The Man With The Golden Gun-Some Thoughts

2

Comments

  • Posts: 2,483
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Bentley wrote:
    IN my humble opinion, out of the 12 full length Bond novels only 5 achieved true greatness namely: FRWL, OHMSS, TB, GF, DN.

    How can you *possibly* leave MR out of that particular list?? :-??

    Indeed. MR is my personal favourite of them all.

    Hear, hear.

    Some rare Bondian literary taste from you Draggers ;)

    Add me to that list, MR for me is certainly one of Fleming's best and I'd easily rate it among his top 5 Bond novels.

  • Posts: 2,341
    I was not impressed with TMWTGG book. I read it so many years ago, I think I was like in Jr. High School then...
    I am partial to YOLT, FRWL, and DN. I read all these while I was in college and really enjoyed them. Even GF.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    @OHMSS69 - Goldfinger is a great read, it a little silly in places. You should read TMWTGG again just for perspective if you have not read it since high school.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I will happily give you some thoughts about it.

    True, the antagonists in TSWLM were also henchmen, but the novel was a very atypical Bond novel, in fact much closer to classic hardboiled fiction.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I will happily give you some thoughts about it.

    True, the antagonists in TSWLM were also henchmen, but the novel was a very atypical Bond novel, in fact much closer to classic hardboiled fiction.

    Well, that's true on both counts. Please send me a PM of your thoughts on the Scaramanga thing or you can email me at [email protected] and we can take things from there.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.

    Right then is it Red Grant, Nick Nack,Scaramanga? Anyone else?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.

    Right then is it Red Grant, Nick Nack,Scaramanga? Anyone else?

    You've obviously NEVER read the books, have you really?
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.

    Right then is it Red Grant, Nick Nack,Scaramanga? Anyone else?

    You've obviously NEVER read the books, have you really?

    No only Dr. No and currently reading Casino Royale he's been captured.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.

    Right then is it Red Grant, Nick Nack,Scaramanga? Anyone else?

    You've obviously NEVER read the books, have you really?

    No only Dr. No and currently reading Casino Royale he's been captured.

    Well, at least that's a start. No Nick Nick in the TMWTGG novel, though there is a character called Nick Nicholson. Perhaps that's where the inspiration for the film henchman's name came from? Could be.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    Does this post need me to get the 'BOOK' out? :)

    I would rather have thought so, yes.

    Right then is it Red Grant, Nick Nack,Scaramanga? Anyone else?

    You've obviously NEVER read the books, have you really?

    No only Dr. No and currently reading Casino Royale he's been captured.

    Well, at least that's a start. No Nick Nick in the TMWTGG novel, though there is a character called Nick Nicholson. Perhaps that's where the inspiration for the film henchman's name came from? Could be.

    Well as we are debating about the film ones or the book ones?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    It seems to be a strange mixture of both, though it started out as book version only.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Dragonpol wrote:
    It seems to be a strange mixture of both, though it started out as book version only.
    Well that's enough from me about this debate my book knowledge of every film up to CR is in that book only.

  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Just read the book @hullcityfan!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Or just pay attention to where you are posting.

    I think the term 'Literary 007' next to the thread title alerted most people to what is being discussed.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Or just pay attention to where you are posting.

    I think the term 'Literary 007' next to the thread title alerted most people to what is being discussed.

    Indeed. Saves us all from much confusion and we don't want that.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    007InVT wrote:
    I'd definitely put Scaramanga up there as Fleming's nastiest villain. What a piece of work!

    Most of Fleming's villains are nasty in the extreme. Julius No, Red Grant, Mr. Big, Sluggsy Morant, and Hugo Drax are all repulsive, but yes, Scaramanga ranks right up there with 'em.

    I like the idea of how Scaramanga stands out as a villain as he was a henchman-type who became the main villain - a Fleming experiment noted by one of our members here - can't remember who exactly, but it is so very true.

    I wonder if Red Grant may also qualify as a henchman who was also the main villain?

    He could, although I think he shares it with Rosa Klebb. Scaramanga is very unique: he is a gun for hire, but the main antagonist of the novel. Something that was never truly done in the movies, not even, ironically enough, in TMWTGG, where Scaramanga kills his employer.

    I agree here on Red Grant. I'df like to author an article on the Scaramanga-as-a-henchman-yet-he's-also-the-main-villain angle. Would you care to co-author with me at all, or give me your thoughts, @Ludovico?

    Plus, I suppose that Sol 'Horror' Horowitz and Sluggsy Morant were the main villains in TSWLM in place of the latent villain, Mr Sanguinetta.

    I really dont get this whole debate.

    How is Scaramanga the henchman? Hes the main villain isnt he? Just because hes a bit handy does not make him the henchman.

    You could say that hes working for the KGB but if you say that you have to say that Mr Big and Goldfinger are henchmen too.

    Red Grant is certainly a henchman being subordinate to both Klebb and Grubozaboyzhikov (I know the spellings wayward there).

    I would define henchman as someone who is secondary to the main villain. As no one is secondary to Scaramanga he is therefore the main villain isnt he?

    You are confusing role in the plot and hierarchy in an organisation (although Scaramanga is independent from it). Yes, Scaramanga is the main villain in TMWTGG, just like Figaro is the main character and hero in The Barber of Seville. Yet, Figaro is the help of who would otherwise be the protagonist (that was one of Beaumarchais' great inventions, turning one who was a supporting role into the main character). Same thing with Scaramanga in TMWTGG. Bond is after him, not because Scaramanga has a great scheme like Blofeld, or Goldfinger, or Drax, but because he killed many British agents and is probably going to kill many, many more if he is not stopped. As a function Scaramanga is just a gun for hire, a henchman. In the plot, he is at the center of it. And this is one of the novel's originalities. It is so simple, so brilliant and so inventive.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Ludovico wrote:
    It is so simple, so brilliant and so inventive.
    Very Hitchcock.
    =D>
  • Posts: 4,622
    Scaramanga is more than just a henchman though. He's running schemes, owns property etc. He's a player in his own right. But yes his stock in trade is gun-for-hire. He's a killer that Mi6 needs to have eliminated.
    Good book. Quite readable. If Fleming had continued it might have served as an interlude entry, kind of like Spy Who Loved Me, pending another meatier offering.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Fleming could always come up with some interesting back stories for his villains.
    Dr No was the Eurasian son of a Chinese girl and a German missionary.

    Red Grant being the product of a "quickie" between a German weight lifter and an Irish tart...

    Goldfinger not actually British but a refugee from Riga and probably Jewish...

    Anyone else notice how in literary Bond, the English were never the bad guys? Villains were Spanish, German, Russian, American, Blacks etc. I always found this tidbit interesting.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Fleming did like to connect his villains with Nazi Germany too. Understandable considering his own experience in the war with Germany.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Anyone else notice how in literary Bond, the English were never the bad guys? Villains were Spanish, German, Russian, American, Blacks etc. I always found this tidbit interesting.

    Hardly a surprise really when one considers a) Bonds job is to stop people who want to destroy England and b) the inherent xenophobia and sneering superiority of the English upper classes at the time.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Fleming could always come up with some interesting back stories for his villains.
    Dr No was the Eurasian son of a Chinese girl and a German missionary.

    Red Grant being the product of a "quickie" between a German weight lifter and an Irish tart...

    Goldfinger not actually British but a refugee from Riga and probably Jewish...

    Anyone else notice how in literary Bond, the English were never the bad guys? Villains were Spanish, German, Russian, American, Blacks etc. I always found this tidbit interesting.

    Yes, Kingsley Amis noted this fact in his The James Bond Dossier almost fifty years ago. It goes back much further than Fleming, though. Goldfinger was British, but of Jewish descent, so therefore an immigrant foreigner.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Fleming could always come up with some interesting back stories for his villains.
    Dr No was the Eurasian son of a Chinese girl and a German missionary.

    Red Grant being the product of a "quickie" between a German weight lifter and an Irish tart...

    Goldfinger not actually British but a refugee from Riga and probably Jewish...

    Anyone else notice how in literary Bond, the English were never the bad guys? Villains were Spanish, German, Russian, American, Blacks etc. I always found this tidbit interesting.

    Yes, Kingsley Amis noted this fact in his The James Bond Dossier almost fifty years ago. It goes back much further than Fleming, though. Goldfinger was British, but of Jewish descent, so therefore an immigrant foreigner.

    But lets be fair - Germans and Russians do make the best baddies don't they!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Fleming could always come up with some interesting back stories for his villains.
    Dr No was the Eurasian son of a Chinese girl and a German missionary.

    Red Grant being the product of a "quickie" between a German weight lifter and an Irish tart...

    Goldfinger not actually British but a refugee from Riga and probably Jewish...

    Anyone else notice how in literary Bond, the English were never the bad guys? Villains were Spanish, German, Russian, American, Blacks etc. I always found this tidbit interesting.

    Yes, Kingsley Amis noted this fact in his The James Bond Dossier almost fifty years ago. It goes back much further than Fleming, though. Goldfinger was British, but of Jewish descent, so therefore an immigrant foreigner.

    But lets be fair - Germans and Russians do make the best baddies don't they!

    Well, yes. The Russian spy novels have the British and Americans as villains so it all fits, doesn't it really. I imagine its the same with German spy thrillers of the pre-war and inter-war periods. It would be interesting to read a study on all of this. The foreigner as 'other' and all that jazz. It's as old as time itself, I'd imagine.
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