Whose idea was it to cast Brosnan as Bond?

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  • edited August 2012 Posts: 3,327
    002 wrote:


    If you think that's funny, I'd love to know your views on the Brosnan films.....

    On second thoughts, forget it. I can already guess what your taste will be.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited August 2012 Posts: 13,355
    @jetsetwilly, you are a legend.
    The problem with Brosnan for me, is that he forces the charm. There comes a point where it goes from being charming to grating on my nerves. With Brosnan, he goes straight to the grating.

    I find many parallels between Brosnan and the Tenth Doctor in that regard.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I agree that Brosnan's movies had their fair share of drama, and TWINE was IMO buried in it, but why give CR a free pass? No offense, but comparing CR to TND for instance, I'd say the latter is not the one filled with soap opera drama. At times during the last half hour of CR I'm wondering whether I'm watching Bond or "The Notebook" or something. And OHMSS & QOS have pieces of drama too, IMO.
    The drama was done correctly in CR, in that it pretty much followed the Fleming novel as close as possible (minus the Venice gunfight scene).

    The soap opera drama found in Brozza's flicks (most evident in TWINE) is very bad, highly unrealistic, cheesy and naff. I don't think this is really the case with the drama moments in Craig's two films, partly because Craig is a far better actor than Brozza, and also the writing team probably fine tuned and learned their mistakes during the 90's with the crap they wrote.

  • Posts: 3,327
    Samuel001 wrote:
    @jetsetwilly, you are a legend.

    Cheers Samuel.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Samuel001 wrote:
    The problem with Brosnan for me, is that he forces the charm. There comes a point where it goes from being charming to grating on my nerves. With Brosnan, he goes straight to the grating.

    I find many parallels between Brosnan and the Tenth Doctor in that regard.

    I've often thought about trying to draw parallels between the Bonds & Doctors. Some are easier than others.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Samuel001 wrote:
    @jetsetwilly, you are a legend.

    Cheers Samuel.

    Just stick with us for a bit, eh? You add a lot and not just the truth about Brosnan. ;)
    Samuel001 wrote:
    The problem with Brosnan for me, is that he forces the charm. There comes a point where it goes from being charming to grating on my nerves. With Brosnan, he goes straight to the grating.

    I find many parallels between Brosnan and the Tenth Doctor in that regard.

    I've often thought about trying to draw parallels between the Bonds & Doctors. Some are easier than others.

    Very true but sadly the problems with Brosnan and Tennant are too glaring to ignore. ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Very true but sadly the problems with Brosnan and Tennant are too glaring to ignore. ;)

    I also think parallels could be found between Brosnan & Davison. Both are popular, but I don't see what each brough that had not been done by those that went before. Away from Brosnan, an obvious one for me would be Dalton & McCoy. Both started and officially ended their run* at the same time and they had the same intentions for the characters of Bond and The Doctor.


    * Excluding McCoy's cameo in the TVM,
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Good catches, Major. I bet there are many more though someone has no doubt done this before us.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    002 wrote:


    If you think that's funny, I'd love to know your views on the Brosnan films.....

    On second thoughts, forget it. I can already guess what your taste will be.

    Yeah i pefer Brosnans films because they are pure fun escapism and Brosnan is one of the sexiest bonds (like the 8th doctor- contains all the best elements of the previous bonds)
  • Posts: 3,327
    002 wrote:
    Yeah i pefer Brosnans films because they are pure fun escapism and Brosnan is one of the sexiest bonds (like the 8th doctor- contains all the best elements of the previous bonds)


  • 002002
    edited August 2012 Posts: 581
    002 wrote:
    Yeah i pefer Brosnans films because they are pure fun escapism and Brosnan is one of the sexiest bonds (like the 8th doctor- contains all the best elements of the previous bonds)



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  • Posts: 11,189
    While I have problems with Brosnan's films most of them I'd happily rewatch. Saw GE was on ITV the other night and couldn't resist watching at least some of it.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    in that it pretty much followed the Fleming novel as close as possible (minus the Venice gunfight scene).

    Sorry but I think that's BS. People always say CR was really close to the book but I don't think it was. It followed the basic outline of it, but there were a ton of changes, Vesper's death is just one of them. EG- Double 0 kills are different, there's all the scenes in Madagascar and Miami for a start, then you have the fact that they changed it to poker, etc. Most of these changes aren't bad (I love the Madagascar and Miami scenes), it just suprises me when people say CR was really close to the book.

    I saw the film first and when people said it was close to the book I decided to read it, and I was suprised how much from the film was missing. Ok, I wasn't expecting Bond to free run in the book or stop an airport bomb, but I was still suprised how much they changed for the film.
    Dalton's performance is up there with better than Craig, in terms of a tough, no-nonsense, realistic approach

    Fixed ;)

    Seriously though, although I agree Brosnan was a step down after Dalton, I have to disagree with your post. I think it'd be pretty much impossible to match Dalton so I can't blame him there. Apart from DAD (and even that has lots good things which people overlook), I really enjoy Brosnans films and I think he did a great job.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    in that it pretty much followed the Fleming novel as close as possible (minus the Venice gunfight scene).

    Sorry but I think that's BS. People always say CR was really close to the book but I don't think it was. It followed the basic outline of it, but there were a ton of changes, Vesper's death is just one of them. EG- Double 0 kills are different, there's all the scenes in Madagascar and Miami for a start, then you have the fact that they changed it to poker, etc. Most of these changes aren't bad (I love the Madagascar and Miami scenes), it just suprises me when people say CR was really close to the book.

    I saw the film first and when people said it was close to the book I decided to read it, and I was suprised how much from the film was missing. Ok, I wasn't expecting Bond to free run in the book or stop an airport bomb, but I was still suprised how much they changed for the film.
    Dalton's performance is up there with better than Craig, in terms of a tough, no-nonsense, realistic approach

    Fixed ;)

    Seriously though, although I agree Brosnan was a step down after Dalton, I have to disagree with your post. I think it'd be pretty much impossible to match Dalton so I can't blame him there. Apart from DAD (and even that has lots good things which people overlook), I really enjoy Brosnans films and I think he did a great job.

    I agree with almost everything you've said. I had read CR before the film came out, but I still had that same feeling. The basic outline is the same, but most things have been changed.

    Dalton and Broz are tied for second on my actors list, and Craig is not far behind, but as of now, he's still behind.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Sorry but I think that's BS. People always say CR was really close to the book but I don't think it was.
    Sorry but I think it was, the latter half of the film, not the first half. Most of what happens in the book happens in the film, while naturally modernised as a plot, and certain scenes changed to work better visually (the poisoning scene for instance).

    Bond plays Le Chiffre at cards to make him lose his money (check)
    Bond almost gets killed during the game (check)
    Bond gets cleaned out, then is rescued by Felix Leiter with more funds (check)
    Bond eventually beats Le Chiffre (check)
    Bond goes for a romantic meal with Vesper (check)
    Vesper gets a message then disappears (check)
    Bond runs after her, and a car chase ensues (check)
    Bond crashes his car and passes out (check)
    Bond gets his balls whacked in a torture session by Le Chiffre (check)
    Le Chiffre is shot in the head by the organisation he owes money to (check)
    Bond recovers in hospital (check)
    Bond and Vesper fall in love during his recovery (check)
    Vesper betrays him and commits suicide (check)
    Bond utters the now infamous line `the bitch is dead!'

    That sequence of events pretty much covers the whole novel, and the entire second half of the film.

    `Nuff said!

  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Bond plays Le Chiffre at cards to make him lose his money (check)
    Bond almost gets killed during the game (check)
    Bond gets cleaned out, then is rescued by Felix Leiter with more funds (check)
    Bond eventually beats Le Chiffre (check)
    Bond goes for a romantic meal with Vesper (check)
    Vesper gets a message then disappears (check)
    Bond runs after her, and a car chase ensues (check)
    Bond crashes his car and passes out (check)
    Bond gets his balls whacked in a torture session by Le Chiffre (check)
    Le Chiffre is shot in the head by the organisation he owes money to (check)
    Bond recovers in hospital (check)
    Bond and Vesper fall in love during his recovery (check)
    Vesper betrays him and commits suicide (check)
    Bond utters the now infamous line `the bitch is dead!'

    That sequence of events pretty much covers the whole novel, and the entire second half of the film.

    `Nuff said!

    Like I said, basic outline, there's still plenty of changes. We've already agreed that the first half was really different, let's look at your points about the 2nd half.

    1- It was Baccarat in the book, and played somewhere in France I think, not Montenegro.
    2- He wasn't almost killed by poison and terrorists from Uganda in the book.
    3- True
    4- True
    5- True
    6- True
    7- In the book though, wasn't it spikes or something that crashed the car instead of Vesper being on the road?
    8- True
    9- Different torture, he used a carpet beater in the book, in a big house not a crappy, run down boat
    10- True, but different organisation (but this change was needed, they can't just use Russians as bad guys)
    11- True
    12- True
    13- But in a much more different way, and in a different location.
    14- True

    So when you take these changes, the ones I mentioned before and the first half, it's not that close to the book. Like I said, it follows the basic outline of it (at least in the 2nd half), but still, plenty of differences.

  • Posts: 5,745
    Bond plays Le Chiffre at cards to make him lose his money (check)
    Bond almost gets killed during the game (check)
    Bond gets cleaned out, then is rescued by Felix Leiter with more funds (check)
    Bond eventually beats Le Chiffre (check)
    Bond goes for a romantic meal with Vesper (check)
    Vesper gets a message then disappears (check)
    Bond runs after her, and a car chase ensues (check)
    Bond crashes his car and passes out (check)
    Bond gets his balls whacked in a torture session by Le Chiffre (check)
    Le Chiffre is shot in the head by the organisation he owes money to (check)
    Bond recovers in hospital (check)
    Bond and Vesper fall in love during his recovery (check)
    Vesper betrays him and commits suicide (check)
    Bond utters the now infamous line `the bitch is dead!'

    That sequence of events pretty much covers the whole novel, and the entire second half of the film.

    `Nuff said!

    Like I said, basic outline, there's still plenty of changes. We've already agreed that the first half was really different, let's look at your points about the 2nd half.

    1- It was Baccarat in the book, and played somewhere in France I think, not Montenegro.
    2- He wasn't almost killed by poison and terrorists from Uganda in the book.
    3- True
    4- True
    5- True
    6- True
    7- In the book though, wasn't it spikes or something that crashed the car instead of Vesper being on the road?
    8- True
    9- Different torture, he used a carpet beater in the book, in a big house not a crappy, run down boat
    10- True, but different organisation (but this change was needed, they can't just use Russians as bad guys)
    11- True
    12- True
    13- But in a much more different way, and in a different location.
    14- True

    So when you take these changes, the ones I mentioned before and the first half, it's not that close to the book. Like I said, it follows the basic outline of it (at least in the 2nd half), but still, plenty of differences.

    It's extremely close to the book. The book was like the outline of a paper. The paper will have more fleshed out ideas than the outline!

    I personally think it would have been rather boring if they followed the book closer. There would have been less atmosphere.
  • I agree it would've been boring if they followed the book closely, and for the record I prefer the film. I did say they followed the basic outline but when you look at all those changes, I don't think you can say it's extremely close to the book.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2012 Posts: 28,694
    Obviously CR was changed in parts. The novel was published in 1953 for crying out loud. CR kept all the crucial parts from the book, added them, and also did some things better in the book that they threw in themselves.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 5,745
    Obviously CR was changed in parts. The novel was published in 1953 for crying out loud. CR kept all the crucial parts from the book, added them, and also did some things better in the book that they threw in themselves.

    Precisely. I think Vesper in the road was better than a spike strip. More 'dramatic'.
  • Posts: 7,653
    STill I missed the bomb-attempt, Matthis was an ally and not a traitor (to this day I am puzzled why they did that and in QoS there was nothing the matter after all) Vesper was i all the time. And the Bond from the book wasn't that motivated anymore in his job. Got the initails of SMERSH carved into his hand so that he would be recognized later. And le CHiffre stole from Soviets and got punished by their much feared service SMERSH for failing to replenish the dosh. I found the Quantum organisation a wee bit weak after two movies, they in essence are not worthy enough to stand in the shadows of the EON badie SPECTRE. The ending of CR essentialy failed for me in the sinking house sequence were the so-called suicide gets overshadowed by the overkill of action and CGI. And why get a decent enough actor if you are not going to use his talents.
    C R was a bit of a bloathed movie for my taste.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Mathis was ALWAYS an ally. Did we watch the same film? Obviously Soviet/SMERSH plotlines in the modern version of CR wouldn't work, so Quantum was employed to fill the gap there. They kept most of the crucial things from the novel, did some great new things to give it a fresh life, and like I said, did some things much better than the short novel really could have.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Obviously CR was changed in parts. The novel was published in 1953 for crying out loud. CR kept all the crucial parts from the book, added them, and also did some things better in the book that they threw in themselves.

    Precisely. I think Vesper in the road was better than a spike strip. More 'dramatic'.

    I'm not saying these changes aren't good, and I know most of them were needed, I'm just saying, since there's that many changes, I don't think it's really as close to the book as everyone makes out.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Obviously CR was changed in parts. The novel was published in 1953 for crying out loud. CR kept all the crucial parts from the book, added them, and also did some things better in the book that they threw in themselves.

    Precisely. I think Vesper in the road was better than a spike strip. More 'dramatic'.

    I'm not saying these changes aren't good, and I know most of them were needed, I'm just saying, since there's that many changes, I don't think it's really as close to the book as everyone makes out.
    It is close to the book because it still has the main/important events happening, just modernized. You can't do a 50s novel in 2006 text to film. Cultures, habits, and belief systems have changed.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I'm not familiar with the books but it strikes me CR was closer to the novel than most of the other films that used book titles.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Getafix wrote:
    I'm not familiar with the books but it strikes me CR was closer to the novel than most of the other films that used book titles.

    I think most of the 60s films were pretty close. OHMSS is closest the book I think, I've read CR, MR GF, TB and OHMSS.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 11,425
    I have not read the books but I think you can usually tell when IF is the source material - it brings a touch of class.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Dr. No is pretty much on the nose, too. Very faithful, minus a couple of changes or cuts.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Am I right in thinking the bit in Prague from TLD is I.F. ?
  • Posts: 7,653
    Getafix wrote:
    I'm not familiar with the books but it strikes me CR was closer to the novel than most of the other films that used book titles.

    Dr No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS were all closer to the books than CR has managed. But then when they were filmed the books were far closer to the time they were written in. GF was story-wise actually improved upon (making the gold radio-active instead of stealing it), I am sure even Fleming would agree with that.

    And Brady, if you remember CR the movie were they dragged Mathis away because he was apperantly a traitor according to 007. So far your ally theory in that movie, and of course he was an ally I am just not sure what the idea was from the writers of the script. This was one stupid decision.

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