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Jason Bourne (2002 - present)

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I too found Legacy enjoyable. Sadly I think there's not much life in the Bourne series.
    He is a very two deminsional character. Bourne was exciting and new at the start but he's
    now part of the action movie establishment, we all know what to expect, so it's just a
    money making exercise now.
    Shakey camera work was new once, but now everyone's at it. The fights are pretty much the same now as any fight sequence. Although it's a great way for aging actors to get work. As CIA heads of departments. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I personally think there's lots of life in the Bourne franchise, if they play it right. They hinted at where they could take it at the end of the most recent installment and I for one certainly hope they come back again with something fresh and innovative. MI has reinvented itself several times and I have every confidence (based on Jason Bourne) that Damon and Greengrass can do it as well, if they want to.

    As I said, this film was to get us all back into that world after the long break. They will see how it's received, and go from there if they want to do more.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Chriscoop wrote: »
    It does seem to be getting some bad reviews, I'm not sure what people would expect from a Bourne film?
    I enjoyed legacy and would love to see a sequel of that.
    Join me in to that!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    A sequel to Legacy? I'd watch it because it has the Bourne stamp, but I believe it's a distinct case of an answer to a question that hasn't really been asked.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The only time I'll watch a real Jason Bourne film is when they start writing in real spy stories in Ludlum's vein than the constant repeat of "CIA vs Bourne" scenario with whoever becoming the head of CIA has to die in the end of the film... It's boring.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I have read they hadly use any of the actual Ludlum stories.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    There's lots of material to use from the books if they choose to going forward, and they could make it very interesting too.

    I was really excited to read about the Janson Directive adaptation, but not so impressed with the reported casting of The Rock (aka Dwayne Johnson).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited July 2016 Posts: 40,978
    Saw it yesterday and loved it. Only way you'll go into this and be shocked or disappointed is if you didn't love the first three. The second act dragged and it may have been missing in the brutal fist fight department, but the finale was amazing, the film delivered just how you'd expect a 'Bourne' movie to, and the action set pieces were handled leagues better than anything we got in SF and SP.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw it yesterday and loved it. Only way you'll go into this and be shocked or disappointed is if you didn't love the first three. The second act dragged and it may have been missing in the brutal fist fight department, but the finale was amazing, the film delivered just how you'd expect a 'Bourne' movie to, and the action set pieces were handled leagues better than anything we got in SF and SP.

    Agreed on all counts. I love both SF and SP, but that car chase blew any action in those films out of proportion. I can't wait to see it again.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    The Bond franchise hasn't made me grin like an idiot like I did during that car chase since QoS. Loved it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I have read they hadly use any of the actual Ludlum stories.

    Very little. And any of the stuff that they did use wasn't used in the same way.

    I was hoping that they were going to bring Vincent Cassel into it as Carlos The Jackal, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I loved that Cassel was relatively fleshed out in this, and wasn't wasted as some generic hitman/bad guy. I do wish the script touched up a bit more on the technical side of things, as some of the technical jargon looked/sounded like it was ripped from a 'CSI' spin-off, unless the CIA actually names their secret files 'BLACK OPS' and has flash drives labelled as 'ENCRYPTED.'
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I have read they hadly use any of the actual Ludlum stories.
    In the books Bourne has reassumed his proper name is a teacher, married with kids and owns a carribean holiday resort that his brother in law runs for him and conklin is his friend!!!

  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    bondjames wrote: »
    A sequel to Legacy? I'd watch it because it has the Bourne stamp, but I believe it's a distinct case of an answer to a question that hasn't really been asked.

    I thought renner did a great job, he's very watchable and with Mrs Craig in it I thought it was a hugely enjoyable film. A sequel would run parallel to any Jason Bourne story.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Out of interest, are the Books any good, would you recommend them ? :)
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    I would, very different from the film, apart from names you won't find much of a similarity.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Must give them a try. Thanks :)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    And in the original trilogy, Alexander Conklin is a good guy. :)
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    I liked the film. Almost non-stop adrenaline rush and two of the most impressive and longest action set pieces I've seen at the cinema. After those ridiculous articles about Damon being paid $1 million per word of spoken dialogue, I actually began counting his words and he runs through the first 25 words in about one scene with Nicky, so that claim was bollocks. Now we all know how Greengrass is the master of shakycam, but with how much close-up screentime Tommy Lee Jones's face gets... it made for some interesting cinema. Luckily there is the lovely Alicia Vikander with her dodgy accent to balance things out. And a very gruff-looking Cassel who from his first to last scene did not look pleased to be in the film, but that's the character I suppose.

    My Bourne ranking:

    1. Identity - 9/10 - A genre classic
    2. Supremacy - 8/10 - Best of the Greengrass bunch, great sequel to Identity
    3. Jason Bourne - 7.5/10 - Action alone puts it in the top-3
    4. Ultimatum - 7.5/10 - Somehow I find it less entertaining than the first two
    5. Legacy - 6.5/10 - Still watchable, but weakest script
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Jason Bourne dominated the worldwide box office this weekend with an estimated $110.1 million. The film opened with an estimated $60 million from 4,026 North American theaters, an average of $14,903 per theater. This marks the second-biggest opening for the “Bourne” series in North America, as well as Matt Damon’s second highest-grossing opening of his career, both behind Damon’s previous Bourne installment, The Bourne Ultimatum, in 2007.


    http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/751569-jason-bourne-hits-110-million-globally#zYCXSvztjvCBaPWy.99
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    @doubleoego Out of curiosity, what did you think of the film? I know you're a Bourne fan like myself.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    My plan was to see it on opening day but my attention was diverted to other affairs. Fortunately I'm watching it tonight at long last.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    doubleoego wrote: »
    My plan was to see it on opening day but my attention was diverted to other affairs. Fortunately I'm watching it tonight at long last.
    You'll enjoy it. It's a gem.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally think there's lots of life in the Bourne franchise, if they play it right. They hinted at where they could take it at the end of the most recent installment and I for one certainly hope they come back again with something fresh and innovative. MI has reinvented itself several times and I have every confidence (based on Jason Bourne) that Damon and Greengrass can do it as well, if they want to.

    As I said, this film was to get us all back into that world after the long break. They will see how it's received, and go from there if they want to do more.

    But how really?? Bond films, and even Mission Impossible films, are so much more diverse. Character-wise as well as story-wise.

    What worked with the first Bourne films was the re-invented action stunts. But......if you don't try to make the characters more diverse and more complex, if you don't write more lines or more interesting dialogues, if you don't let Mr Bourne utter a joke or at least laugh or cry at times....then Jason Bourne becomes a dying action romp and nothing more. I saw 'Jason Bourne' tonight. Nice action yes. But I left the cinema thinking more about what Donald Trump said today or how PSV won the Johan Cruijf Dish. That tells you enough I think. So IMO it completely deserves a 56% RottenTomatoes rating. And the franchise is in danger now.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2016 Posts: 40,978
    @Gustav_Graves, if you're looking for a movie that's going to make you laugh, cry, or ponder all of life's mysteries, you've come to the wrong franchise. They're action/spy thrillers, nothing more. It seems like there's been this driving force over the last few years to turn everything into something that it isn't: more backstory, more prequels, more character development, more emotion, more insight. Why? Does every film or genre of film need this? Sometimes it's nice to just turn your brain off and unwind with a straight-forward comedy or a balls-to-the-wall action movie. I don't watch the likes of 'Taken' for its Shakespearian dialogue and awe-inspiring score - I watch it so I can enjoy Neeson crushing in the skulls of his enemies for 90 minutes, much like I don't pop in 'Commando' for Arnold Schwarzenegger's critically-loved, theatre-born, Oscar-winning acting abilities.

    Also, the franchise is 100% not in danger. If reviews dictated sequels and franchises, the shape of things would be much different in Hollywood right now. Whether its marketing budget was massive or not, it'll already be making money by the end of the week/beginning of the weekend. Plus, given the way the movie wraps up, I see a sequel confirmation on the horizon.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally think there's lots of life in the Bourne franchise, if they play it right. They hinted at where they could take it at the end of the most recent installment and I for one certainly hope they come back again with something fresh and innovative. MI has reinvented itself several times and I have every confidence (based on Jason Bourne) that Damon and Greengrass can do it as well, if they want to.

    As I said, this film was to get us all back into that world after the long break. They will see how it's received, and go from there if they want to do more.

    But how really?? Bond films, and even Mission Impossible films, are so much more diverse. Character-wise as well as story-wise.

    What worked with the first Bourne films was the re-invented action stunts. But......if you don't try to make the characters more diverse and more complex, if you don't write more lines or more interesting dialogues, if you don't let Mr Bourne utter a joke or at least laugh or cry at times....then Jason Bourne becomes a dying action romp and nothing more. I saw 'Jason Bourne' tonight. Nice action yes. But I left the cinema thinking more about what Donald Trump said today or how PSV won the Johan Cruijf Dish. That tells you enough I think. So IMO it completely deserves a 56% RottenTomatoes rating. And the franchise is in danger now.
    Perhaps Bourne is not for you then?

    There are many ways and directions they can go with this franchise and they telegraphed it during the film. I'll say no more because I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet (it opens in some European countries on Aug 10th so some folks have a long time to wait).

    To me, Matt Damon has over the course of 4 films given us a character to root for. One to believe in. One to sympathize with. He's done it without being all that funny, yes. He's also done it without being all that wordy. That's fine with me. I relate to him and what he's been through. Bourne is a $30m damaged man of action, & not words.

    I personally didn't think about anything else during the two hours I was in the theatre (I was completely engrossed and in the moment) and I am really looking forward to what they do with it next.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Haven't seen it yet, but @Creasy47, you're bang on the money. The astute Mark Kermode said once that you can't judge a comedy by the same rules as a drama, and that's correct.

    If you're going into a comedy expecting existential crises and social commentaries about current day issues or deep character studies in an action film made up of old 80s stars, that means you're not really engaging objective thinking and taking the films as they are, but instead as what you want them to be. It's okay not to like a movie, as that's purely subjective, and some things don't connect with everyone in such a massive movie marketplace. But expecting a genre film to do something another genre does better in their cinematic rulebook is erroneous. You're more than free to go into a noir film expecting all the loose ends to be tied up at the end and for the hero to win the day and get the girl, but genre conventions are stacked against such expectations and they will require changing. In fact, some of the most memorable films are those that subvert your expectations and remain unforgettable because they refuse to budge and end the way you want them to.

    Bourne is a genre definer like Bond is, with sets of rules they follow closely. It may not be your thing, but it is what it is. Bond films were able to adapt into character studies well with the Craig era, but I don't think Bourne has that same appeal, as the films are less about him as a character and more about what he responds to and how, like being chased by the CIA and having to survive it. He's extremely reactionary, while Bond is very much the man of action.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves, if you're looking for a movie that's going to make you laugh, cry, or ponder all of life's mysteries, you've come to the wrong franchise. They're action/spy thrillers, nothing more. It seems like there's been this driving force over the last few years to turn everything into something that it isn't: more backstory, more prequels, more character development, more emotion, more insight. Why? Does every film or genre of film need this? Sometimes it's nice to just turn your brain off and unwind with a straight-forward comedy or a balls-to-the-wall action movie. I don't watch the likes of 'Taken' for its Shakespearian dialogue and awe-inspiring score - I watch it so I can enjoy Neeson crushing in the skulls of his enemies for 90 minutes, much like I don't pop in 'Commando' for Arnold Schwarzenegger's critically-loved, theatre-born, Oscar-winning acting abilities.

    Also, the franchise is 100% not in danger. If reviews dictated sequels and franchises, the shape of things would be much different in Hollywood right now. Whether its marketing budget was massive or not, it'll already be making money by the end of the week/beginning of the weekend. Plus, given the way the movie wraps up, I see a sequel confirmation on the horizon.

    I just think it was a louzy Jason Bourne-entry. Can I? For me 'The Bourne Ultimatum' was the pivotal Bourne-film. It had a lot more to offer than just action.

    And I shall be honest now.......I liked 'The Bourne Legacy' even more than 'Jason Bourne'. Action-wise the latest installment to me was one of the worst Bourne movies. So all the questions you are asking don't really matter to me.

    I also think 'Taken 3' was more enjoyable than 'Jason Bourne'. 'The Man From UNCLE' was more enjoyable than 'Jason Bourne'. 'SPECTRE' was more enjoyable than 'Jason Bourne'. I absolutely think 'Mission Impossible - Rogue Nation' totally destroyed 'Jason Bourne'.

    So apart from 'SPECTRE', where the other spy movies I mentioned deep drama? No. 'Jason Bourne' was a bad part of the franchise, and it may have been the nail in the coffin for the franchise. At least for a few years to come.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    For me 'The Bourne Ultimatum' was the pivotal Bourne-film. It had a lot more to offer than just action.
    For me, Identity and Supremacy blow Ultimatum clean out of the water in terms of story depth and insight into Bourne as a man and character. The third film was more the action fest with an almost superman Bourne in my view, while the first two showed him vulnerable and scared even. Those two films forged my interest in his persona and the last two have just ridden the wave.

    I don't tout Jason Bourne as a masterclass entry. It does what it needs to do to refamiliarize us with the franchise and update it for the times. In that respect, it's like GE for me. Formula. Now they have to move forward and get creative again.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @Gustav_Graves, You must not have read the part I wrote where I noted that a sequel is all but confirmed now. It's doing wonders at the box office.
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