Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    GBF wrote: »
    One big advantage of TSWLM is that Jaws was a scary and very memorable henchman where as he was only overly silly and cartoonish in Moonraker.

    I find Jaws plenty cartoonish in TSWLM:

    1. Jaws drops a massive stone block on his foot like an oaf and gets a goofy startled expression on his face and does no more than wince like he simply stubbed his toe instead of getting every bone in his foot crushed.

    2. In the car chase, the car with Jaws in it goes off a cliff and crashes through the roof of a cottage, nose down. After crashing, Jaws waltzes out like nothing happened and dusts himself off while the cottage's owners look on at him with awe for laughs.

    3. Jaws gets thrown off a train and we cut to him getting up and just looking miffed and brushing himself off again--not cracking his arm back into place.

    4. A whole collection of massive stone blocks collapse on Jaws and he somehow survives this!

    5. Jaws survives a fight with a shark AND survives drowning in Stromberg's sinking lair!

  • Posts: 4,325
    josiah wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    One big advantage of TSWLM is that Jaws was a scary and very memorable henchman where as he was only overly silly and cartoonish in Moonraker.

    I find Jaws plenty cartoonish in TSWLM:

    1. Jaws drops a massive stone block on his foot like an oaf and gets a goofy startled expression on his face and does no more than wince like he simply stubbed his toe instead of getting every bone in his foot crushed.

    2. In the car chase, the car with Jaws in it goes off a cliff and crashes through the roof of a cottage, nose down. After crashing, Jaws waltzes out like nothing happened and dusts himself off while the cottage's owners look on at him with awe for laughs.

    3. Jaws gets thrown off a train and we cut to him getting up and just looking miffed and brushing himself off again--not cracking his arm back into place.

    4. A whole collection of massive stone blocks collapse on Jaws and he somehow survives this!

    5. Jaws survives a fight with a shark AND survives drowning in Stromberg's sinking lair!

    I was actually pretty scared of Jaws in TSWLM as a kid.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I was actually pretty scared of Jaws in TSWLM as a kid.

    I find the character equal parts menacing and funny in both films (until the end of MR, which is admittedly different). Jaws is like Non from Superman II. I like the sympathetic monster angle--like Frankenstein's monster. I understand suspending disbelief for both films but what I don't understand is why some feel one film merits suspending disbelief and the other does not.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Jaws has some quite scary scenes. In Rio in the alley. In Egypt by the pyramids. When he kills the shark.
    Of course for every scary scene there is a silly scene. But that's the beauty of Jaws and that's why he is an icon to this day.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    The focus of the humor is usually Jaws being clumsy or simple-minded or reactions from mere mortals to his God-like levels of invincibility or those teeth. You can have a clumsy and simple minded character and still have them be a credible physical threat--it doesn't negate that.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Once a character is established as immortal (in the context of Bond's world), there's not s hell of s lot of tension that can be brought in with them.

    I always know coming into a Bond movie that Bond isn't going to die. These movies make too much money for them to ever let that happen, but a henchman that is nearly as indestructible as Bond is always makes things a bit more even and exciting to me--particularly if Bond is physically outmatched.
  • Posts: 1,386
    Birdleson wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Once a character is established as immortal (in the context of Bond's world), there's not s hell of s lot of tension that can be brought in with them.

    I always know coming into a Bond movie that Bond isn't going to die. These movies make too much money for them to ever let that happen, but a henchman that is nearly as indestructible as Bond is always makes things a bit more even and exciting to me--particularly if Bond is physically outmatched.

    Bond can face mortal peril. Sure you know that he's going to die, but he doesn't know that (well, in the Moore and Brosnan eras he certainly acted as such at times). Therein a sense of real danger for Bond in the better films, I don't think the indestructibility of Jaws is an accurate comparison.

    What are we comparing? You've lost me.
  • Posts: 1,386
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought you were comparing Bond's apparently immortality, with that of Jaws. I guess I misunderstood.

    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Birdleson wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Once a character is established as immortal (in the context of Bond's world), there's not s hell of s lot of tension that can be brought in with them.

    I always know coming into a Bond movie that Bond isn't going to die. These movies make too much money for them to ever let that happen, but a henchman that is nearly as indestructible as Bond is always makes things a bit more even and exciting to me--particularly if Bond is physically outmatched.

    Bond can face mortal peril. Sure you know that he's going to die, but he doesn't know that (well, in the Moore and Brosnan eras he certainly acted as such at times). Therein a sense of real danger for Bond in the better films, I don't think the indestructibility of Jaws is an accurate comparison.

    Well here comes my controversial opinion. I think Bond's almost indestructible appearance is part of what makes him different from any other action hero.

    Moore movies came to look like parodies not because he is almost indescribable but because of His Films where very comedy oriented due to Moore not being comfortable with Violence and to Not being constantly compared to Sean Connery.


  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought you were comparing Bond's apparently immortality, with that of Jaws. I guess I misunderstood.

    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought you were comparing Bond's apparently immortality, with that of Jaws. I guess I misunderstood.

    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.

    Jaws is a cross between Dracula and The Mummy, if you ask me.
  • Posts: 1,386
    RC7 wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.

    Yes I would say Jaws is pretty threatening. If he can bite through metal chains and thick steel cables he can do some pretty bad damage to human flesh. We can always agree to disagree though. In my experience, liking MR is pretty controversial.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2016 Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought you were comparing Bond's apparently immortality, with that of Jaws. I guess I misunderstood.

    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.

    Jaws is a cross between Dracula and The Mummy, if you ask me.

    I can see that, in a sort of theatrical hammer horror way. The problem is, he only exudes that sort of nightmarish quality in the pyramids scene, in pursuit of Fekkesh. Most of his role is underpinned with a sense of goofiness that nullifies any real threat. Again, I'm not slating him, I think in that capacity he serves a purpose and is wonderfully cartoonish.
    josiah wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.

    Yes I would say Jaws is pretty threatening. If he can bite through metal chains and thick steel cables he can do some pretty bad damage to human flesh. We can always agree to disagree though. In my experience, liking MR is pretty controversial.

    I like both MR and Jaws. The poster is on my living room wall and a set of his teeth on my coffee table. However, I'm not blind to it as a piece of cinema. It is an excessive, overindulgent, gloriously shot, breezy piece of care-free cinema. It's a sense of awe rather than tension that drive MR for me. Jaws being able to bite through cables is merely superficial in the grand scheme of things.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    I find Jaws both goofy and threatening. I don't have a problem with the combination because I don't think that goofy, slapstick, or cartoonish equals harmless. I think both elements can co-exist, but that's just me--different strokes for different folks. To me Jaws is like a clown with a chainsaw. Sure he is goofy....but my hackles still go up when I see him
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    josiah wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought you were comparing Bond's apparently immortality, with that of Jaws. I guess I misunderstood.

    I guess for me the tension between Bond and the villains all comes from whether or not Bond will live. As you pointed out, the actor's performance helps to convince you that he is actually in peril even if you know he really isn't. Since the tension (for me) comes from Bond being in mortal peril, I am simply at a loss as to how a near-immortal henchman does anything but increase that tension (but maybe you watch Bond films for a different type of tension).

    Is Jaws ever genuinely threatening, though? Goldfinger carries far more threat and he's in no shape to get in to a dust-up with Bond. Likewise Grant carries a similar threat, with added physical prowess. Even in TSWLM Jaws is a caricature. Don't get me wrong, TSWLM is a belter, but he comes across as oafish, rather than someone like Bautista in SP who looks like he could do some serious damage.

    Jaws is a cross between Dracula and The Mummy, if you ask me.

    I can see that, in a sort of theatrical hammer horror way. The problem is, he only exudes that sort of nightmarish quality in the pyramids scene, in pursuit of Fekkesh. Most of his role is underpinned with a sense of goofiness that nullifies any real threat. Again, I'm not slating him, I think in that capacity he serves a purpose and is wonderfully cartoonish.

    I know what you mean. I always face palm when Bond has his gun trained on Jaws at point-blank range and manages to shoot him in the teeth. :-w

    That's nearly as bad as when Dalton unloads his gun on Whitaker's protective face guard. Just shoot him in the leg!!
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I still think that Jaws is OK in TSWLM, certainly cartoonish but somehow funny but not yet silly. In MR they simply crossed the line. (end of PTS, Jaws falls in love, boat chase).

    It is also not good to bring a character back if you have no good direction in which you can develop him. They brought him bach for pure commercial reasons. There is one very good line related to Jaws in Moonraker (his name is Jaws, he kills people...)
  • I think it's funny Drax says well of course, if you can get him as though Jaws is a master assassin. The guy sticks out a mile and has terrible methods of killing people, given his strengths. The only time he succeeds is when the victim behaves like an idiot. His finest moment is the train in TSWLM, I will give him that.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Jaws is frightening up until the pyramid scene. At first, his zombie-like survival of the collapsed scaffolding adds to his menace, but we end up getting him incompetently wrecking the car and him dropping the rock on his feet with the startled face he makes. As Ken Adam notes in the TSWLM commentary, that's the moment where Jaws' character changes completely. Not that he lacks potency in later scenes, but that's where the comical side is introduced and it ends up getting stuck in the films like a plague that just won't quit. And it stays on for MR, too, which is even worse.

    As for Lazenby, he had a natural class due to his physique, but that was it. He was completely wooden and uncharismatic in everything but the romantic scenes, and there's scenes where he's outright uncomfortable as Bond. That's not the mark of a classy, confident Bond actor - he's a far cry from Connery, and even the audiences of '69 recognized that. In fairness, though, anybody will get dwarfed following Connery.

  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,386
    @rocketgun83 I love what you have done here in terms of creating a thread for people to safely share opinions that do not match the general concensus on this forum. It's absolutely wonderful that this forum has such a place. I may not agree with all your opinions, but I appreciate your candor. Honestly, the world would be pretty dull if everyone had the same opinions.

  • As for Lazenby, he had a natural class due to his physique, but that was it. He was completely wooden and uncharismatic in everything but the romantic scenes

    Don't confuse wooden with stiff upper lip. What about the ice rink sequence? His fear there was completely believable.

    there's scenes where he's outright uncomfortable as Bond.

    Examples please?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    As for Lazenby, he had a natural class due to his physique, but that was it. He was completely wooden and uncharismatic in everything but the romantic scenes

    Don't confuse wooden with stiff upper lip. What about the ice rink sequence? His fear there was completely believable.

    Well said. The fear on his face there and a few moments earlier when he his trying to quietlychoke the guy on the cliff edge bring a level of vulnerability to the character you just never get with Sean.
  • Posts: 9,846
    Mine for the Day

    I don't mind if Bond 25 is a revenge laden film due to the death of Madeline Swann. People act like we have had so many "this time it's personal bond films" but Honestly I disagree and feel in terms of Revenge being the sole motivator Licence to Kill and Quantum stand out (even Goldeneye feels much more mission based then revenge) Like I said as long as it can be done in an interesting and different way like those two films Bond 25 could sit comfortably in my top 10 list.


    Personally the idea of a Bond film titled Blofeld works for me I wouldn't be thrilled or upset if bond 25 was titled Blofeld but honestly if that is the final film for Blofeld and spectre (for a while anyways) I am fine with ti being the title of the final confrontation

    The Switch from Spectre to Quantum is incredibly Lazy and with people praising the New spectre (even though they are doing largely what Quantum did in Royale and Solace and Spectre did in thunderball kind of annoys me)

    People Complaining about Quantum's plan for controlling the water supply in Bolivia REALY need to pay attention to Thunderball as clearly a lot of their schemes there (and indeed in From Russia with Love) are small scale project to get money and influence through Embezzlement Drug Trafficking and Espionage. I was shock in how low key all the other schemes were compared to Number 2's Nato Project and even that when compared to Stromberg and Drax's plans (and indeed Blofeld's own plans in You Only live twice-diamonds are forever) seems rather well low key....

  • Posts: 1,386
    My controversial opinion is that (despite people in several other threads referring to it as a revenge-themed film) Quantum of Solace ultimately feels less like a revenge film and more about Bond getting closure to me. Suicide is hard to avenge.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Mine for the Day

    I don't mind if Bond 25 is a revenge laden film due to the death of Madeline Swann. People act like we have had so many "this time it's personal bond films" but Honestly I disagree and feel in terms of Revenge being the sole motivator Licence to Kill and Quantum stand out (even Goldeneye feels much more mission based then revenge) Like I said as long as it can be done in an interesting and different way like those two films Bond 25 could sit comfortably in my top 10 list.


    Personally the idea of a Bond film titled Blofeld works for me I wouldn't be thrilled or upset if bond 25 was titled Blofeld but honestly if that is the final film for Blofeld and spectre (for a while anyways) I am fine with ti being the title of the final confrontation

    The Switch from Spectre to Quantum is incredibly Lazy and with people praising the New spectre (even though they are doing largely what Quantum did in Royale and Solace and Spectre did in thunderball kind of annoys me)

    People Complaining about Quantum's plan for controlling the water supply in Bolivia REALY need to pay attention to Thunderball as clearly a lot of their schemes there (and indeed in From Russia with Love) are small scale project to get money and influence through Embezzlement Drug Trafficking and Espionage. I was shock in how low key all the other schemes were compared to Number 2's Nato Project and even that when compared to Stromberg and Drax's plans (and indeed Blofeld's own plans in You Only live twice-diamonds are forever) seems rather well low key....

    This is a post from another thread, but I think it does a good job of summarising the evolution of the organisation, if you take it in the context of retroactive continuity, which you have to...
    Considering the inclusion of Spectre in Craig’s fourth film and the decision Mendes made to retcon the last few films, I decided to ponder....... Who Exactly Are “Spectre”?


    The Spectre we meet in CR and QOS are a very professional outfit. They are not depicted in the same light as the terrorist groups that we see in the news, they have no express ideological goal, nor are they interested in promoting their existence or cause. Spectre are far from ostentatious, instead preferring to operate in the shadows and manipulating factors from behind the scenes. Essentially they are more interested in the business of terrorism and operating an effective and professional service.

    In CR we only get a very small insight into the type of work that the organisation does. Here we see Spectre working as “middle-men” involved in the financing and banking of terrorism. They are not directly involved in the acts of terrorism but more consulting and managing the financial and business aspects of the job. They are not fanatics but it’s most likely that in this context their clients are.

    Le Chiffre is most likely a banker who turned to a life of crime and had since gained a reputation in the underworld. As a result he probably gained the interest of Spectre; I doubt he was a direct employee of the organisation, instead he was likely a contractor who provided a reliable service in the past. I really doubt that Le Chiffre had much contact, if any, with Blofeld. The closest he would have got to the top of the pyramid would likely have been Mr. White.

    So from CR we only got a very brief glimpse into the sheer scale of Spectre… which leads to QOS. Here we find out that the organisation is far more than just a professional terrorist consultancy service. We learn that Spectre in fact has a large international monopoly with its membership including CEOs of large corporations, influential political figures and senior figures in major intelligence networks. They are an Illuminati-type group who are silently attempting to manipulate the world order. In the film we encounter “Quantum” – a small subsidiary of Spectre. Quantum are clearly involved in the more professional business of criminality – there chief goal seems to involve furthering Spectre’s political grasp globally.

    I imagine considering his senior position in Spectre; Mr White was the chief of Quantum (especially considering he was at the meeting in Austria and was wearing the ‘Q’ lapel-pin) – I doubt he would have taken orders from Greene. I believe White was an assassin, most likely Blofeld’s most trusted assassin, hence why he was later promoted to running Quantum. I doubt Greene got anywhere near to Blofeld, I’d also be surprised to learn if he knew much of Spectre’s business. His only link would have been White, and White’s business would be none of his.

    Trying to connect Silva to Spectre is more difficult. Mendes’s retcon sits a little uneasily with SF as Silva describes himself as being a freelance hacker. It’s therefore very likely that he had often been contacted by Spectre to do numerous jobs for them over the years. He’s immensely talented, so it’s likely he has proved to be a very important contact for Spectre. Plus if you are a freelance criminal it’s likely you’d run into Spectre, especially if you consider the size and structure of the group.

    Additionally, considering Silva’s skillset and his status (he’s an ex-MI6 agent), I’d imagine he would have met Blofeld. I would think that Blofeld was directly responsible for helping Silva execute his place to attack MI6’s HQ and kill M. It would help explain the cheer audacity of Silva’s scheme (escaping MI6 custody/London tube bombing/inquiry shoot-out) and explain things such as how he got a helicopter in the middle of Scotland at the last minute. I would think that Blofeld was able to give Silva all the resources he needed to carry out the scheme especially as he knew it would psychologically affect Bond. However, I doubt Blofeld revealed his personal connection to 007 to Silva.

    This now brings us to Craig’s fourth film. I imagine that since capturing Yusef Kabira, M had begun to get a firmer idea that there was one larger organisation controlling things. I imagine she kept this information firmly to herself whilst she investigated the group independently. She couldn’t trust anyone with the information, not even Bond, as she became aware that the organisation’s power was near universal. I imagine it’s one of the reasons she refuses to resign in SF when Mallory asks her too; she says she’ll leave “when the job’s done” – possible a reference to her quest to expose Spectre? Anyway, Silva throws a spanner in the works and knowing that her demise is imminent she sent a video to Bond asking him to kill Sciarra – who was clearly a lead she was chasing. M had obviously gained some knowledge on the way Spectre operated and how they organised their meetings.

    The Spectre from CR and QOS have evolved in SP. They are not just a professional criminal liaison service or even an Illunanti-esque group, they are now an outwardly aggressive terrorist group who are directly responsible for numerous attacks across the globe.

    Blofeld is heavily invested in bringing about the Nine Eyes programme and thereby makes an alliance with Max Denbigh – a British diplomat who believes more surveillance is necessary to protect national security. Blofeld believes that if he is able to provide an incentive to those countries to sign-up he too will be able to access the shared datastreams from all those states and further his global monopoly. Knowing that the countries will only respond if they believe their nationals security is threatened, Spectre responds by attacking their capital cities and encouraging these states to sign up due to the increased pressure.

    Due to the new approach being adopted, Blofeld alienates even his most devoted followers, including Mr. White. We can presume from both CR and QOS, that White was more involved in the business management side of things, therefore, his revolt against Spectre’s current stance makes sense. At the end of the film M and Q are able to stop Nine Eyes from going live and Bond is able to capture Blofeld. By arresting Blofeld he is publically exposed. Blofeld has constantly worked in the shadows with his organisation quietly building momentum and sway within the world. By exposing him and the scale of his operation the whole world can see the influence and power he had.

    What do we think? Are there any gaps that people can see that need filling?
  • Posts: 4,325
    Maybe Blofeld, sorry Oberhauser was just lying, and Spectre really weren't involved in the events of CR-SF?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Spectre is only now seen as having been involved in the events of CR-SF because they got the Blofeld/Spectre rights back and Mendes wanted it to be that way come SP. Before that, Le Chiffre and Greene were part of QUANTUM and Silva was simply a rogue agent. Why would Blofeld lie about Spectre's involvement?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    For me everything made perfect sense that was told in Spectre regarding the organisation and its involvement in the 3 previous movies.

    Furthermore, it's only a small part in the movie, besides finding that tape of Vesper, the photos in the destroyed MI6 building and some dialogue, Spectre has its own story.

    You could even easily re-edit the movie omitting those things.

    That's why I think, they did a marvelous job.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Their involvement in SF makes much more sense (and helps explain the ridiculousness that is the Silva escape scene), but their presence in CR and QoS isn't needed, unless they've evolved from QUANTUM to Spectre, or the former was merely an arm of the group.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Why would Blofeld lie about Spectre's involvement?

    As some have already speculated, it could be to simply twist the knife into Bond just a little bit more, so to speak. He already has the whole "step-brother" thing in play with Bond, and putting it out there that all of the other pain that Bond has been inflicted with over the past three films has been his doing is basically just a case of piling on.

    I don't know if I go for that explanation, as it's clear that they meant for SPECTRE to be behind it all, at least within the confines of the story that Spectre is telling. But, at the same time, I think that the filmmakers at the time of Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall meant for their events and villains to be what they are depicted as in their films, not having been left open to be folded into something unknown later on. Given the damage that Spectre does to Craig's other three films, I tend to choose to discount the events of Spectre because, firstly, it's a poor film and, secondly, doing so maintains the integrity of Craig's first three films without Spectre's retcon of them being able to take away from their impact.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    That's why I don't go for it, either: it's obvious that their plan with SP was to reflect that Spectre had been involved in everything since the start of CR. Again, it only helps in explaining things a bit for me in SF, nothing more.
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