Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    echo wrote: »
    Not controversial enough? How about: "The ending of QoS redeemed the entire movie."
    If I didn't like the rest of the film so much I'd agree. But yeah, it's a fantastic ending IMO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I liked Koskov a lot (I'm a fan of Krabbe though...quite charismatic). Whitaker wasn't quite to my taste however. I much prefer Joe Don Baker as Wade.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2015 Posts: 17,789
    bondjames wrote: »
    Whitaker wasn't quite to my taste however. I much prefer Joe Don Baker as Wade.
    His Wade was better, yeah, but his Whitaker was a pretty good war-profiteering warrior wannabe weasel.
  • Posts: 232
    Walecs wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    My controversial opinion (although I don't know what the popular opinion is because it's not discussed much) is that I don't like the Binder titles and that Kleinman is the most consistent positive about all the 90's and beyond films he is involved with.

    I'm with you there. Besides DAD (my worst title sequence), all of Kleinman's titles are way ahead of the Binder/MK12 titles. Binder's kinda hit (TSWLM), miss (OHMSS) or samey (MR). MK12 are just terrible.
    I prefer Kleinman's titles over Binder's too. Binder made some very good ones, but Kleinman's are superior.
    No idea why MK12 were chosen for QoS, clearly Forster (I'm assuming it was his decision) has terrible tastes.

    Pretty sure MK12 had worked several Forster films, including STRANGER THAN FICTION, where they were doing very clever riffs on the FIGHT CLUB ikea graphics throughout the film. I really wish they'd kept MK12 on; I mean, they kept Gassner, even if he hasn't really gotten to cut loose again since QUANTUM, and I find the SKYFALL credits look like a riff on Tim Burton's stuff, in a bad way.
  • Posts: 15,114
    bondjames wrote: »
    I liked Koskov a lot (I'm a fan of Krabbe though...quite charismatic). Whitaker wasn't quite to my taste however. I much prefer Joe Don Baker as Wade.

    Krabbe is an inspired casting for a poorly written role. He could have played Blofeld. Or a crypto-Blofeld, which maybe Koskov should have been.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I didn't mind Koskov this time around. Whitaker is still a bit meh, he is better as Wade. Doesn't stop TLD from being my top Bond though
  • Posts: 11,189
    Recently I've grown to not particularly like Della in LTK.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Right there with you @bain123. Just watched last night. Affection between her and Bond is so forced.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Recently I've grown to not particularly like Della in LTK.

    She's not a very good actress. Oddly, LTK has some of the best (Del Toro, Davi) and worst casting in the series (Soto, Zerbe, Stroud, Newton, etc.). Dalton is just middling for me in this entry (I love him in TLD), as is Lowell.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I think Priscilla Barnes is wonderfull in Three's Company.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    I'd add McGill to that list. Are we meant to take Killifer seriously? I can't help but snigger whenever he comes onscreen.

    Zerbe is very good. You almost feel sorry for him when he's pleading with Sanchez.

    I'm kind of mixed on Dalton, Lowell ("hell I knew something was wrong") and even Hedison here.

    (Hedison's mumbling of "Della" when he comes round from the attack doesn't sound very convincing to me)
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Have to disagree on McGill.

    Really? He's pretty bad. His interrogation of Sanchez is hammed up to the extreme.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I actually love all the characters in LTK. Eh, except for Kwang and his ninja assistant.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 1,310
    I do mostly like LTK, but I have to agree with some of you who are saying some of the supporting cast is a bit weak/overly hammy.

    Killifer is a big, giant ham. ("Why that's...nine hunnred, thirty six yeeeeeears.")

    Talisa Soto...less said the better. Carey Lowell actually had a good turn on Law & Order for a number of years, but in LTK she isn't so great. Perhaps it was Glen's lack of direction.

    Even David Hedison, who's mauling scene is pretty good, hams it up big time at the beginning of the film. ("OKAY. BUT STRICTLY AS AN OBSERVER!") I cringe every time I hear that line.

    However, Anthony Zerbe was great.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Talisa Soto might not be a great actress but I love Lupe as a character.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I love LTK, and every character/actor in it.

    Here's one: there are really only four flawless Bond movies:
    DN, FRWL, GF & TSWLM.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love LTK, and every character/actor in it.

    Here's one: there are really only four flawless Bond movies:
    DN, FRWL, GF & TSWLM.

    I would swap out TSWLM for CR ( and OHMSS is goddamned close). I love TSWLM, but there are a few patches that I would remove.
    CR is flawless only if you don't mind the added melodrama of Vesper's death. I yearned for the book version, so in my eyes it is flawed.
    OHMSS (like TLD & QOS) is close, but still slightly flawed by uneven-ness IMO.
    TSWLM, however, sets its tone & plays rather flawlessly by its own rules!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    If I may humbly wade in on this discussion:

    TSWLM is a legend, imho of course. I was just thinking about that film today. I haven't seen it in years, and it never disappoints. Epic.

    I believe the flawless ones are:
    DN, FRWL, TB (despite sped up stuff and underwater work - it was 1965 for pete's sake, so they deserve a break). Basically the Young trio.
    TSWLM (Moore at his best is beautiful to watch - and it's Gilbert's best)
    CR (Craig joining the greats, directed by Campbell)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    bondjames wrote: »
    TB (despite sped up stuff and underwater work - it was 1965 for pete's sake, so they deserve a break).
    If one can see past the pacing & FX issues I suppose it might be deemed 'reasonably' flawless then...
    :-?
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    Talisa Soto is one of my favorite things in Licence To Kill. Her character seems very natural, almost as if she was just playing herself.

    My controversial opinion in Licence To Kill is that Dalton is scripted to have inconsistencies that don't suit him well. At times he is brooding and out of control, but then he blinks right into hamming it up with Carey Lowell. It doesn't help that their chemistry feels off. Another thing the film tries to do is expand his friendship with Q, but there are further oddities with how he treats Q. It's very easy to mistake his attempted concern for Q's wellbeing in the field to be disapproving of his involvement. Roger and Pierce had a much much better tone with Q to make this sort of plot device work.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    @Mansfield, these are all fair comments IMHO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Mansfield wrote: »
    Talisa Soto is one of my favorite things in Licence To Kill. Her character seems very natural, almost as if she was just playing herself.

    I'm afraid this might be a lot closer to the truth of the matter than one may think. I don't think there was much in the way of acting occurring here, at least not that I could tell.

    I agree with you on the inconsistencies in LTK, although I'm a latecomer fan of this film. They should have probably just not have involved Q & the chemistry with Bouvier does seem off as you suggest as well. I always felt Dalton was uncomfortable playing the smoothie with the ladies though...he seemed better when in confrontation mode.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    bondjames wrote: »
    I always felt Dalton was uncomfortable playing the smoothie with the ladies though...he seemed better when in confrontation mode.
    This is exactly the thing that hampered him in Licence To Kill. I think they didn't really know how to direct him into a singular character. They gave him liberty to play the role he wanted to more than in The Living Daylights, but I think they were caught in the middle when it came to romances. He would seemingly just flip a switch from confrontation to love and almost reconciliation. It was really quite awkward at times.

    The Living Daylights commonly gets knocked because the script was written in the shadows of Roger, but I felt like Dalton nailed it. It had more agreement within the character that he played and that makes for a very immersive and enjoyable viewing experience. His chemistry with Kara is not great, but I tend to put that one more of her. She is just very unimpressive as a Bond girl and doesn't act particularly well to elevate her stature.

    It's easy to knock Dalton for his smoothness with the ladies, but he only had a small sample to work with. I think he needed to have a more worthy actress opposite himself to go places where the girls of Roger seldom went. He needed to have a girl he could get a connection with at a psychological level - kind of like a Vesper or Severine. That would have made for a good show.

    Edit: Talisa Soto is the closest thing he got and I quite enjoyed their scenes together. Perhaps not on a performance level, but in terms of the characters they were portraying, she was the closest thing to his proper match. This makes the end of Licence To Kill all the more mismatched to me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    "Bless your heart!"
    :))
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    Mansfield wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I always felt Dalton was uncomfortable playing the smoothie with the ladies though...he seemed better when in confrontation mode.

    The Living Daylights commonly gets knocked because the script was written in the shadows of Roger, but I felt like Dalton nailed it. It had more agreement within the character that he played and that makes for a very immersive and enjoyable viewing experience. His chemistry with Kara is not great, but I tend to put that one more of her. She is just very unimpressive as a Bond girl and doesn't act particularly well to elevate her stature.

    Wow, I feel like I saw a completely different movie. I love Dalton's chemistry with d'Abo; it feels real and romantic for the first time since, well, Tracy. Plus, there is a bit of Bond manipulating an innocent that works and gives him a bit of a harder edge. I also think Dalton plays great off Saunders--of course in the sniper scene but also at the amusement park.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    echo wrote: »
    Wow, I feel like I saw a completely different movie.
    Me too. In my book, TLD is practically flawless in almost every respect save for the Mujahideen dudes showing up at the concert... (heh heh)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    echo wrote: »
    Mansfield wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I always felt Dalton was uncomfortable playing the smoothie with the ladies though...he seemed better when in confrontation mode.

    The Living Daylights commonly gets knocked because the script was written in the shadows of Roger, but I felt like Dalton nailed it. It had more agreement within the character that he played and that makes for a very immersive and enjoyable viewing experience. His chemistry with Kara is not great, but I tend to put that one more of her. She is just very unimpressive as a Bond girl and doesn't act particularly well to elevate her stature.

    Wow, I feel like I saw a completely different movie. I love Dalton's chemistry with d'Abo; it feels real and romantic for the first time since, well, Tracy. Plus, there is a bit of Bond manipulating an innocent that works and gives him a bit of a harder edge. I also think Dalton plays great off Saunders--of course in the sniper scene but also at the amusement park.

    I didn't find D'Abo particularly convincing in TLD either, but that may be down to her characterization, which appeared overly innocent, and her acting, which I wasn't all that fond of. The women I know from the former Eastern bloc are quite resourceful & strong, like Natalya from GE, so that could be why I didn't quite buy her naivete.

    I agree that their relationship felt somewhat genuine, but that wasn't too difficult, since Roger Moore's relationships as Bond were mostly flirtatious, Melina in FYEO excepted.

    When he went back to get the cello, that was a nice moment.

    Bond/Saunders is great though....just great. Shades of Bond/Kerim.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    TB (despite sped up stuff and underwater work - it was 1965 for pete's sake, so they deserve a break).
    If one can see past the pacing & FX issues I suppose it might be deemed 'reasonably' flawless then...
    :-?
    I've never had a problem with TB's pacing. It's certainly more face-paced than FRWL, and it never seems like any scenes are there for their own sake and could have been cut out (like a good bit of CR's last act).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roger Moore's relationships as Bond were mostly flirtatious
    Clarification.jpg
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    When I'm looking at chemistry, I like to see them bring out something more in the other person. I'm not sure Kara does that all too much for Dalton's Bond. They have their moments definitely, but it feels more superficial to me. Perhaps it is because she is impressionable and vulnerable, eventually resulting in her allegiance to Bond. Dalton takes more advantage of this than she does and that creates a perception that the two are on separate wavelengths (not for the entire film).
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