:

    Quantum is a faceless, 'evil' organization to the new timeline as was SPECTRE is a faceless, 'evil' organization to the old timeline.

    SMERSH is a governmental elite assasination/hit squad for the Russian government in NO timeline.

    Your logic makes no.. sense. You cant say "We can't have SPECTRE because we have Quantum" and then say "So we can't have SMERSH because we.. erm.. hmph. I dunno."

    Get it now?

    It will be hard to keep this discussion going at a quality pace if we keep lingering on things that have already been argued and proven!

    We can't have SPECTRE because Quantum is essentially the same as SPECTRE. There is NOTHING the same as SMERSH yet introduced in the new timeline.
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