Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree, but most of them were with an ageing Moore. Dalton didn't even have any fisticuffs if I recall (except for the opening one in the Jeep with the infamous headbutt). Not sure why. Maybe he didn't like fighting on film.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited June 2016 Posts: 2,722
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree, but most of them were with an ageing Moore. Dalton didn't even have any fisticuffs if I recall (except for the opening one in the Jeep with the infamous headbutt). Not sure why. Maybe he didn't like fighting on film.

    He had the fight with Necros on the plane in TLD as well as a headbutt (again!) with Dario in LTK - not to mention an entire bar room brawl in that film too. I think he did pretty well - he was no Craig obviously - but that was when cinema stars notably stepped up in to the hand-to-hand combat courtesy of the Bourne influence.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree, but most of them were with an ageing Moore. Dalton didn't even have any fisticuffs if I recall (except for the opening one in the Jeep with the infamous headbutt). Not sure why. Maybe he didn't like fighting on film.

    He had the fight with Necros on the plane in TLD as well as a headbutt (again!) with Dario in LTK - not to mention an entire bar room brawl in that film too. I think he did pretty well - he was no Craig obviously - but that was when cinema stars notably stepped up in to the hand-to-hand combat courtesy of the Bourne influence.
    True, but Dalton had no 'one on one' standing fight with anyone that I can remember, which is something even Moore did more than once. I'm not sure why this is the case. I can't remember right now whether Moore had any 'one on one's in the Glen films either, come to think of it. They were more group fights or Moore against many. Perhaps this was a Glen hangup.

    I agree that Bourne had a major influence on the Bond fights in the Craig era. The Brosnan era ones were very uneventful, except for the Alec one in GE which was a momentary & temporary return to form.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I found the Dalton fights to be pretty damned lame. Not his forte I guess (Moore's either, yet we had some entertaining, if not great ones with him; TeeHee, the belly dancer's room, Sandor).

    I liked Dalton's fight with Necros. That's a standout. In fact Glen is similar to Hamilton. They are my least favourite directors of the pre-Brosnan era. They both do suspense well, Glen has a better feel for delivering a cohesive narrative - but is unremarkable. Hamilton does the humour better but has less interest in pacing. Moore's fights are devoid of tension - or they promise plenty and deliver nothing (Baron Samedi, Jaws) I guess he gets to use his cunning - it just shouldn't be all the time. But Moore's Bond is rarely a physical threat in any of his outings. He does stretch his legs in FYEO which I like. But by the time Octopussy rolls around the wide shots start piling up and the stuntmen are working over time.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    I agree, but most of them were with an ageing Moore. Dalton didn't even have any fisticuffs if I recall (except for the opening one in the Jeep with the infamous headbutt). Not sure why. Maybe he didn't like fighting on film.

    He had the fight with Necros on the plane in TLD as well as a headbutt (again!) with Dario in LTK - not to mention an entire bar room brawl in that film too. I think he did pretty well - he was no Craig obviously - but that was when cinema stars notably stepped up in to the hand-to-hand combat courtesy of the Bourne influence.

    I'd go even further back and say the "fisticuffs" really began with Bond vs. Grant and that's still the gold standard and holds it's own against any of the Bourne fights any day. Connery had his brawls as did Rog and Laz(he was pretty good), Dalton got in a few in TLD i.e PTS, and the jailhouse brawl, and of course the mentioned cargo net fight with Necros.

    In spite of it being one of my top three faves, one of LTK flaws is that it lacks a really good one on one fight scene or struggle to the death, it's usually just a few punches and it over if that. There is the Wavekrest warehouse showdown with Kilifer and the escape from the Wavekrest and the brief fight with the seaplane pilots, then the barroom brawl but that one he floored Dario with one punch(could possibly argue that Daltons Bond was the toughest, all he needs is one punch or headbutt lol), and there's the small bit with the "ninjas". The final fight with Sanchez on the back of the tanker is over too fast for my liking but they both come out of the crash looking all banged up that almost makes it seem like they had a far more brutal through down.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Birdleson wrote: »
    And this Bourne fights are some bullshit. Fast cutting, minimal actual interaction, little substance.

    Craig has some of the best fights - the crane fight and stairwell fights in CR are excellent. The way Deakins shoots the Skyfall fight with Patrice in Shanghai is glorious - and uses other tricks rather than swift editing. And the Hinx fight is one of my favourite parts of Spectre. Connery has three quality fights - Red Grant (still my favourite fight scene in the series), Oddjob (outgunned Connery, great setting with a quality and ironic climax) and the fight in Osato Chemicals (using the couch is a weird and wild touch.)
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    And this Bourne fights are some bullshit. Fast cutting, minimal actual interaction, little substance.

    Yes!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I don't like the odd job vs Bond fight that much. The only interesting thing about it is odd job racing down the steps to get to Bond with the click ticking. The fight itself is rubbish. On another note Bond vs Peter Franks is underrated.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I tend to find the widely loved crane fight/parkour chase/embassy scene in CR a bit overlong to be honest.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @Birdleson, we wouldn't have the stairwell fight in CR (as choreographed) or the Slate fight (which I believe you like) without Bourne. The latter in particular is a direct rip off from Bourne Supremacy & Ultimatum.
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    Posts: 189
    Goldfinger is overrated. (hides behind shield)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Goldfinger is overrated. (hides behind shield)
    Agreed, and joins you behind shield while hurriedly building bomb shelter.
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    Posts: 189
    bondjames wrote: »
    Goldfinger is overrated. (hides behind shield)
    Agreed, and joins you behind shield while hurriedly building bomb shelter.

    *waits for the purists that will come while aiding you and waiting for fellow Bond heretics*

    Honestly though, while I do give it credit for having started Bondmania and living up to the legend, there are other films that are, IMO, much more enjoyable. (DAF)

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Honestly though, while I do give it credit for having started Bondmania and living up to the legend, there are other films that are, IMO, much more enjoyable. (DAF)
    Agreed on all counts.
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    Posts: 189
    Here's two that may or may not count as controversial:

    I wish for a Bond story where Bond dies for real, no fake deaths, no cover-ups, no lucky breaks, just a definitive, bloody end for his career.

    Also, a Bond who doesn't drink, smoke, or womanize. (The closest we got? Dalton.)
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited June 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Also, a Bond who doesn't drink, smoke, or womanize.

    So basically, not Bond?
  • Posts: 9,847
    A few of mine though I am sure I have posted a few of these before

    From Russia with love is Connery's best film
    Goldfinger is overated
    Lazenby really isn't that bad and had he done Diamonds are forever I feel he would of been herald as a great 007
    Moore could do the dark serious stuff as evident by a large portion of his films
    Moore should of done two less ending with For Your eyes only
    Dalton in octopussy would of still whiped Connery at the box office
    Connery should not of been bond in 1983
    Dalton should of stayed on at least for goldeneye
    The issue with the Brosnan films is simple they got rid of Janus way to early had ourmov been the main villain of Goldeneye and Trevellyan the villain of Die another day with Janus being 90's Spectre I think his films would of been stronger honestly.
    Casino Royale and Quantum of solace were perfect end of discussion
    Craig needs to do two more films
    I am shocked bond has had only 1 threeway in his 24 films seriously 1 how in the swinging 60's and funky 70's did he not have more hell with the way the porn industry is now how has he not had one in the 90's 00's and 10's I know it is a "family friendly franchise" (about a brutual killer womanizer and spy but let's not go there) but threeways becoming more and more "mainstream" it baffles my mind...
    Liam Neeson is the only actor I am truely sad was never and likely will never be 007
    If Craig doesn't do one more bond film only four actors should be considered for his replacement
    Michael Fassbender
    Tom Hardy
    Tom Hiddleston
    Cillian Murphy

    And honestly if any of those four are cast I will be very excited for bond 25

    Waltz is an ok Blofeld
    Denise Richards is actually underated... Sure her acting is bad but there are quite a few annoying Bond girls Stacey Sutfon Titanny Case etc that how everyone puts her and her character at the bottom of the list when at least she is compatenet and not screeching is beyond me

    I hate the original titles we got even skyfall feels bland to me.


    That is about it for now oh wait one more

    Spectre shouldn't of Come back till bond number 7 personally I would of just wrapped up the quantum story line and that is it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Goldfinger isn t overrated. It is almost perfect.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Goldfinger isn t overrated. It is almost perfect.

    I think you misspelled Goldeneye there. ;)
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,010
    Here's two that may or may not count as controversial:

    I wish for a Bond story where Bond dies for real, no fake deaths, no cover-ups, no lucky breaks, just a definitive, bloody end for his career.

    Also, a Bond who doesn't drink, smoke, or womanize. (The closest we got? Dalton.)

    So you want him to stop doing the things that make him Bond and then kill him off....?

    oookay....
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Here's two that may or may not count as controversial:

    I wish for a Bond story where Bond dies for real, no fake deaths, no cover-ups, no lucky breaks, just a definitive, bloody end for his career.

    Also, a Bond who doesn't drink, smoke, or womanize. (The closest we got? Dalton.)

    So you want him to stop doing the things that make him Bond and then kill him off....?

    oookay....

    To be fair, at that point Bond would rather be dead.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Maybe not controversial but it is something occurs to me periodically; Bond movies, as I knew and loved them growing up, ended with MOONRAKER (the only one that of those first 11 that I don't absolutely love). That magic, that weirdness, that unindentifiable Bond vibe was gone. Is it Adam leaving, or the lack of Barry of in some of the '80s adventures? Or is it the flat, almost bland look and style of the Glen movies? Was it me becoming a legal adult and heading off to college in 1980? Probably a combination of all of those things. And sometimes a great thing just runs it's course.

    Some of the later ones, specifically Craig's first three, may appear higher in my rankings than DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER or THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, they re just better films. But in my heart they don't compare.

    I can appreciate your point. Personally I'd extend it to TLD as being the last 'proper' Bond film. Despite much of the same cast and crew LTK was different in too many ways to feel 'proper'.

    The fact that TLD was the last film to have significant involvement by Cubby is significant I feel (he was ill during LTK and spent most of his time in California).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,010
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is controversial.

    I'd have called it something else, but yes it is...

  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    I don't know how controversial it is but i want Bond to go back to the formula forever.

    Bond gets, his mission, gets his martinis, sleeping eith some women, saves tge world and ends up with the main Bond girl.

    They can have a very few alterations like Die Another Day when he first went rouge but not for a long time M should chsnge his mind almost right away and give him his mission and get hid gadgets from Q.

    So ofcourse with a new actor but i want to go back to the Brosnsn era even if the scripts weren't the best
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited June 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Szonana wrote: »

    They can have a very few alterations like Die Another Day when he first went rouge...

    ogw1n9.gif
  • Posts: 676
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Maybe not controversial but it is something occurs to me periodically; Bond movies, as I knew and loved them growing up, ended with MOONRAKER (the only one that of those first 11 that I don't absolutely love). That magic, that weirdness, that unindentifiable Bond vibe was gone. Is it Adam leaving, or the lack of Barry of in some of the '80s adventures?
    Don't forget the departure of Bernard Lee after MR, too.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Here's mine: YOLT (the movie) is the most recycled Bond movie ever.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Szonana wrote: »

    They can have a very few alterations like Die Another Day when he first went rouge...

    ogw1n9.gif


    but just for the first 15 minutes of the film latter we have to go back to normality.

  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Those scenes of Bond being detained are among Brosnan's best.

    It's just sad that they had to be interrupted by such a horrible song.
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    edited June 2016 Posts: 189
    Here's two that may or may not count as controversial:

    I wish for a Bond story where Bond dies for real, no fake deaths, no cover-ups, no lucky breaks, just a definitive, bloody end for his career.

    Also, a Bond who doesn't drink, smoke, or womanize. (The closest we got? Dalton.)

    So you want him to stop doing the things that make him Bond and then kill him off....?

    oookay....

    Well, there's more to the "killing off" part. I want that unlucky Bond to be BROKEN. Utterly. (think the stress on him in YOLT times 100), and at the very end he wins at last, then he gets killed off.

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