Indiana Jones IV vs. Die Another Day (Bad vs. Bad)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2013 Posts: 17,804
    And of course all of this shite is rendered in lovely CGI not the real stunt work that Speilberg promised.

    F**king abysmal.
    A LOT more was practical than I had imagined. I'd assumed it was ALL CGI.

    Forgive me please for having as much fun with Indy 4 as I have with Octopussy here. :))
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    hoppimike wrote:
    and I didn't like The Dark Knight Rises either

    Nah I'm not big on Dark Knight. Not huge on Batman in general though.

    That pretty much explains why.

    lol, agreed! :)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    And of course all of this shite is rendered in lovely CGI not the real stunt work that Speilberg promised.

    F**king abysmal.
    A LOT more was practical than I had imagined. I'd assumed it was ALL CGI.

    Forgive me please for having as much fun with Indy 4 as I have with Octopussy here. :))

    I've got no big problems with the first 40 odd minutes (although I have to say I find all the exposition about the conquistadors in the cell with Mutt an incredibly dull sequence) but as others have said its like DAD and Iceland. Once it moves to the Amazon it seriously drops off a cliff. The jungle chase starts off OK and then gets worse and worse (Mutt straddling two jeeps) before the monkey swing, the car jumping into the river and the waterfall shambles (and if you're telling me all that was done for real I'm afraid I'll have to call you a liar).

    By the end you have Indy trudging along with a cast of thousands (all of whom are annoying to a greater or lesser degree - Ray Winstone serves absolutely no purpose and should've been killed off during the jungle chase, Marion is a parody of her former self and John Hurt must've made some shocking investments if he had to sign up to play this horrendous part to fund his pension. I actually find Mutt the best of them) with no real reason to put themselves in peril except to take the skull back. Once there they all just seem to stand around doing nothing in particular until the building collapses and then they run away again.

    Afraid I can't forgive someone preferring this shambles to Rog on top form against a scenery chewing Steven Berkoff.

    For the record let me just clarify that Indy 4 and DAD aren't truly shocking like Transformers or anything with Vin Diesel but by they are an abomination when measured by the yardstick set by the other films in their respective series.

    I haven't seen it but it sounds like we'll have to add Die Hard V to that list now.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I really disliked ID IV, however, it had qualities that DAD was devoid of. For all the many failures of Crystal Skulls, it had a near flawless casting. It also took into account that Indie was getting old. And it had way less stupid, out of place scifi. I mean I didn't like the scifi in it, but it was still better used than in DAD.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I enjoy DAD for what it is entertainment and that applies for Indiana Jones 4 as well. And to counter the B&R movie comparision, have seen it and it for my young children much more enjoyable than the Nolan movies which they are too young for in my parental opinion.

    There have been so much worse movies than these two I find that these two will be watched at my house. Are we talking the recent works of mr Adam Sandler or Eddie Murphy we are talking really poor movies.
  • Got to go with DAD.
    It may be one of the worst Bonds but Indy IV just didn't work imo.
    Indy is too old and the inclusion of his son ruined any enjoyment for me.
    DAD wins, I haven't said that very often!!
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I watched Raiders the other day for first time in some years and thought it was great. Silly in places but "good silly" (I'd forgotten about the bit when he punches out the Nazi next to the sub). Maybe Spielberg should have just left it at that (although I too do enjoy Crusade).

    Also wasn't the Miami airport sequence in CR inspired by the land rover chase in Raiders or am I mistaken?

    There are bits of Indy 4 I quite like I admit. I thought the shot of him next to the mushroom cloud was good and some of the opening stuff in Area 51 was enjoyable
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    Crystal Skull is just a device to bring Indy into the consciousness of another generation, no doubt with plans to make a film series with Mutt in it.
    No, that wasn't in the cards, but for ME, it's a good LAST story of how Indy & Marion end up together.
    *snif*

    For me it's an appalling last story of how Indy & Marion get together. Karen Allens sassy, intelligent character from Raiders is reduced to an embarrassment; constantly getting captured (along with everyone else), uttering awful lines, making eyes at Indy and then having such a mastery of the laws of physics that she can drive a car off a cliff with sufficient precision to land in a tree that she has already calculated will perfectly bend to its weight and land them all safely in the river! If she's so smart how come she didn't notice the roar of 3 massive waterfalls ahead? But then I suppose she had already calculated that they would all survive 3 successive drops without a scratch.

    And of course all of this shite is rendered in lovely CGI not the real stunt work that Speilberg promised.

    F**king abysmal.

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Crystal Skull is just a device to bring Indy into the consciousness of another generation, no doubt with plans to make a film series with Mutt in it.
    No, that wasn't in the cards, but for ME, it's a good LAST story of how Indy & Marion end up together.
    *snif*

    For me it's an appalling last story of how Indy & Marion get together. Karen Allens sassy, intelligent character from Raiders is reduced to an embarrassment; constantly getting captured (along with everyone else), uttering awful lines, making eyes at Indy and then having such a mastery of the laws of physics that she can drive a car off a cliff with sufficient precision to land in a tree that she has already calculated will perfectly bend to its weight and land them all safely in the river! If she's so smart how come she didn't notice the roar of 3 massive waterfalls ahead? But then I suppose she had already calculated that they would all survive 3 successive drops without a scratch.

    And of course all of this shite is rendered in lovely CGI not the real stunt work that Speilberg promised.

    F**king abysmal.

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.

    I've just had a thought. Ray Winston in a Bond film?????

    He's English after all ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Burn detected
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote:

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.

    What are you drivelling on about? What is physics defying about SF? The fall off the bridge may be a long shot to survive but it's not repeated 3 times in succession and with 5 people all walking away.

    You may not be an SF fan but don't take the piss. Indy 4 not fit to lace it's boots.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Getafix a part of me would like it to continue in a direction you hate just because the entertainment value is just to much, you can't let it lie can you?

    Does your dislike for Skyfall have to leak into every thread?
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    If we're doing a worst in the series battle, why not throw in...

    Die Hard 5, Rocky V, Alien Ressurection, Jason X, Rambo 4, Batman and Robin, Bourne Legacy, etc.

    Out of that lot above I'd say Die Hard 5 takes it because Willis gave a good performance and the car chase was destructive fun. It was the terrible script, bad directing and the f***ing awful finale that ruined it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Out of all those I give it to The Bourne Legacy. Unlike most of the others (that I have seen) it isn't a massive train-wreck, just not something that lived up to the past films. It doesn't make it a garbage film that deserves eternal punishment, it was just an okay film (not abysmal or painful to watch) and rather ordinary compared to Identity, Supremacy and Ultimatum. In addition, the performances for the most part where good and some moments were shocking. Above all, I don't think Legacy deserves to be compared to some of these absolute travesties.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    If we're doing a worst in the series battle, why not throw in...

    Die Hard 5, Rocky V, Alien Ressurection, Jason X, Rambo 4, Batman and Robin, Bourne Legacy, etc.

    Out of that lot above I'd say Die Hard 5 takes it because Willis gave a good performance and the car chase was destructive fun. It was the terrible script, bad directing and the f***ing awful finale that ruined it.
    I have a twisted love of bad movies.
    I actually like Rocky 5, Rambo and Batman & Robin, not to mention (but I will) Escape From LA, Superman III (but not IV; I may be twisted, but I'm not, err... TERRIBLY twisted), Star Trek V, Robocop 3, Diamonds Are Forever, Indy 4, The Day After Tomorrow, X-3, Spider-man 3, Daredevil (Director's Cut only), Elektra, Flash Gordon, Cuthroat Island, The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Supergirl, ahhh, I'm finally running dry here....
    :))
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    If we're doing a worst in the series battle, why not throw in...

    Die Hard 5, Rocky V, Alien Ressurection, Jason X, Rambo 4, Batman and Robin, Bourne Legacy, etc.

    Out of that lot above I'd say Die Hard 5 takes it because Willis gave a good performance and the car chase was destructive fun. It was the terrible script, bad directing and the f***ing awful finale that ruined it.
    I have a twisted love of bad movies.
    I actually like Rocky 5, Rambo and Batman & Robin, not to mention (but I will) Escape From LA, Superman III (but not IV; I may be twisted, but I'm not, err... TERRIBLY twisted), Star Trek V, Robocop 3, Diamonds Are Forever, Indy 4, The Day After Tomorrow, X-3, Spider-man 3, Daredevil (Director's Cut only), Elektra, Flash Gordon, Cuthroat Island, The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Supergirl, ahhh, I'm finally running dry here....
    :))

    The way I figure it you're either an over-developed masochist or simply have low standards. Or maybe both.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    The way I figure it you're either an over-developed masochist or simply have low standards. Or maybe both.
    Among my actual favourite movies are Blade Runner, Serenity, The Living Daylights, Superman: The Movie, 2001, Ip Man, The Road Home, Indy 1, V For Vendetta and Metropolis (Fritz Lang), so does that redeem me just a little bit?
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Actually thinking about it now I agree, I think Legacy is the best out of that lot. I actually enjoyed that, unlike the others. I thought it was a pretty good spy movie even if it didn't live up to the standards set by the first three.

    @chrisisall When you say Rambo, do you mean in general or do you mean the 4th film? Because I think the first one is a fantastic movie all round and the next two were good popcorn action flicks (I really didn't like the 4th one).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    The way I figure it you're either an over-developed masochist or simply have low standards. Or maybe both.
    Among my actual favourite movies are Blade Runner, Serenity, The Living Daylights, Superman: The Movie, 2001, Ip Man, The Road Home, Indy 1, V For Vendetta and Metropolis (Fritz Lang), so does that redeem me just a little bit?

    Who am I to judge that?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    @chrisisall When you say Rambo, do you mean in general or do you mean the 4th film?
    The 4th, although the first is THE best.
    Who am I to judge that?
    Well, you judged me once, can you not do it twice?
    Or do you Dredd redressing an issue?
    ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    @chrisisall When you say Rambo, do you mean in general or do you mean the 4th film?
    The 4th, although the first is THE best.
    Who am I to judge that?
    Well, you judged me once, can you not do it twice?
    Or do you Dredd redressing an issue?
    ;)
    I judge you to mock you.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I judge you to mock you.

    Colour me mocked. :D
  • Raiders is the equivalent of Moonraker

    Temple of Doom - The Spy Who Loved Me

    Last Crusade - For Your Eyes Only

    Crystal Skull - Quantum of Solace

    I only saw the last Jones releases once but it was enough. Ford is simply too old to play the part now but it's how I feel about a lot of actors with still ongoing franchises (Willis - Die Hard) for example. Is it better than Die Another Day ? Although Brosnan's last hurrah was poor, it was still a Bond release, so I did take a certain amount of pleasure from it - albeit not much
  • Posts: 3,327
    Raiders is the equivalent of Moonraker

    Temple of Doom - The Spy Who Loved Me

    Last Crusade - For Your Eyes Only

    Crystal Skull - Quantum of Solace

    I only saw the last Jones releases once but it was enough. Ford is simply too old to play the part now but it's how I feel about a lot of actors with still ongoing franchises (Willis - Die Hard) for example. Is it better than Die Another Day ? Although Brosnan's last hurrah was poor, it was still a Bond release, so I did take a certain amount of pleasure from it - albeit not much

    Don't agree with any of that. I'd say more like this -

    Raiders - GF (blueprint perfection)

    Temple of Doom - QoS (much darker in tone)

    Last Crusade - TSWLM (following the original blueprint with more outlandish stunts and gags)

    Crystall Skull - DAD (what else)!

  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.

    What are you drivelling on about? What is physics defying about SF? The fall off the bridge may be a long shot to survive but it's not repeated 3 times in succession and with 5 people all walking away.

    You may not be an SF fan but don't take the piss. Indy 4 not fit to lace it's boots.

    I'm guessing from your reply that you know precisely what I'm drivelling on about.

    Haven't seen Indy4 but your description of the silly escape immediately made me think of SF. You might not have had a problem with it but plenty of others had to do a Roger-esque double take at that point to take in what had just happened. Apparently Mendes says on his DVD commentary the film has a major narrative leap that he was worried about. I'm not sure whether he means the fall or the move to Scotland, but both are clunky bits of story-telling - you can hear P+W grinding through the screenplay gears to move the story along.

    Even @BAIN's mum apparently found Bond's survival after the fall inexplicable.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    Getafix wrote:

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.

    What are you drivelling on about? What is physics defying about SF? The fall off the bridge may be a long shot to survive but it's not repeated 3 times in succession and with 5 people all walking away.

    You may not be an SF fan but don't take the piss. Indy 4 not fit to lace it's boots.

    I'm guessing from your reply that you know precisely what I'm drivelling on about.

    Even @BAIN's mum apparently found Bond's survival after the fall inexplicable.

    Well yeah...but then again she's not a big Bond fan. She just watched it because of a bit of "persuasion" from her son :p

    She did like GE when she saw it with me when I was young though and she preferrs Pierce over Dan who she thinks looks too much like Jeremy Kyle :))
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Getafix wrote:

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.

    What are you drivelling on about? What is physics defying about SF? The fall off the bridge may be a long shot to survive but it's not repeated 3 times in succession and with 5 people all walking away.

    You may not be an SF fan but don't take the piss. Indy 4 not fit to lace it's boots.

    I'm guessing from your reply that you know precisely what I'm drivelling on about.

    Even @BAIN's mum apparently found Bond's survival after the fall inexplicable.

    Well yeah...but then again she's not a big Bond fan. She just watched it because of a bit of "persuasion" from her son :p

    She did like GE when she saw it with me when I was young though and she preferrs Pierce over Dan who she thinks looks too much like Jeremy Kyle :))

    That's my point @BAIN. Your mum didn't have an axe to grind, she watched the film and found that part unbelievable or poorly explained. Some people are so desperate to defend SF that they are blind to its basic flaws.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Getafix wrote:

    I haven't seen it but it sounds a bit like SF.Death defying CGI 'stunts' and implausible physics-denying escapes. Come to think of it, SF is probably the Bond film Spielberg would make were he given the job today.Actually, that's a bit unfair to Spielberg. On the evidence of Munich and Minority Report he'd probably still do something pretty good.

    What are you drivelling on about? What is physics defying about SF? The fall off the bridge may be a long shot to survive but it's not repeated 3 times in succession and with 5 people all walking away.

    You may not be an SF fan but don't take the piss. Indy 4 not fit to lace it's boots.

    I'm guessing from your reply that you know precisely what I'm drivelling on about.

    Even @BAIN's mum apparently found Bond's survival after the fall inexplicable.

    Well yeah...but then again she's not a big Bond fan. She just watched it because of a bit of "persuasion" from her son :p

    She did like GE when she saw it with me when I was young though and she preferrs Pierce over Dan who she thinks looks too much like Jeremy Kyle :))

    That's my point @BAIN. Your mum didn't have an axe to grind, she watched the film and found that part unbelievable or poorly explained. Some people are so desperate to defend SF that they are blind to its basic flaws.

    I will agree that parts of the film do maybe require us to suspend our disbelief a little too much, BUT looking at the film as a whole again the other day, there are so many good scenes featuring heavy-weight actors giving good, engaging performances that I can forgive it.

    -First meeting with M and Malorie
    -Bond and M in underground Mi6
    -Bond and M on Scottish Moore's
    -M reading Tennyson
    -Bond and Q
    -Silvia and Bond
    -Silvia's "target practice"
    -Bond and Servine
    -M's death
    -Bond with Moneypenny on the roof at the end

    You get my point
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Yeah, I don't generally have a problem suspending my belief but that's because most films make the gesture of explaining things like how the main character survives being shot, falling from great height and drowning. That's not a minor plot point that you can just ignore - it's a 'whoa, what the hell just happened there' yawning chasm in how the story is told. I don't just have a problem with it because it's bad film making, I find it annoying because it totally took me out of the moment and instead of enjoying the ride I'm suddenly thinking about P+W and how bad they are and how Mendes could ever have allowed that in his own film.

    What's most depressing is the number of fans who are saying, 'oh, but it's only a Bond film' as if bad writing and direction is what you should expect when you watch a Bond movie. That's an insult to Maibaum and great scripts he crafted.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Thats where, thinking about it, I agree. They could have just had a simple line like "you're lucky to be alive after a fall like that". It would have made it a little more believable.

    In the Dr No book an reason is given how Bond survives a poisoned tipped blade at the end of FRWL. Its completely proposterous as, in real life, there is NO cure to that kind of poison but Fleming did at least try and give a proper explination.
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