Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 6,601
    They did in part. The villian and his island is spot on Bond. The difference is that the budgets later grew and gadgets were introduced. But what I´m really talking about is the standard that GF set. It´s not my favorite but that´s how I think a Bond movie is to be made (but it can be largely modified of course).

    I think the problem with this option is - that Bond is the longest running franchise and as such doesn't have anything to compare it with. IMO its only natural, that over such a long period of time, the films MUST change - no way around it, as otherwise interest is likely do fade, as there is only so much you can do with the same ingredients. The mix has to change from time to time for the films to survive.

    @identigraph - what about CR?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I think he was just talking about the first 20 films.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    Not to say that DaltonCraig007 doesn't have extreme opinions that he loves to shout about to us all.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't hate anyone for disliking Moore or disagreeing with me... but I love a heated debate but with respect :) There's no rudeness in my posts ! if there is, I apologise !
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Not to say that DaltonCraig007 doesn't have extreme opinions that he loves to shout about to us all.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't hate anyone for disliking Moore or disagreeing with me... but I love a heated debate but with respect :) There's no rudeness in my posts ! if there is, I apologise !

    Well, at least you're apologizing ahead of time. I've found no extreme rudeness in any of your posts (minor, yes, but only insofar as a cockroach is angry at another cockroach), but it's bound to happen eventually. Everybody flies off the handle at some point.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    First of all, because something is in a book doesn´t make it better. I still do not like drama.

    What I count as Bondian is what I love and recognise from the movie series that I have watched so many times that it´s impossible to even count the viewings. The books I see as a completely different thing. I respect them as original but don´t understand why Bond is supposed to follow those old outings. Fleming sold the film rights after all.

    As an example, AC/DC´s first album in Australia was vastly different to their later outings, but it was the original. After that they have had a sound that they are recognised and loved for. It is the so called "AC/DC-sound". It wouldn´t be too bright to say "Back In Black is unAC/DC (if you understand the word I made up)", the original was different and therefore only that is the real AC/DC. Everything after that is not the true AC/DC. Perhaps not a fair comparision, but it was the first one I could come up with.

    And the Batman movie, "The Dark Knight" I don´t like. Too much trying to be modern and gritty with too much drama, dark lens and whatever. It was also too long. Transporter 3 was number 1, followed by the good film that is QOS. TDK was ok.

    No one said just because something is from the books it is automatically better. But it is more Bondian. It seems to me that the debate here is what constitutes Bondian or not.

    According to you its about a bloke (preferably Roger) with loads of gadgets and one liners, who battles super villains in vast underground bases with a girl in a bikini by his side. Would that be a fair assessment of your definition of Bondian? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    As I pointed out previously the man that created Bond (hes called Ian Fleming in case youre not aware) is the only person who can say what situations and characters are permissible in Bonds world and what, therefore, constitutes being Bondian. Not you, not me, not Cubby, not Babs and sure as f*ck not P&W. All we can do is interpret Bonds world and adapt it as we see fit.
    Cubby chose to interpret and adapt it by having lots of gags and gadgets which has now gone on for so long that people like you may think that it has evolved to become the norm and therefore is now Bondian but it is not. Its Cubbyian, EONian maybe, Mooreian perhaps but not Bondian because only Fleming has that right so for me the words Bondian and Flemingian are interchangeable.

    Your AC/DC example merely highlights why you are wrong. What you say about the band is right but that is AC/DC making their own music so they can do whatever they want and whether you like it or not you have no option to call it the AC/DC sound.

    If Fleming had lived another 20 years and had written a load more Bond books full of gadgets, double taking pigeons, invisible cars and women who activate solar panels with their arse then you might have a point.

    But he didn’t.

    That was all done by EON. So in your example its as if AC/DC broke up and then reformed with totally new band members. Would the music they made be AC/DC or just some blokes doing what they think AC/DC should be?

    Theres nothing wrong in liking the Moore gagfest type of Bond film best but please don’t refer to your preferences as being Bondian when they clearly not. If you say youre a fan of the Mooreian approach then that’s fine (I am myself on occasion) – its when you say hovercraft gondolas and battles in space are more Bondian than CRs pretty faithful adaption of Flemings work that we have a problem.

    Probably wasting my time though trying to instigate a battle of logic with someone who rates Transporter 3 above TDK!
    Coming on these forums never fails to open your eyes as to what an insane world we live in (thats only partially aimed at you DaltonCraig ;) )
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082

    No one said just because something is from the books it is automatically better. But it is more Bondian. It seems to me that the debate here is what constitutes Bondian or not.
    Well atleast at CBn, I said that I don´t like what happens to Leiter in LTK. Someone answered: Don´t forget it´s in the LALD book. Same at other forums.
    According to you its about a bloke (preferably Roger) with loads of gadgets and one liners, who battles super villains in vast underground bases with a girl in a bikini by his side. Would that be a fair assessment of your definition of Bondian? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    To quote George in OHMSS: "You gave a very accurate description."
    As I pointed out previously the man that created Bond (hes called Ian Fleming in case youre not aware) is the only person who can say what situations and characters are permissible in Bonds world and what, therefore, constitutes being Bondian. Not you, not me, not Cubby, not Babs and sure as f*ck not P&W. All we can do is interpret Bonds world and adapt it as we see fit.
    Cubby chose to interpret and adapt it by having lots of gags and gadgets which has now gone on for so long that people like you may think that it has evolved to become the norm and therefore is now Bondian but it is not. Its Cubbyian, EONian maybe, Mooreian perhaps but not Bondian because only Fleming has that right so for me the words Bondian and Flemingian are interchangeable.

    You make a very clear point here, and I understand why you think the way you do. But the difference between you and me is that I see Flemingian and Bondian as 2 different things. LTK is often said to be Flemingesque (at least Dalton´s performace), but I find it to be, sorry for saying this again, unbondian. Since I only know the movies, that´s my reality. That´s why I make all the claims I make.
    So in your example its as if AC/DC broke up and then reformed with totally new band members. Would the music they made be AC/DC or just some blokes doing what they think AC/DC should be?

    If they officially got the name, they would be AC/DC to me, although not the same old AC/DC.
    Theres nothing wrong in liking the Moore gagfest type of Bond film best but please don’t refer to your preferences as being Bondian when they clearly not. If you say youre a fan of the Mooreian approach then that’s fine (I am myself on occasion) – its when you say hovercraft gondolas and battles in space are more Bondian than CRs pretty faithful adaption of Flemings work that we have a problem.

    I think we have.
    Probably wasting my time though trying to instigate a battle of logic with someone who rates Transporter 3 above TDK!

    I´m completely honest, I deeply prefer it to TDK, which I would never watch alone voluntarily. I still consider it to be ok, and the first half is pretty good. I like the Batman gadgets and Batmobile. The drama drags the movie down, just like CR.
    The best Batman movie is probably the first or Batman Forever. Batman & Robin was funny too.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    You make a very clear point here, and I understand why you think the way you do. But the difference between you and me is that I see Flemingian and Bondian as 2 different things. LTK is often said to be Flemingesque (at least Dalton´s performace), but I find it to be, sorry for saying this again, unbondian. Since I only know the movies, that´s my reality. That´s why I make all the claims I make.

    I dont see from where you are getting the authority to define what the word Bondian means except from yourself. I'm taking my definition from Fleming which I would say gives me the moral edge (and I think a copyright court would see it that way as well), particularly when you are happy to state with such alacrity you are so ingorant of Flemings work.
    When you state something is unbondian the rest of us take that as being unbondian in the general meaning as we understand it not the warped sense you mean which is 'not being akin to an Austin Powers film.

    If they officially got the name, they would be AC/DC to me, although not the same old AC/DC.

    Thats the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
    So if EON sell the rights to Universal tomorrow and they decide that the next Bond should be a black lesbian in a wheelchair who now lives in Timbuctoo and rather than a licence to kill has a licence to process asylum seeker applications, the film should be directed by Michael Bay and have more CGI than Avatar then that would still be Bond to you just not the same old Bond?

    Dont know why I'm even asking the question. You'd be first in the queue to see it.
    I´m completely honest, I deeply prefer it to TDK, which I would never watch alone voluntarily. I still consider it to be ok, and the first half is pretty good. I like the Batman gadgets and Batmobile. The drama drags the movie down, just like CR.
    The best Batman movie is probably the first or Batman Forever. Batman & Robin was funny too.
    Jesus Christ - first Transporter and now Batman & Robin. If poor taste in films was a crime you'd be Harold Shipman.

    Even though I know the answer before it comes - just where do you rate DAD 007RogerMoore?
  • Posts: 1,082

    I dont see from where you are getting the authority to define what the word Bondian means except from yourself. I'm taking my definition from Fleming which I would say gives me the moral edge (and I think a copyright court would see it that way as well), particularly when you are happy to state with such alacrity you are so ingorant of Flemings work.
    When you state something is unbondian the rest of us take that as being unbondian in the general meaning as we understand it not the warped sense you mean which is 'not being akin to an Austin Powers film.

    Ok, I get your point. Can you suggest another word I can use instead?

    If they officially got the name, they would be AC/DC to me, although not the same old AC/DC.

    Thats the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
    So if EON sell the rights to Universal tomorrow and they decide that the next Bond should be a black lesbian in a wheelchair who now lives in Timbuctoo and rather than a licence to kill has a licence to process asylum seeker applications, the film should be directed by Michael Bay and have more CGI than Avatar then that would still be Bond to you just not the same old Bond?

    Dont know why I'm even asking the question. You'd be first in the queue to see it.

    Well officially it would still be a Bond film, wouldn´t it? But it would probably be unbondian, from both your point of view and mine.
    I´m completely honest, I deeply prefer it to TDK, which I would never watch alone voluntarily. I still consider it to be ok, and the first half is pretty good. I like the Batman gadgets and Batmobile. The drama drags the movie down, just like CR.
    The best Batman movie is probably the first or Batman Forever. Batman & Robin was funny too.
    Jesus Christ - first Transporter and now Batman & Robin. If poor taste in films was a crime you'd be Harold Shipman.

    Even though I know the answer before it comes - just where do you rate DAD 007RogerMoore?

    Probably at fifth place on my top 22-list. It´s really good, and feels like my definition of Bond (I won´t say Bondian).

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    [

    Even though I know the answer before it comes - just where do you rate DAD 007RogerMoore?

    Probably at fifth place on my top 22-list. It´s really good, and feels like my definition of Bond (I won´t say Bondian).
    5th. I'm reading that right am I. Sure you didnt miss off a 2 before it? 25th below the other 22 and NSNA and CR67 would be understandable (although thats forgetting the Barry Nelson CR and the unreleased SF which in actuality puts DAD in 27th).

    Yeah lets agree to go with 'your definition of Bond' rather than 'Bondian' just to make it easier for people to understand. Because your idea of Bondian could esaily confuse most people meaning, as it does, totally against everything Bond should be about.
  • Posts: 1,082
    I meant DAD at fifth place. It destroys CR and QOS IMO. And I will say "my definition of Bond" from now on, to avoid more arguments about what is Bond and what isn´t.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Now to a controversial opinion:

    I hope that I will get the pleasure to direct and write the screenplay for Bond24. If I do, the film will probably turn out this way:



  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    The best Batman movie is ...or Batman Forever. Batman & Robin was funny too.

    (Keep in mind, the three dots mean I cut something out)

    (Sarcasm) Yeah! Rubber nipples, a car going up a wall, ice puns and homosexual Batman and Robin!!!! (Sarcasm ends)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I meant DAD at fifth place. It destroys CR and QOS IMO. And I will say "my definition of Bond" from now on, to avoid more arguments about what is Bond and what isn´t.

    Even the Wizard is at a loss to comment here. No words I can write can condemn 007RogerMoore any more than he does himself with that statement.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Well, watch my movie and you will understand that I´m the man that Babs and Mike should use for the upcoming Bond films.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Now to a controversial opinion:

    I hope that I will get the pleasure to direct and write the screenplay for Bond24. If I do, the film will probably turn out this way:



    I got 38 seconds into this, and the atrocious voices made me stop and post this. If you were to make a Bond film like the first 38 seconds of this GOD WOULD COME DOWN FROM THE HEAVENS AND RIP YOUR HEAD OFF, EVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would then promptly continue where he left off with whatever he was going to do with you.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Watch the Q-scene and the scene with the villian. Skip the rest. They start at 01:45 and 06:05. Then you will understand my greatness.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    I meant DAD at fifth place. It destroys CR and QOS IMO. And I will say "my definition of Bond" from now on, to avoid more arguments about what is Bond and what isn´t.

    Even the Wizard is at a loss to comment here. No words I can write can condemn 007RogerMoore any more than he does himself with that statement.

    DAD is also in my top 8.

  • Posts: 1,082
    I could also see DaltonCraig007 direct a Bond movie. But I don´t see why B&W haven´t contacted me, yet. If anyone knows how to make a Bond movie, it is me.
  • Posts: 1,082
    And DAD and TSWLM are the ones fighting for the fifth place. They are Bond movies with the right tone and attitude, plus good Bond actors.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,715
    I'd love to direct a Bond movie !! But I think 95% of the members here would kill me after seeing the end result... IMO if I directed one of the films, it'd be a mix of YOLT, TMWTGG, FRWL and TLD.
  • Posts: 154
    Take out YOLT and I would like that movie. I have a little problem with YOLT.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    VBM398 wrote:
    Take out YOLT and I would like that movie. I have a little problem with YOLT.

    By YOLT I meant the scenery, cinematography and final battle scene. That's what I'd take from that film.
  • Posts: 1,082
    My movie would have been a mix between YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR and DAD, so atleast 95% would kill me too. But I would have loved it myself.

    I would have a german villian who says "I intend to destroy the world, Mr. Bond."
    Bond would have a laser watch, a gadget-laden car and perhaps a Q-boat and Q-motorcycle. And several girls with big ¤%#/¤ in bikinis.
    The villian would have a base with mono rail and guards in the same kind of uniform. The villian would also have a strong henchman, like Jaws or Oddjob.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    If Craig doesn´t wanna do it, perhaps I can persuade Brosnan to come back at the age of 61? He doesn´t look that old...
  • Posts: 4,813
    Here's a controversial opinion: although (in my opinion) it didn't work the first time, I would be totally open to a Bond actor playing the role non-consecutively. Ex: Brosnan coming back for one, or a few years after we get a new Bond, Craig does one more. Could be fun to do that every now and then
  • Posts: 1,082
    Yeah. A pity Brosnan didn´t do one in 2010.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Yeah. A pity Brosnan didn´t do one in 2010.

    Would have thought you'd have suggested Roger could still do a job in his 80s.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    No, that would have been to much. 61 is too much really, but it hurts me that Brosnan only did 4. He could have started in 1987 and ended in 2008, doing 11 movies.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Would have thought you'd have suggested Roger could still do a job in his 80s.

    That reminds me-- I once saw a hilarious photoshop of Roger Moore (circa 2002) on the Die Another Day poster, but I'll be damned if I can't find it now.
    Anyone know the one I mean? Anyone HAVE it?
  • Posts: 1,492
    Jesus Christ - first Transporter and now Batman & Robin. If poor taste in films was a crime you'd be Harold Shipman.

    ?

    =)) =)) =))

    I just spat out my tea.

    I strongly suggest you try the novels 007RogerMoore. They are quite cheap on kindle. They are some of the most exciting, sharp and evocative books I have read, I can guarantee you will look at the films in a different way.

    The sixties villains and girls are given background and motivation in the books which just doesnt come across in the films.

    The novel Thunderball is a good one to start with.
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