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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    But Bourne was originally modelled on Bond though right?
    Same initials, government-trained weapons etc.

    The main difference is that Bond is more sophisticated.

    Bond might have influenced Ludlum (I haven't read the books, so I can't say for certain), but it can't be a coincidence that of all the combinations of initials, Ludlum chooses 'J' and 'B'. But Craig's Bond is in turn greatly influenced by the Bourne films, even down to the editing style of QOS.

    I have read the Bourne Identity and it does a hell of a lot Major...Happy New Year to you by the way !

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    There you have the advantage on me. I have only seen the 1988 tv mini series, the first 3 Damon films and The Bourne Legacy (and i've played The Bourne Conspiracy, if it can be counted).

    And while it's still a little early for it here in Wales, happy new year to you, too.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    There you have the advantage on me. I have only seen the 1988 tv mini series, the first 3 Damon films and The Bourne Legacy (and i've played The Bourne Conspiracy, if it can be counted).

    And while it's still a little early for it here in Wales, happy new year to you, too.

    Haha early in Wales ? Major im English,im just pre-empting in case i cant wish it to you later...

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Hes also the first and only Bond to date who ups the badassery to head butts...in both his films!



    Connery did it first, in NSNA.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Hes also the first and only Bond to date who ups the badassery to head butts...in both his films!




    Connery did it first, in NSNA.
    Bravo Dr Thunderfinger...

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2017 Posts: 13,978
    NSNA is Kevin McClory coming back for his sloppy seconds. Not only that, but it is a giant "**** you" from McClory and Connery to the actual Bond films. All mention of NSNA should be outlawed, and to be sure, all copies should be burned. Dreadful film, it makes QOS look Bondian by comparison.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    When Bond smiles at the end of SPECTRE, behind the wheel of the Aston Martin, with Madeline at his side, he may not utter the words, but the subtext is as clear as crystal, he's thinking:
    "We have all the time in the world"...
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    "Room service ?....a bottle of champagne.....no,for one".....screams Fleming's Bond.

    Great moment.

    I'm going to be criticised for this but I wonder whether Dalton's Bond occasionally felt too "nice". Lacked that authentically rough streak the character needed. Craig managed to get it.

    Tell that to Necros while Bond cut his shoe.

    Tell that to Killifer when Bond fed him to the sharks.

    Tell that to Sanches after Bond gave him a light.

    Whatever Daltons credibility as a ladies man, he had the stone cold killer thing down perfectly.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    "Room service ?....a bottle of champagne.....no,for one".....screams Fleming's Bond.

    Great moment.

    I'm going to be criticised for this but I wonder whether Dalton's Bond occasionally felt too "nice". Lacked that authentically rough streak the character needed. Craig managed to get it.

    Tell that to Necros while Bond cut his shoe.

    Tell that to Killifer when Bond fed him to the sharks.

    Tell that to Sanches after Bond gave him a light.

    Whatever Daltons credibility as a ladies man, he had the stone cold killer thing down perfectly.

    Good point, but they were all villains. Connery and Moore would have done the same thing (at least in the examples you mention).

    I'd say setting up Krest and holding a knife to Lupe's neck was the coldest we've seen Dalton.

    There is something about Dalton that felt like he was acting tough as opposed to actually being tough if that makes sense. Particularly in LTK.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    Dalton seemed more of an "emotional" killer to me especially in LTK. He never felt dispassionate like Connery or Craig did.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dalton seemed more of an "emotional" killer to me especially in LTK. He never felt dispassionate like Connery or Craig did.

    I think you may have got it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bain123 agreed about Dalton "acting" rather than "being". That's what always troubled me about him since I thought he looked like Bond, and what he said about Bond was all right on; then I watched his films and was horribly disappointed.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    "Room service ?....a bottle of champagne.....no,for one".....screams Fleming's Bond.

    Great moment.

    I'm going to be criticised for this but I wonder whether Dalton's Bond occasionally felt too "nice". Lacked that authentically rough streak the character needed. Craig managed to get it.

    Tell that to Necros while Bond cut his shoe.

    Tell that to Killifer when Bond fed him to the sharks.

    Tell that to Sanches after Bond gave him a light.

    Whatever Daltons credibility as a ladies man, he had the stone cold killer thing down perfectly.

    And back then they were at least creative by how the villains were killed. Today I find it extremely disappointing: For example Bond kiling Silva with a throwing knife is an extremely unsatisfying ending to an otherwise solid villain.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @GBF, both villains and henchmen alike are rather dull anymore, I do miss the days of having truly memorable, original bad guys in the films (including an original/unique demise).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    peter wrote: »
    When Bond smiles at the end of SPECTRE, behind the wheel of the Aston Martin, with Madeline at his side, he may not utter the words, but the subtext is as clear as crystal, he's thinking:
    "We have all the time in the world"...

    This is not controversial. The line was in one of the scripts.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I'm so glad they opted to remove the line in the finished film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    Yes, I agree. I didn't feel the Bond-Swann relationship earned that line. They needed something like the barn scene in OHMSS, or the shower or clinic scene in CR, if they were really going for a serious relationship for Bond again.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dalton seemed more of an "emotional" killer to me especially in LTK. He never felt dispassionate like Connery or Craig did.

    I think you may have got it.

    One of the reasons why I never bought the "Dalton as a cold professional killer focused on the job". Yes he's intense in the role, but far more emotional than any other Bond before or after. I still it's partly the Shakespearean influence. I understand why people were taken aback by his performance after Moore's tenure.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dalton seemed more of an "emotional" killer to me especially in LTK. He never felt dispassionate like Connery or Craig did.

    Its appropriate for Bond in LTK to be a more '' emotional '' killer though.This isnt just another mission he is on.His long time friend has been horribly maimed and his wife ( who Bond also seemed quite close to ) killed on their wedding day.

    What i like to think is that besides all that the attack on the Leiters has opened up an old psychological wound of Bonds, namely his own wife being murdered literally within minutes of being married to her.This is partly why Bond is driven over the edge in this movie and is even more ruthless that usual.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    yes, I do agree that Dalton sometimes is a bit weak with the lighter scenes (his interaction with MP isn't that great, and I can't help but think he looks awkward when he's with Q in LTK).

    There's one or two more serious moments though that don't quite feel right to me, actually they all come from LTK:
    -Bond finding Della.
    -Bond sneaking aboard the wavekrest (that big scowl he does as he's sneaking around the cabin).
    -The casino scene with him and Lupe ("TAKE ME TO HIM!")

    They all seem forced to me.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    You get the sense Dalton is consciously pulling out all his dramatic acting chops in some of those scenes.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    IMO he is doing it in all his scenes...he is trying to be Bond instead of naturally embracing the character.....
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dalton seemed more of an "emotional" killer to me especially in LTK. He never felt dispassionate like Connery or Craig did.

    Its appropriate for Bond in LTK to be a more '' emotional '' killer though.This isnt just another mission he is on.His long time friend has been horribly maimed and his wife ( who Bond also seemed quite close to ) killed on their wedding day.

    What i like to think is that besides all that the attack on the Leiters has opened up an old psychological wound of Bonds, namely his own wife being murdered literally within minutes of being married to her.This is partly why Bond is driven over the edge in this movie and is even more ruthless that usual.

    Well yes albeit an 80s action movie commonplace it is justified. But that is what I mean: there's nothing cold about Dalton's Bond in LTK. Even in TLD there's scenes when he's borderline boiling.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Dalton had the look of Bond in the photo's and stills but couldnt deliver on screen....from the accent,to the obvious discomfort.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    There does seem to be a lot of Dalton bashing going on at the moment. I guess we have to get used to it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    There does seem to be a lot of Dalton bashing going on at the moment. I guess we have to get used to it.

    Welcome to the world of being a Brosnan fan.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    There does seem to be a lot of Dalton bashing going on at the moment. I guess we have to get used to it.

    Welcome to the world of being a Brosnan fan.

    That is true, Brosnan takes mad heat. I actually find myself visiting those films more now, returning to a time when Bond was more about just enjoying the ride.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It's not so much Dalton bashing as it's more a realization that he's been so overrated lately and his performance flaws are becoming more apparent. But it's nice that Pierce is getting a little more love. :D
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    I don't think it is Dalton bashing either. Every Bond actor gets criticized to a degree even Connery.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Dalton is the Bond actor who gets away with a lot on this forum,when i would watch any other Bond film over TLD.

    Believe me,i reallly really like LTK but again its not for Dalton,its for the villains and allies in it.

    Brosnan's films are just more re-watchable and fun as a Bond film should be,and he deserves a bit more respect imo...and i am saying this as Brosnan is my #4 and Dalton #6 Bond ,so neither make my top 3.

    If Dalton believed he could be Bond and relaxed then i think he would have been the best.
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