Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    "readers of Fleming get him" - that is quite a assumption...

    so not liking Craig much means I am only casual fan, thats quite funny actually, worse....I can do without Brosnan as well, so probably not fan at all...

    But even so, I love GE and SP, think put both in my Top 10 even now.

    CR I like fine, mostly because my favorite French actress Eva Green plays main part and movie in general is quite good.

    Not saying you're a casual fan at all, I don't know you, I'm saying that the people I have met who deride Craig as not 'looking' like Bond are always casual fans. The type who value the veneer highly, while dismissing the depth of character.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    acoppola wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    I teach mostly 18-20 year old guys.
    I often use Bond in my lecture and the young guys who have only seen Daniel Craig as Bond are always surprised to see Brosnan and Dalton and often notice how different they look in general to Craig.
    I think for the mainstream young audience it doesn't matter if Bond is tall dark haired handsome or medium height blonde and very muscular, they would accept Jason Statham as Bond. With time Bonds identity will be lost if next actor is again totally different to Mr Fleming's vision!

    They would accept Jason Statham. I agree with the passage of time, Bond will be watered down to nothing like what Fleming intended.

    The way things are going and how they are adding in aspects that were never there before, perhaps in 30 years time we will have a Bond wrestling with his sexuality and how he wanted to be a girl. Not as far fetched when Blofeld is now his step-brother!





    Have you ever read the books. Apart from the blonde hair and not being 6 ft, Craigs portrayal especially in CR is very close to Fleming. And as for the other comments Bond will never be gay, bald or non white as it isn't commercially viable anyhow.

    I have read the books and Craig certainly gulps down alcohol like the Bond of the books. But I do not visualise Craig when imagining Bond. Craig is too thuggish and the theme of Bond not liking killing is certainly something that does not apply to Craig.

    Never be gay? I am not so sure, judging by how gay issues are being promoted in the media.

    I read they are considering doing a superhero film, where the hero is gay. It is not as far fetched as you think.

    It would be like saying thirty years ago that M could never be a woman!

    And it was unviable to think a black man could be elected as President of the USA, but it happened. So a black Bond is just a matter of time.

    Bond is a business, they wont take silly commercial risks that may damage the franchise. Plus the producers always have the fallback position that the character has always been white. You mention Obama being president, but the US just elected a 'throwback' as President......kind of speaks to the current climate of thought in that Country......im not sure the majority would be rushing to cinemas to see a non traditional interpretation of Bond.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Pretty much everyone in the US that is in my age bracket, let's say between 45 and 70, have seen plenty of Bond. It was so much of a singular phenomena over here in the '60s and '70s. It's the younger audiences that seem to only have peripheral knowledge of the character (based on my students, my nephews, etc.). After the lack of traction that the Dalton films got, followed by the six year gap, that ongoing link was broken. Some jumped in with Brosnan, but to most it was just another franchise among many to choose from. I would say that the majority of high school students, and even those in their 20s, have not ever seen a Bond film.

    That is sad to learn. In my generation, Bond was the biggest thing in cinema culture growing up. And he was about elegance, which I always loved!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Sometimes what we get is a reaction to what we have. So there is always a possibility that we get a return to the more traditional template, at least physically, next time out. They won't cast based on looks though. It will be on ability first, based on this team's apparent modus operandi.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    suavejmf wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    I teach mostly 18-20 year old guys.
    I often use Bond in my lecture and the young guys who have only seen Daniel Craig as Bond are always surprised to see Brosnan and Dalton and often notice how different they look in general to Craig.
    I think for the mainstream young audience it doesn't matter if Bond is tall dark haired handsome or medium height blonde and very muscular, they would accept Jason Statham as Bond. With time Bonds identity will be lost if next actor is again totally different to Mr Fleming's vision!

    They would accept Jason Statham. I agree with the passage of time, Bond will be watered down to nothing like what Fleming intended.

    The way things are going and how they are adding in aspects that were never there before, perhaps in 30 years time we will have a Bond wrestling with his sexuality and how he wanted to be a girl. Not as far fetched when Blofeld is now his step-brother!





    Have you ever read the books. Apart from the blonde hair and not being 6 ft, Craigs portrayal especially in CR is very close to Fleming. And as for the other comments Bond will never be gay, bald or non white as it isn't commercially viable anyhow.

    I have read the books and Craig certainly gulps down alcohol like the Bond of the books. But I do not visualise Craig when imagining Bond. Craig is too thuggish and the theme of Bond not liking killing is certainly something that does not apply to Craig.

    Never be gay? I am not so sure, judging by how gay issues are being promoted in the media.

    I read they are considering doing a superhero film, where the hero is gay. It is not as far fetched as you think.

    It would be like saying thirty years ago that M could never be a woman!

    And it was unviable to think a black man could be elected as President of the USA, but it happened. So a black Bond is just a matter of time.

    Bond is a business, they wont take silly commercial risks that may damage the franchise. Plus the producers always have the fallback position that the character has always been white. You mention Obama being president, but the US just elected a 'throwback' as President......kind of speaks to the current climate of thought in that Country......im not sure the majority would be rushing to cinemas to see a non traditional interpretation of Bond.

    I am not disagreeing with you. But if we just look at this from a logical viewpoint. I find political correctness patronising and divisive. Everyone should be treated equally, and held accountable equally.

    But, the fallback position you mentioned that the character has always been white is not a strong card. Moneypenny was always white, but we have a black Moneypenny.

    So, the Bond always being white is a non-starter in 2017. And what if they audition a black actor, but the white actor gets it. The black actor could sue for discrimination. We have to look at the legal framework as well.

    Last year, what was the massive fuss over the Oscars about? And the subsequent boycott, because ethnic minorities felt that too many white actors were getting the acclaim.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Nobody really cares about Moneypenny.....she's a minor token character. You cant have a black Moneypenny, Felix and Bond though....before you know it you've got The Cosby Show! Nobody moans that Shaft, Axel Foley and Blade arnt white.......you wouldn't interview Jude Law for these parts would you..... Whether people like it or not Bond is white british.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nobody really cares about Moneypenny.....she's a minor token character. You cant have a black Moneypenny, Felix and Bond though....before you know it you've got The Cosby Show! Nobody moans that Shaft, Axel Foley and Blade arnt white.......you wouldn't interview Jude Law for these parts would you..... Whether people like it or not Bond is white british.

    Bean counters at studios want new opportunities for a character to grow. Black people are a large demographic world-wide. How many in Brazil, Africa, Latin America and all over the world? A black Bond would attract an audience that was not here before.





  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    acoppola wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nobody really cares about Moneypenny.....she's a minor token character. You cant have a black Moneypenny, Felix and Bond though....before you know it you've got The Cosby Show! Nobody moans that Shaft, Axel Foley and Blade arnt white.......you wouldn't interview Jude Law for these parts would you..... Whether people like it or not Bond is white british.

    Bean counters at studios want new opportunities for a character to grow. Black people are a large demographic world-wide. How many in Brazil, Africa, Latin America and all over the world? A black Bond would attract an audience that was not here before.





    All mainly poor third world nations. The American,UK and European markets are larger,affluent and influential. Also a none white Bond would be a massive risk in Asia and Eastern Europe....where it is a lot less PC. Bean counters like sure things, proven things, not high risk.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    suavejmf wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nobody really cares about Moneypenny.....she's a minor token character. You cant have a black Moneypenny, Felix and Bond though....before you know it you've got The Cosby Show! Nobody moans that Shaft, Axel Foley and Blade arnt white.......you wouldn't interview Jude Law for these parts would you..... Whether people like it or not Bond is white british.

    Bean counters at studios want new opportunities for a character to grow. Black people are a large demographic world-wide. How many in Brazil, Africa, Latin America and all over the world? A black Bond would attract an audience that was not here before.





    All mainly poor third world nations. The American,UK and European markets are larger,affluent and influential. Also a none white Bond would be a massive risk in Asia and Eastern Europe....where it is a lot less PC. Bean counters like sure things, proven things, not high risk.

    In that case why did the former head of Sony, Amy Pascal, suggest Idris Elba?

    Was Craig proven before Bond ? He was a high risk casting.

    I can only look at the facts We are not in the year 1995.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like the fact that Craig has that authentically rougher, indulgent streak to Bond. He's really the only actor (other than perhaps Connery) who you can see gulping down alcohol and fighting dirty with his enemies. When those sorts of situations happened in the books I pictured Craig.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I like the fact that Craig has that authentically rougher, indulgent streak to Bond. He's really the only actor (other than perhaps Connery) who you can see gulping down alcohol and fighting dirty with his enemies. When those sorts of situations happened in the books I pictured Craig.

    The other thing Craig does well Imo, is that when you look in his eyes you can see the cogs turning. A lot of Fleming deals with Bond's psyche, but it's internal. I've always thought Craig managed to cleverly elicit this in his performances. You can almost imagine a Fleming VO in certain scenes as he talks us through Bond's thinking.
  • Posts: 11,189
    @RC7. A good example of that is when he's talking to Camile in the cave
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Very cheeky to give Craig credit for being like Fleming when Dalton did it first. I am rereading the novels and don't picture Craig. Connery /Dalton is yes.

    Those deep sighs Bond gives in the books after a tense situation Dalton did.

    Craig is far colder than the Bond of the books. And that is like Red Grant.

    I will though in From Russia With Love see Craig.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @RC7. A good example of that is when he's talking to Camile in the cave

    Absolutely. As you know, I've always thought George was a bit dead behind the eyes, but even taking into account the rest I'm not sure anyone has captured this particular facet like Craig.
  • Posts: 386
    An interesting debate, which I will briefly interrupt with a random opinion.

    I don't "hate" any bond film, but I very much dislike You Only Live Twice. From the cartoonist docks scene, to the dorky helmet worn for Little Nellie, to the gasp-inducing twenty minute horror of bond's "ninja training" to connery's contempt for the project.

    I can't raise it above my bottom five. In fact, it sinks with every viewing. At least it will bounce off the bedrock of MN and DAD.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 386
    In fact, no matter how much we love connery's fab four, he also made two absolute stinkers IMHO.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    GetCarter wrote: »
    In fact, no matter how much we love connery's fab four, he also made two absolute stinkers IMHO.

    Even TB is a bit flabby if you're going to get critical. The first three are varying degrees of brilliant.
  • Posts: 386
    RC7 wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    In fact, no matter how much we love connery's fab four, he also made two absolute stinkers IMHO.

    Even TB is a bit flabby if you're going to get critical. The first three are varying degrees of brilliant.

    I know what you mean. TB is one of those rare beasts where I believe they actually surpassed GF in some respects. At stages TB is an absolutely scintillating movie.

    Of course, the cumbersome setup lets it down. With a pacier first act, I firmly believe TB would be every bit as good as GF or FRWL.

    It certainly has connery's best performance.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GetCarter wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    In fact, no matter how much we love connery's fab four, he also made two absolute stinkers IMHO.

    Even TB is a bit flabby if you're going to get critical. The first three are varying degrees of brilliant.

    I know what you mean. TB is one of those rare beasts where I believe they actually surpassed GF in some respects. At stages TB is an absolutely scintillating movie.

    Of course, the cumbersome setup lets it down. With a pacier first act, I firmly believe TB would be every bit as good as GF or FRWL.

    It certainly has connery's best performance.
    I actually much prefer it to GF, despite the slow later half and long underwater sequences. I agree on Connery though. A masterful performance. I've heard comments from time to time that he appears bored. Far from it.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Totally agree ,TB is better than GF in every department for me..
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You could have written it more politely as we do in the UK the home of James Bond!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    +100

    @acoppola Show @RC7 some respect,a valued member on here ...you have pissed off enough members ,including me...you have *banned* written all over you.
    We are a family on here,if you cant join that family then go elsewhere.

    Oh ,and i am also in the home of James Bond...the UK.

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Dalton was an unrefined bond, and looks nothing like that picture of bond
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    [
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    Your the first to react when something is not to your liking.

    Which caused some old members to leave. And you are not @birdleson, so it has nothing to do with you.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    barryt007 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    +100

    Show @RC7 some respect a valued member on here ...you have pissed off enough members ,including me...you have *banned* written all over you.
    We are a family on here,if you cant join that family then go elsewhere.

    Oh ,and i am also in the home of James Bond...the UK.

    I have been here for more than 4 years.

    Incidentally, your post about Bond and trains really elevated the serious discussion about Bond. It was so fascinating I fell asleep.



  • Posts: 19,339
    acoppola wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    +100

    Show @RC7 some respect a valued member on here ...you have pissed off enough members ,including me...you have *banned* written all over you.
    We are a family on here,if you cant join that family then go elsewhere.

    Oh ,and i am also in the home of James Bond...the UK.

    I have been here for more than 4 years.

    Incidentally, your post about Bond and trains really elevated the serious discussion about Bond. It was so fascinating I fell asleep.

    4 years...i have been hear from nearly the start of the old site KTBEU,and brought most of these threads over from the old site before it expired,in a time limit.

    So without me this site wouldnt be what it is,now THAT is a real Bond fan..so if you want to take me on then you take on the whole site including members and mods....you better be damned sure...


  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    +100

    Show @RC7 some respect a valued member on here ...you have pissed off enough members ,including me...you have *banned* written all over you.
    We are a family on here,if you cant join that family then go elsewhere.

    Oh ,and i am also in the home of James Bond...the UK.

    I have been here for more than 4 years.

    Incidentally, your post about Bond and trains really elevated the serious discussion about Bond. It was so fascinating I fell asleep.


    4 years...i have been hear from nearly the start of the old site KTBEU,and brought most of these threads over from the old site before it expired,in a time limit.

    So without me this site wouldnt be what it is,now THAT is a real Bond fan..so if you want to take me on then you take on the whole site including members and mods....you better be damned sure...


  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Can we cut the trump shit on here? We have two threads for that crap that I avoid.

    Watch your manners. You reacted out of context. The discussions between me and @bondjames were about the pc culture and Trump was mentioned as being anri-pc.

    It linked into the bigger picture.

    You've replied to this twice now. Stop being a reactionary little shit.

    +100

    Show @RC7 some respect a valued member on here ...you have pissed off enough members ,including me...you have *banned* written all over you.
    We are a family on here,if you cant join that family then go elsewhere.

    Oh ,and i am also in the home of James Bond...the UK.

    I have been here for more than 4 years.

    Incidentally, your post about Bond and trains really elevated the serious discussion about Bond. It was so fascinating I fell asleep.

    4 years...i have been hear from nearly the start of the old site KTBEU,and brought most of these threads over from the old site before it expired,in a time limit.

    So without me this site wouldnt be what it is,now THAT is a real Bond fan..so if you want to take me on then you take on the whole site including members and mods....you better be damned sure...


  • Posts: 19,339
    Any mods or members for comments on the latest insult ?
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