Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I love both eras.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384

    There's only one way to find out !
  • Posts: 15,124
    Here's one controversial opinion: I think the heavy use of machine gun by Bond during the Brosnan era was brought, consciously or not, to compensate his relative lack of menace.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That sounds plausible.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I don't think so, to be honest.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Irrespective, it was annoying and disappointing. I'm glad we don't have to resort to such compensations these days, although I must say that QoS poster of Craig holding the machine gun is an unwelcome throwback.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    jake24 wrote: »
    I love both eras.

    Me too.
    jake24 wrote: »
    I don't think so, to be honest.
    I think his machine gunning was yet another product of the time. That was what 90's action was. Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2016 Posts: 10,591
    jake24 wrote: »
    I love both eras.

    Me too.
    jake24 wrote: »
    I don't think so, to be honest.
    I think his machine gunning was yet another product of the time. That was what 90's action was. Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.
    Good point. I never sensed a lack of menace with Brosnan. In fact, I'd say he is most menacing during Elektra's death scene. It's great to see Bond loose his sh*t once in a while.
  • Posts: 15,124
    jake24 wrote: »
    I love both eras.

    Me too.
    jake24 wrote: »
    I don't think so, to be honest.
    I think his machine gunning was yet another product of the time. That was what 90's action was. Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.
    Moore does use one in OP. When he is older incidentally.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.

    Except in TSWLM.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That was in massive combat between two forces, not alone again an army.

    I clearly missed the e-mail stating the rules on when and where a Bond actor can use a machine gun.

    For what it's worth I can live with it in GE (although could lose the use of it in the archives) but TND's from finale is utterly awful.

    TND is a cracking action romp but the final reel is pedestrian Seagal/Lundgren/Statham dross of the highest order.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That visceral pretitles CR thrashing in the toilet (the first 00 kill) showed us there was a new game in town (a man who could credibly do it with his bare hands), and not a moment too soon.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.

    Except in TSWLM.

    My point is that it wasn't a staple of his tenure as it was with Brosnan's.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.

    Except in TSWLM.

    My point is that it wasn't a staple of his tenure as it was with Brosnan's.

    He also used one in OP. In both cases the scenario was similar to Brosnan's uses, a battle had broken out so he picked one up.

    If Bond was using a machine gun in the gunbarrel or running around with one constantly I'd understand but I never had a problem with Brosnan's use of it. I liked it actually. That he could improvise and was an expert with a few weapons added to his credibility, made him seem more highly trained.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Agreed. It was the scripts for his films that were Brosnan's issue. The machine gun use was fine, bar the one handed usage in TND.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Moore wasn't a tough guy either, but they felt no need to give him a machine gun in the 70's.

    Except in TSWLM.

    My point is that it wasn't a staple of his tenure as it was with Brosnan's.

    He also used one in OP. In both cases the scenario was similar to Brosnan's uses, a battle had broken out so he picked one up.

    If Bond was using a machine gun in the gunbarrel or running around with one constantly I'd understand but I never had a problem with Brosnan's use of it. I liked it actually. That he could improvise and was an expert with a few weapons added to his credibility, made him seem more highly trained.

    I like Brosnan's use of machine guns as well. I was never trying to say anything against it, I was just pointing out that Brosnan's frequent use of them was a product of the time period in which his films were made; machine guns being popular in 90's action movies.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think a big difference between Roger's films and Brosnan's films (looking at them as an adult and someone who's now been a Bond fan for a fair while), was the attitudes they took towards AMERICAN culture.

    Roger's films were often pretty silly in terms of their humour, but they nearly always had a sense of Britishness about them. The humour of Roger's films (strangers looking on in shock) was also popular in British comedies at the time. If any Americans showed up, they were usually deliberate stereotypes or parodies. Brosnan's filmspandered to US audiences too much.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think a big difference between Roger's films and Brosnan's films (looking at them as an adult and someone who's now been a Bond fan for a fair while), was the attitudes they took towards AMERICAN culture.

    Roger's films were often pretty silly in terms of their humour, but they nearly always had a sense of Britishness about them. The humour of Roger's films (strangers looking on in shock) was also popular in British comedies at the time. If any Americans showed up, they were usually deliberate stereotypes or parodies. Brosnan's filmspandered to US audiences too much.

    I think so too. One should also keep in mind the influence that films such as Mission Impossible had on the franchise throughout the 90s.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,189
    GBF wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think a big difference between Roger's films and Brosnan's films (looking at them as an adult and someone who's now been a Bond fan for a fair while), was the attitudes they took towards AMERICAN culture.

    Roger's films were often pretty silly in terms of their humour, but they nearly always had a sense of Britishness about them. The humour of Roger's films (strangers looking on in shock) was also popular in British comedies at the time. If any Americans showed up, they were usually deliberate stereotypes or parodies. Brosnan's filmspandered to US audiences too much.

    I think so too. One should also keep in mind the influence that films such as Mission Impossible had on the franchise throughout the 90s.

    Indeed.

    To be fair, I think this "Americanisation" was in LTK a bit too. It was just upped in the Brosnan films to the point when American-isms were part of the dialogue.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think a big difference between Roger's films and Brosnan's films (looking at them as an adult and someone who's now been a Bond fan for a fair while), was the attitudes they took towards AMERICAN culture.

    Roger's films were often pretty silly in terms of their humour, but they nearly always had a sense of Britishness about them. The humour of Roger's films (strangers looking on in shock) was also popular in British comedies at the time. If any Americans showed up, they were usually deliberate stereotypes or parodies. Brosnan's filmspandered to US audiences too much.

    I think so too. One should also keep in mind the influence that films such as Mission Impossible had on the franchise throughout the 90s.

    Indeed.

    To be fair, I think this "Americanisation" was in LTK a bit too. It was just upped in the Brosnan films to the point when American-isms were part of the dialogue.


    To be fair, American cinema had always influenced the Bond franchise since the Roger Moore era:

    Live and Let Die (Blaxploitation)
    Moonraker (Star Wars)
    Licence to Kill (Miami Vice)
    Brosnan era (American action movies such as Mission impossible)
    Quantum of Solace (Bourne)
    Skyfall and Spectre (Nolan's Batman films (at least visually))

  • Posts: 11,189
    I think it possibly went a bit further in the Brosnan films though.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think it possibly went a bit further in the Brosnan films though.

    'Time for a station break' for example. So appalling a sentence for a British character to utter it's actually offensive.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Agreed, far to much of an Americanism, for a British character.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think it possibly went a bit further in the Brosnan films though.

    'Time for a station break' for example. So appalling a sentence for a British character to utter it's actually offensive.

    "Next time I'll take the elevator"
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Brosnan sometimes sounds american anyway, like when he said "I gave him the limp".

    Or when Natalya asks him another word for bottom and he responds " What?!"
  • Posts: 11,189
    His accent is a mix of Irish/English and American.
  • Posts: 233
    I don't think Americanisation is really anything new. I've read a few books on Sixties cinema recently, and they made an interesting point that the cinematic Bond was a very American style hero from the beginning. After all, they cast a working-class tough guy as Fleming's refined Englishman
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Roger's films were often pretty silly in terms of their humour, but they nearly always had a sense of Britishness about them. The humour of Roger's films (strangers looking on in shock) was also popular in British comedies at the time. If any Americans showed up, they were usually deliberate stereotypes or parodies. Brosnan's filmspandered to US audiences too much.
    Fully agree with you here. Not only was it the deliberate Americanization, but also the overt pandering, cliche's, pastiche, and finally outright parody (DAD) which did that era in, and not a moment too soon.

    Those hoping for a renaissance have another thing coming.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I don't think Americanisation is really anything new. I've read a few books on Sixties cinema recently, and they made an interesting point that the cinematic Bond was a very American style hero from the beginning. After all, they cast a working-class tough guy as Fleming's refined Englishman

    There was enough to appeal to American audiences but the films on the whole felt like they were made in the UK.

    I know it's kind of ironic considering the producers were American, but the films always had an English style about them. They gently mocked American culture rather than putting it on a pedestal.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "... it's merely an elevator, or should I say Lift !" ;)
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