Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 12,466
    Birdleson wrote:
    Birdleson wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    There are no bad James Bond films.
    Moonraker.

    MOONRAKER and DAD are bad films. But I will still watch them and try to find things that I enjoy. I'm far more discriminating with films in general (I walk out on more films than I stay through), but I cut Bond a lot of slack.

    IMHO DAD is of the same quality as the other Brosnan-era films. I never understood why people single it out as being poor quality. It's an escapist, enjoyable joyride.

    For me, I can't speak for others, it's primarily the CGI in place of real stunts. Since the '60s Bond movies would have me in awe, wondering how the stunt people pulled that crap off. That is a slap in the face to the history of the character in film and it's followers. I'm glad that EON woke up, and immediately post-title sequence we get some of the best stunt work I've seen in CASINO ROYALE. Add to that the Madonna cameo, Halle Berry's horrible dialogue and the invisible car, and it is a mess.

    I put DAD above TND, MR, and AVTAK because I thought the first half of it was pretty good. MR's first half was ok too, but DAD actually had some pretty good scenes in the first half, including the PTS and fencing scene. It does fall apart horribly in the second half though.
  • Posts: 2,402
    IMO:

    DAF, TMWTGG, MR, and above all, DAD are the four pathetic entries in the series. TND, QOS and AVTAK are very close behind.
  • Birdleson wrote:
    Birdleson wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    There are no bad James Bond films.
    Moonraker.

    MOONRAKER and DAD are bad films. But I will still watch them and try to find things that I enjoy. I'm far more discriminating with films in general (I walk out on more films than I stay through), but I cut Bond a lot of slack.

    IMHO DAD is of the same quality as the other Brosnan-era films. I never understood why people single it out as being poor quality. It's an escapist, enjoyable joyride.

    For me, I can't speak for others, it's primarily the CGI in place of real stunts. Since the '60s Bond movies would have me in awe, wondering how the stunt people pulled that crap off. That is a slap in the face to the history of the character in film and it's followers. I'm glad that EON woke up, and immediately post-title sequence we get some of the best stunt work I've seen in CASINO ROYALE. Add to that the Madonna cameo, Halle Berry's horrible dialogue and the invisible car, and it is a mess.

    The CGI when Brosnan was surfing was pretty bad and very fake looking--but that wasn't a deal-breaker for me. I always liked the invisible car.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    The CGI when Brosnan was surfing was pretty bad and very fake looking--but that wasn't a deal-breaker for me. I always liked the invisible car.

    There's a controversial opinion right there.
    It was the gadget that went to far. Even for James Bond.
    I've read the arguments that show how the military are working on similar things, but it's still very experimental. The truth is the Aston Martin 'Vanish' was jumping the shark.

  • Benny wrote:
    The CGI when Brosnan was surfing was pretty bad and very fake looking--but that wasn't a deal-breaker for me. I always liked the invisible car.

    There's a controversial opinion right there.
    It was the gadget that went to far. Even for James Bond.
    I've read the arguments that show how the military are working on similar things, but it's still very experimental. The truth is the Aston Martin 'Vanish' was jumping the shark.

    More so than the laser gun fight and Bond getting laid in space?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134

    More so than the laser gun fight and Bond getting laid in space?

    Granted, but then most of MR is utter nonsense and is hardly the 'science fact' it's claimed to be. Once Bond and Holly board space shuttles to Drax space city that no-one knows exists, you gone beyond probable.
    Bond going into space was a bad idea, despite the then craze for 'Star Wars' and space adventures. It made money and is an enjoyable film if you don't mind going along for the ride. But OO7 was never trained for space travel.
    Going back to DAD, the invisible car was only part of the problem. The atrocious CGI and lack of any real stunt work made it the first time I felt let down by a Bond film.
    Bond has had at least one signature stunt since probably LALD with the boat chase, and certainly TMWTGG and the spiral jump. In DAD we got a CGI Bond surfing!
    It was the first time that Bond pushed the technology available too far. The invisible car added to the problem and some might say a poor script writing was the nail in the coffin.
    It's why DAD is often regarded by many fans so lowly. Because it didn't deliver.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    FoxRox wrote:
    Not sure how 'controversial' this opinion is, but I think the most average Bond film is For Your Eyes Only. I love the PTS, song, and performance from Roger Moore, but it doesn't stand out in the series as anything great per se. My favorite thing about it is that it's the darkest and most realistic of the Moore films, and feels more traditional, but there's nothing about it either that sets it above most of the other ones. Again, if anyone asked me what the most average Bond film was, I'd say FYEO.

    Not controversial at all. Except with me, that is. I love that film, but I know I am part of a minority.
  • Posts: 1,052
    The fight scenes in OHMSS are not very good, too much sped up camera work.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The fight scenes in OHMSS are not very good, too much sped up camera work.
    The editing leaves something to be desired but you cannot deny that Lazenby is damn good at the fight scenes,something i would have liked to have seen in a Lazenby DAF film....oh well.


  • Ooh, I have a VERY good one:

    There are grounds to argue that Connery was the worst Bond. I don't think he was, not even close, but there are valid arguments.

    I currently rank him 5th, just above the Broozer. If I may repeat myself, 2 bored performances out of 6 hardly makes him the best Bond actor ever.
  • FoxRox wrote:
    Ooh, I have a VERY good one:

    There are grounds to argue that Connery was the worst Bond. I don't think he was, not even close, but there are valid arguments.

    Worst? Let's hear them. How could anyone argue George Lazenby was better?

    As a whole, you can't really argue Laz was better, but he had advantages over Connery, such as being a more human Bond and possibly better in action scenes.

    Right on. Had Laz play in more than one movie he just might have climb to the very first spot, currently held by Timothy Dalton.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I have Connery in 3rd spot.
    He hit his heights in FRWL IMO and ok he looked fine in GF but all the character did was sit on his arse throughout the film with a smirk.
    I would say he only truly performed in DN,FRWL and TB.
  • Posts: 1,052
    barryt007 wrote:
    The fight scenes in OHMSS are not very good, too much sped up camera work.
    The editing leaves something to be desired but you cannot deny that Lazenby is damn good at the fight scenes,something i would have liked to have seen in a Lazenby DAF film....oh well.


    Certainly can't deny that Lazenby was good himself in the scenes.
    Sped up camera work must have been a 60's thing like the ridiculous climax of Thunderball.
  • Posts: 19,339
    hahaha TB was a total disaster in the final fight scene.

    You have Connery and Celi slugging it out brilliantly and the fastest ship ive ever seen whizzing past everything behind them - shameful really.
  • Posts: 1,052
    barryt007 wrote:
    hahaha TB was a total disaster in the final fight scene.

    You have Connery and Celi slugging it out brilliantly and the fastest ship ive ever seen whizzing past everything behind them - shameful really.

    Perhaps they should have sped up the fight scenes in AVTAK to help Rog out (when present obviously).
  • Posts: 19,339
    Bless him,i still think he did OK in AVTAK but that had to be as far as he went.

    To even think of putting him in TLD would have made it a farce.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Sped up camera work was fairly common in the 50s and 60s films. I remember Rear Window also used it in 1954.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Its used in FRWL as well when Bond throws the SPECTRE thug out of the boat.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    I thought the invisible car was one of the least of DAD's problems. I didn't mind it that much, it's not like we haven't had OTT gadgets before. It's the **** writing, the **** plot, the **** CGI, the **** characters and the **** theme song that drag DAD down imo.
    Benny wrote:

    More so than the laser gun fight and Bond getting laid in space?

    Granted, but then most of MR is utter nonsense and is hardly the 'science fact' it's claimed to be. Once Bond and Holly board space shuttles to Drax space city that no-one knows exists, you gone beyond probable.
    Bond going into space was a bad idea, despite the then craze for 'Star Wars' and space adventures. It made money and is an enjoyable film if you don't mind going along for the ride. But OO7 was never trained for space travel.
    Going back to DAD, the invisible car was only part of the problem. The atrocious CGI and lack of any real stunt work made it the first time I felt let down by a Bond film.
    Bond has had at least one signature stunt since probably LALD with the boat chase, and certainly TMWTGG and the spiral jump. In DAD we got a CGI Bond surfing!
    It was the first time that Bond pushed the technology available too far. The invisible car added to the problem and some might say a poor script writing was the nail in the coffin.
    It's why DAD is often regarded by many fans so lowly. Because it didn't deliver.

    I thought the real surfing at the beginning was a decent stunt, although it's nothing compared to the cargo net fight, the crocodile stepping stones, the car spiral jump, the ski base jump, the bungee jump, the crane parkour, etc.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I thought the invisible car was one of the least of DAD's problems. I didn't mind it that much, it's not like we haven't had OTT gadgets before. It's the **** writing, the **** plot, the **** CGI, the **** characters and the **** theme song that drag DAD down imo.

    Couldn't agree more, @thelivingroyale! The invisible car at least is sold rather well IMO; it's silly but overall fitting the outrageousness of the film. The car is a charming scar; some like it and some don't. But the rest of the film is like a venereal disease at times: ugly to look at and painful to touch. That said, I still like DAD better than TWINE. At least DAD accepts its outrageousness and goes all the way to celebrate it. TWINE demands a certain seriousness which I'm not sure I'm willing to indulge the film.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 19,339
    The car doesnt bother me in the slightest either tbh.
    It was explained about the reflective mirrors so it wasnt actually invisible as more camouflaged.
    I think it gets a lot of bad press on here when,as others have said,DAD has a LOT more problems once it hits the second half of the film,after a pretty good first half to me.

    But DAD itself does entertain me and its a film i put on when i am drunk and want to flake out and watch something familiar,so i probably watch it more than the other Bond flicks at the moment.

    That probably explains why DAD has 2 films below it on my list.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I too do find DAD more lively overall than DAF (at least the first half of the film). To me the sword fight in the former is more thrilling than anything in the latter. DAF just feels sluggish and slow
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2014 Posts: 17,789
    To me, DAD attains a level of excellence that I only wish Moonraker had.
    ....a very low level...
    ...but acceptable to me...
    DAD turned into a stupid comic book in the last third.
    MR turned into Saturday morning cartoon in its.

    I like stupid comic books better than Saturday morning cartoons I guess....
    :))
  • Not only is DAD the worst film in the series, it is worst by several parsecs. It has no competition, thank God.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I'm sorry. I know im a bad person for not putting DAD at the bottom :( I just enjoy it more than DAF. Maybe it's DAF's pretty slow pace all the way through, fat bloated Connery not giving a crap or the cheap looking production throughout. I just don't like that film and struggle to finish it more than DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm sorry. I know im a bad person for not putting DAD at the bottom :(
    If you kind of grit your teeth every time Halle has a line, it's actually a fun movie IMO.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Oh believe me I do grit my teeth. Her and Jill St. John have a similar affect.

    "I think I got the...thrust of it"

    "James? What's going to happen to me?"

    I would take Jill over Halle though. Jill is great in a couple of scenes. Halle isn't great in any.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm sorry. I know im a bad person for not putting DAD at the bottom :( I just enjoy it more than DAF. Maybe it's DAF's pretty slow pace all the way through, fat bloated Connery not giving a crap or the cheap looking production throughout. I just don't like that film and struggle to finish it more than DAD.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion. But whereas DAD is a cringe-inducing insult to one's intelligence, DAF is witty and humorous, has perhaps the best score of all Bond films, and has a bizarre darkness about it that makes the film interesting on an artistic and tonal level, even if it is not technically top notch. And I don't consider Connery "not giving a crap" to be an accurate critique at all. It's YOLT in which he didn't care and it showed. In DAF, Seanery clearly enjoys being the straight man in what is the great, dark comedy of the Bond series.

  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I don't think DAF is all that funny in itself to be honest. Yes there are some humorous lines but I don't really consider Tiffany Case in the majority of the film, Bond in the moon-buggy, lumbering law enforcers or Blofeld in drag to be particularly witty, humorous or sophisticated. In honesty I find them annoying and dated. The plot has little tension and towards the end it seems the film-makers didn't care.

    "Phone call from Washington...urgent"
    "I'll catch it in the John"

    If they aren't going to take Blofeld's scheme remotely seriously then we have no reason to either. At least in DAD it felt there was a bit more at stake.

    I don't think Connery was particularly fussed throughout the film, he certainly doesn't feel like the same man that was so great in DN, FRWL etc.

    As a parody I'd rather watch the first Austin Powers.

    Also regarding the score, its decent but is it really as memorable as FRWL, GF, OHMSS, MR or even AVTAK? I don't think so.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm sorry. I know im a bad person for not putting DAD at the bottom :( I just enjoy it more than DAF. Maybe it's DAF's pretty slow pace all the way through, fat bloated Connery not giving a crap or the cheap looking production throughout. I just don't like that film and struggle to finish it more than DAD.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion. But whereas DAD is a cringe-inducing insult to one's intelligence, DAF is witty and humorous, has perhaps the best score of all Bond films, and has a bizarre darkness about it that makes the film interesting on an artistic and tonal level, even if it is not technically top notch. And I don't consider Connery "not giving a crap" to be an accurate critique at all. It's YOLT in which he didn't care and it showed. In DAF, Seanery clearly enjoys being the straight man in what is the great, dark comedy of the Bond series.

    The only thing (apart from the soundtrack, which is a given,since they had Barry then) DAF has over DAD are the one liners. At least Brosnan looks like he is able to run a 100m , without needing an oxygen shower afterwards. Its story is a bad joke, and some of the remarks are simply tasteless,considering that it trails OHMSS.
    Bizarre darkness? Yeah,sure!
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