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Die Another Day vs Quantum of Solace

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  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Following seeing all the films again in the last month or so, I would have to change my opinion and say QOS is better than DAD. The plot of QOS is poor and carries no real weight, excitment or real interest but DAD features too many bad moments to not be bottom of the pile.
  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    Both films sort of crashed the franchise, DAD for obvious reasons, but QoS because it - only second film into the reboot - began to pay tributes or homages to previous films, sort of wimped out rather than building on the look and success of CR. Also, took the action into realms that were unnecessary for the supposedly more grounded Craig (the dogfight, for instance).
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    Didn't someone (@Beast I think it was) start something like this, some time back, about pairing two Bond movies together and choosing which was the best one, or is this just a one off ?

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2274/bond-movie-a-vs.-bond-movie-b-casino-royale-vs.-skyfall
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    Posts: 546
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?

    Ah, duh. The entire film is about Bond trying to deny to himself how much Vesper meant to him. He gave up his guard, got hurt, and tries to mask the pain. When he quickly pockets her photo in the Sienna house, when he can't even utter the drink he is having on the plane with Mathis (because it would mean he would have to say "Vesper", how he references her all over the place until we get to his confrontation with Yusef are all examples of his denial and hurt over her. The film is all a process of Bond realizing and appreciating all Vesper meant to him and how special she was, and with the toss of her love knot into the snow Bond shows that he is finally ready to accept that and move on.

    No need to be a smart ass! I don't think anybody understood what James Bond was doing at that for. (Even Sir Roger Moore said that) So stop getting a boo boo face everytimme someone talks about the flaws in Quantum of Solace.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?

    Ah, duh. The entire film is about Bond trying to deny to himself how much Vesper meant to him. He gave up his guard, got hurt, and tries to mask the pain. When he quickly pockets her photo in the Sienna house, when he can't even utter the drink he is having on the plane with Mathis (because it would mean he would have to say "Vesper", how he references her all over the place until we get to his confrontation with Yusef are all examples of his denial and hurt over her. The film is all a process of Bond realizing and appreciating all Vesper meant to him and how special she was, and with the toss of her love knot into the snow Bond shows that he is finally ready to accept that and move on.

    No need to be a smart ass! I don't think anybody understood what James Bond was doing at that for. (Even Sir Roger Moore said that) So stop getting a boo boo face everytimme someone talks about the flaws in Quantum of Solace.

    It isn't a flaw just because you don't understand the character of Bond and what he is going through. I thought it was obvious to see that his denial (and calling Vesper a bitch) was his way of acting like she meant nothing to him. As I said, he let his guard down, let her in, and he fell hard, only to get betrayed. It hurts for him to admit it to M on the phone, and especially to himself. That is not a flaw, but one of the greatest takes on the character ever, continued beautifully in the scenes I explained from QoS.
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    'Ah, duh' was a bit harsh though :-)..he even stated openly he didn't fully understand what the writers' intentions were. That said, my take does match yours Brady...Bond trying to slip his armour back on.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Thepastykid wrote:
    'Ah, duh' was a bit harsh though :-)..he even stated openly he didn't fully understand what the writers' intentions were. That said, my take does match yours Brady...Bond trying to slip his armour back on.

    I am protective of my QoS, so when the obvious is criticized as a major flaw I go on defense.
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    I see that- which is why I put a smiley on it...
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    edited January 2013 Posts: 546
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?

    Ah, duh. The entire film is about Bond trying to deny to himself how much Vesper meant to him. He gave up his guard, got hurt, and tries to mask the pain. When he quickly pockets her photo in the Sienna house, when he can't even utter the drink he is having on the plane with Mathis (because it would mean he would have to say "Vesper", how he references her all over the place until we get to his confrontation with Yusef are all examples of his denial and hurt over her. The film is all a process of Bond realizing and appreciating all Vesper meant to him and how special she was, and with the toss of her love knot into the snow Bond shows that he is finally ready to accept that and move on.

    No need to be a smart ass! I don't think anybody understood what James Bond was doing at that for. (Even Sir Roger Moore said that) So stop getting a boo boo face everytimme someone talks about the flaws in Quantum of Solace.

    It isn't a flaw just because you don't understand the character of Bond and what he is going through. I thought it was obvious to see that his denial (and calling Vesper a bitch) was his way of acting like she meant nothing to him. As I said, he let his guard down, let her in, and he fell hard, only to get betrayed. It hurts for him to admit it to M on the phone, and especially to himself. That is not a flaw, but one of the greatest takes on the character ever, continued beautifully in the scenes I explained from QoS.

    I do understand the James Bond charcter & what he was going through in the film. (Obviously) I understand he did care about Vesper. However, James Bond said in the begining of the film that Vesper did not mean nothing to him & niether her boyfriend. So he went though hell & back to avenge Vesper's death. (Even though he said he didn't care about her) It probably left people scratching their heads.
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    He may not have been telling the whole truth...either to himself or to M...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Thepastykid wrote:
    He may not have been telling the whole truth...either to himself or to M...

    He wasn't, that is what I am trying to explain. Good god, I would love to see some people watch Citizen Kane and explain Charles Foster's mindset. They'd probably say he was a looney if they can't fathom why Bond acts this way.
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?

    Ah, duh. The entire film is about Bond trying to deny to himself how much Vesper meant to him. He gave up his guard, got hurt, and tries to mask the pain. When he quickly pockets her photo in the Sienna house, when he can't even utter the drink he is having on the plane with Mathis (because it would mean he would have to say "Vesper", how he references her all over the place until we get to his confrontation with Yusef are all examples of his denial and hurt over her. The film is all a process of Bond realizing and appreciating all Vesper meant to him and how special she was, and with the toss of her love knot into the snow Bond shows that he is finally ready to accept that and move on.

    No need to be a smart ass! I don't think anybody understood what James Bond was doing at that for. (Even Sir Roger Moore said that) So stop getting a boo boo face everytimme someone talks about the flaws in Quantum of Solace.

    It isn't a flaw just because you don't understand the character of Bond and what he is going through. I thought it was obvious to see that his denial (and calling Vesper a bitch) was his way of acting like she meant nothing to him. As I said, he let his guard down, let her in, and he fell hard, only to get betrayed. It hurts for him to admit it to M on the phone, and especially to himself. That is not a flaw, but one of the greatest takes on the character ever, continued beautifully in the scenes I explained from QoS.

    I do understand the James Bond charcter & what he was going through in the film. (Obviously) I understand he did care about Vesper. However, James Bond said in the begining of the film that Vesper did not mean nothing to him & niether her boyfriend. So he went though hell & back to avenge Vesper's death. (Even though he said he didn't care about her) It probably left people scratching their heads.

    That's the whole point. He wants to act like she means nothing to him t not appear vulnerable, while he himself still cares deeply for Vesper. Basically he spends most of the film lying about his true love for her, and doesn't want to admit all she meant to him to M or himself. In that very scene where he says she means nothing to him, he quickly takes Vesper's photo with Yusef off the table and puts it in his suit coat while M turns away. Why else would he take it if he wasn't so in love with her? You see him glaring at it with pain later on in the plane sequence with Mathis as well. This is all rather elementary stuff, film character studies 101.
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    I know he wasn't telling the truth, but I was trying to put it out as something for the guy to think about rather than insult him for openly not being sure how to read it. He is not as big a fan of the film as you for a start. Plus the film does move along at quite a clip leaving little time for the viewer to pause and reflect on motivations.

    Good point about the picture; that is the big reveal that he has yet to let her go in any way...similarly later with the drinking on the plane.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    DAD should have been one of those straight to video movies that seel real well in third world countries. The studio wouldn't even have to worry about marketing costs....bang bang ahhhhhh yo mama....one liner, one liner...boom, boom, and more boom.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I will admit I was harsh, but it was all out of love for QoS. Apologies, @Goldeneye95.
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    DAD should have been one of those straight to video movies that seel real well in third world countries. The studio wouldn't even have to worry about marketing costs....bang bang ahhhhhh yo mama....one liner, one liner...boom, boom, and more boom.

    DAD was the 40th anniversary film. That would never have happened.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    I'm talking about the script quality. 40yrs and all we get is Bond kills the bad guy and saves the girl with a side of protecting the whole world....garbage isn't enough to call DAD.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    I should have asked BB why she always follows up a gooder Bond flick with an action-heavy one. It happened with GE although during the filming Martin Campbell was wondering how many times Bond could save the world while filming the "no.....for me" scene with Trevalyan as though someone could hang on to another person from up top like that.
  • RogersEyebrowRogersEyebrow
    Posts: 20
    QOS for me. I saw it again only a few days ago I can't understand the bad rep it has, but hey, each to their own. I really enjoyed it. Love the opening car chase and the rooftop action through Siena.
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    Posts: 546
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I will admit I was harsh, but it was all out of love for QoS. Apologies, @Goldeneye95.
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    DAD should have been one of those straight to video movies that seel real well in third world countries. The studio wouldn't even have to worry about marketing costs....bang bang ahhhhhh yo mama....one liner, one liner...boom, boom, and more boom.

    DAD was the 40th anniversary film. That would never have happened.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. You are a cool guy. I have nothing against you .Again, your one of the coolset guy's on the threads. Again, I enjoyed Quantum of Solace. I wasn't trying to trash the film. I also apologize for my comment on my first post.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I will admit I was harsh, but it was all out of love for QoS. Apologies, @Goldeneye95.
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    DAD should have been one of those straight to video movies that seel real well in third world countries. The studio wouldn't even have to worry about marketing costs....bang bang ahhhhhh yo mama....one liner, one liner...boom, boom, and more boom.

    DAD was the 40th anniversary film. That would never have happened.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. You are a cool guy. I have nothing against you .Again, your one of the coolset guy's on the threads.

    The thoughts are reciprocal, mate. :)>-
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Goldeneye95 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I will admit I was harsh, but it was all out of love for QoS. Apologies, @Goldeneye95.
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    DAD should have been one of those straight to video movies that seel real well in third world countries. The studio wouldn't even have to worry about marketing costs....bang bang ahhhhhh yo mama....one liner, one liner...boom, boom, and more boom.

    DAD was the 40th anniversary film. That would never have happened.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. You are a cool guy. I have nothing against you .Again, your one of the coolset guy's on the threads.

    The thoughts are reciprocal, mate. :)>-

    U see everyone? QOS causes unity...and solace.;)
  • lahainelahaine
    Posts: 161
    RogersEyebrow wrote:
    QOS for me. I saw it again only a few days ago I can't understand the bad rep it has, but hey, each to their own. I really enjoyed it. Love the opening car chase and the rooftop action through Siena.

    Its a top 10 Bond film for me. Craig greatest performance and of any Bond is in this film. the first 15 minutes are Bond at his best and the film doesn't dip below average apart from odd few minutes. I can see why some Bond fans don't like it cause its a film that needs rewatching a few more times to get it. Its not Craigs greatest Bond film and unless he makes a outright stinker and if this is his weakest of his Bond effots thats pretty good going.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    QOS for me.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited January 2013 Posts: 3,327
    No comparison whatsoever. QoS hands down. There again, almost any film will beat DAD hands down, unless we are talking about bottom-of-the-barrel stuff like Batman & Robin, when the competition then becomes more balanced.

    QoS, for all its faults, tries at least to be a decent movie for the most part. The acting is fairly top notch, Arnold's score is great, Craig is on top form, and the film is not plagued with any of the horrendous tacky moments which are jam-packed to the brim in DAD.

    Couple that with the brilliant Aston Martin PTS car chase, and comparing it to the invisible chase on ice in DAD, and you can see the vast difference in quality with these 2 pictures. Forster attempts multi-complex layers in his direction, where as Tamawhore is all about flashy gimmicks, ZX Spectrum CGI effects and Austin Powers one-liners.

    Nope, there is no competition here with this one I'm afraid.

  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    For me, the films do betray the fact that the same writers and producers are behind them, same with CR imo.

    Bond meeting Mathis at his pad, puts me in mind of meeting the sleeper agent in DAD. Young, ineffectual villain, better suited to Midsomer Murders. Unappealing leading lady. Slightly bizarre villain hideout stuck in the middle of nowhere and strangely undermanned. But most damningly, though both are trying to be different films, both step outside their comfort zone in terms of what is strictly believable, be it the invisible car and parasurfing, or the gratuitous dog fight, CGI and freefall.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    Both have the formula of a Bond film, except that Quantum of Solace does strive to be different in several areas whereas Die Another Day is a compilation of Bond cliches amplified to 11.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Getafix wrote: »
    QoS is an infinitely superior film. Comparisons between the two are not easy to make since the quality is so utterly different. DUD is an unremittingly awful film from start to finish. The whole concept of Bond being kept prisoner by a pathetic Communist monarchy and not being able to escape for over a year (IMO) undermines everything that we know and love about Bond. Doubtless there is some precedent in the novels for this story line, but I found it completely destroys Bond's mistique and sense of invincibility. How pathetic has Bond become if he can't slip by a couple of North Korean guards and bosh Kim Il Jung en route to bedding the local totty at some hotel in Pyongyang?!

    I've said it before, but the storylines and scripts, acting and production values during the Brozza era lost all concept of what the character is about. Not one of those 4 films stands comparison with the preceding films or, thank God, with what we've had from Craig.

    QoS is not a classic, but it's not bad either. I am convinced its reputation will only improve over the years. The opera sequence, for instance, stands comparison with many a classic Bond film, with a genuinely Bondian mix of cool, tension, high-culture and cold-blooded action. I challenge any one to identify a single Brozza scene that comes remotely close.

    I'm going to second this. QOS also has a brilliant opening sequence and Craig is a far superior actor and Bond compared with Brosnan. DAD is borderline parody.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I third it. Any sane person will agree.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Seriously? A no-brainer methinks. QoS all the way!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    QoS is an infinitely superior film. Comparisons between the two are not easy to make since the quality is so utterly different. DUD is an unremittingly awful film from start to finish. The whole concept of Bond being kept prisoner by a pathetic Communist monarchy and not being able to escape for over a year (IMO) undermines everything that we know and love about Bond. Doubtless there is some precedent in the novels for this story line, but I found it completely destroys Bond's mistique and sense of invincibility. How pathetic has Bond become if he can't slip by a couple of North Korean guards and bosh Kim Il Jung en route to bedding the local totty at some hotel in Pyongyang?!

    I've said it before, but the storylines and scripts, acting and production values during the Brozza era lost all concept of what the character is about. Not one of those 4 films stands comparison with the preceding films or, thank God, with what we've had from Craig.

    QoS is not a classic, but it's not bad either. I am convinced its reputation will only improve over the years. The opera sequence, for instance, stands comparison with many a classic Bond film, with a genuinely Bondian mix of cool, tension, high-culture and cold-blooded action. I challenge any one to identify a single Brozza scene that comes remotely close.

    I'm going to second this. QOS also has a brilliant opening sequence and Craig is a far superior actor and Bond compared with Brosnan. DAD is borderline parody.

    This.

    I don't rate DAD at all. It's actually a disgrace.

  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    I'd go for QoS all the way. The only thing I like about DAD is the PTS.
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