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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'll give him that one as well. But after that I'm afraid not.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    After Moore humor went downhill in Bond movies.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    After Moore humor went downhill in Bond movies.

    Not so much "after Moore" as it is "during Moore." He's pretty cold and tough in his first few installments, but after that, things get more and more quippy and jokey, and it gets harder to take him as seriously.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    @peter I await the passionate response from his avid fans.

    I personally prefer Craig, but understand and acknowledge that Dalton didn't get the same budget, commitment or vision from EON that Craig did.

    Moreover, Craig was able to see what Dalton did which didn't work, and was also able to benefit from other successful spy/reboot franchises such as Bourne (who was also superbly contemplative - particularly at the end of the Bourne Supremacy) and Batman Begins (a masterfully executed reboot from the man who made the concept fashionable). Dalton only had Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Stallone & Arnie for contemporary inspiration.

    So I think Dalton is underappreciated. I feel some of that is deserved and some of it is on account of EON.


    I maintain @bondjames that Dalton was a terrific Bond. All the more so because of the circumstances he took the role.

    I am amazed that this is hardly mentioned, but Dalton came onto TLD the day after he finished filming Brenda Starr. No preparation, yet his performance hardly is affected.

    How much preparation time was given to Craig for CR? He had to go gym, choreography practice and with no baggage from the past. His state was clean.

    Now imagine if you threw Craig into CR filming with no preparation like Dalton and with the leftovers of the Brosnan era, with Lee Tamahori at the directing helm.

    Humour me, but I am creating a like for like scenario.

    What would be the result?

    In the circumstances I give Dalton the edge. He gave a serious shot and re-evaluation of the role. The sniper scene was a exemplary.

    If Dalton had the same circumstances as Craig for his debut, then the result would have been a different beast.


  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I liked "I hope you don t snore, Q:" as well.And "Ihope he isn t invited for dinner!"
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I like Bond's gleeful nod at the police in TLD as he prepares to cut the bottom half off of their car before eventually escaping across the lake.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Let's all put our personal preferences aside, and give each actor their due. My preference for Craig is QOS. Did not care for the style change of the Mendes films. He fought better in QOS, and thought the PTS of SF was dull. bar the initial point where he discovers his colleagues.,it was no where nearly as exciting as QOS. The music helped the PTS of QOS.

    Yes, things like the Dalton swivel I can accept. We could also nit pick Connery in Dr No when after the casino, he goes to his home and drops on one knee with his gun, when he thinks someone has broken in.

    When Craig is in the lorry fight at the airport in CR. Well there are some dodgy facial expressions.

    All Bond films have there dodgy moments.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote: »
    Let's all put our personal preferences aside, and give each actor their due. My preference for Craig is QOS. Did not care for the style change of the Mendes films. He fought better in QOS, and thought the PTS of SF was dull. bar the initial point where he discovers his colleagues.,it was no where nearly as exciting as QOS. The music helped the PTS of QOS.

    Yes, things like the Dalton swivel I can accept. We could also nit pick Connery in Dr No when after the casino, he goes to his home and drops on one knee with his gun, when he thinks someone has broken in.

    When Craig is in the lorry fight at the airport in CR. Well there are some dodgy facial expressions.

    All Bond films have there dodgy moments.

    I don't think Craig's facial expressions during that sequence were particularly notorious. His expressions during the SP plane chase are more unintentionally funny imo.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    And I feel Brosnan is too harshly denigrated here. He was splendid in GE. He did a great job.

    I thought about it yesterday and remembered that back in 1996, I used to watch GE daily. And he was very funny and witty. The tank scene was pure style.

    He needed Campbell for his second film.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote: »
    And I feel Brosnan is too harshly denigrated here. He was splendid in GE. He did a great job.

    I thought about it yesterday and remembered that back in 1996, I used to watch GE daily. And he was very funny and witty. The tank scene was pure style.

    He needed Campbell for his second film.

    I STILL watch GE almost daily. I must admit though I do get what people mean when they talk about Brosnan's rigidness in that film. Still, he has lots of good moments and is well directed.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    And I feel Brosnan is too harshly denigrated here. He was splendid in GE. He did a great job.

    I thought about it yesterday and remembered that back in 1996, I used to watch GE daily. And he was very funny and witty. The tank scene was pure style.

    He needed Campbell for his second film.

    I STILL watch GE almost daily. I must admit, I do get what people mean when they talk about Brosnan's rigidness in that film. Still, he has lots of good moments and is well directed.

    Yes, because Campbell was hard on him. Saying "You better be f@@king good,"

    Brosnan was intimidated by Campbell, because he cracked the whip and the film had to be a success. And that may explain some rigidness.

    Campbell took no prisoners and could be harsh on actors.

    Craig would be out of place in GE as he would in TLD.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    For the most part I think Craig seems fairly confident in CR.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    Craig is fine in CR but Eva Green is the main reason the movie works.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    For the most part I think Craig seems fairly confident in CR.

    No doubts there. He gave 100 % and he was supported which I feel Dalton should have got too. EON finally smelled the coffee with CR and really dug deep.


    It is when an actor does not care, that I get annoyed.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    Craig is fine in CR but Eva Green is the main reason the movie works.

    Eva Green is out of this world. Craig was fortunate to have an actress of her calibre. It elevated his performance. A Tanya Roberts would have detracted from him.

    She is arguably one of the most fascinating Bond women.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    Craig is fine in CR but Eva Green is the main reason the movie works.

    I think that you're selling Craig short. He works well with Green, but he carries the film quite well on his own. Great cast al around.

    One of the best ensembles in the series.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I don't think Craig would've suffered in the slightest if Eva Green hadn't been cast. They have terrific chemistry, particularly during the train sequence, but she doesn't make or break the performance of Bond - he would've been just fine without her. Hell, she isn't in QoS, and I think his performance is just as strong in that one, if not better.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Tanja Roberts??
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    edited January 2017 Posts: 167
    .
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I don't think Craig would've suffered in the slightest if Eva Green hadn't been cast. They have terrific chemistry, particularly during the train sequence, but she doesn't make or break the performance of Bond - he would've been just fine without her. Hell, she isn't in QoS, and I think his performance is just as strong in that one, if not better.

    He had a great cast in QOS too. Olga Kurylenko was the right girl for the tone and suited his emotional state.

    I think Forster is the most underrated Bond director. The Dalton of directors.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @LordBrettSinclair, I'm guessing you don't care for QoS if you feel that anyone could've carried the movie. It's a shame the film doesn't get the credit it deserves.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @LordBrettSinclair, I'm guessing you don't care for QoS if you feel that anyone could've carried the movie. It's a shame the film doesn't get the credit it deserves.

    I almost can't see it as a Bond movie, it's common action and badly edited too. But not at the bottom of my list as at least not boring and I love Olga, such beautiful woman.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    We watched all 6 first movies of all 6 actors over Christmas and then watched QOS. The difference was depressing!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    We watched all 6 first movies of all 6 actors over Christmas and then watched QOS. The difference was depressing!

    in what way?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    What is "common action"? You mean action we've come to expect from a spy thriller/action series? The editing isn't "bad," it's just quick - you want bad editing, go watch the final two 'Taken' installments or 'Elysium'. QoS' editing works just fine because it's quick and snappy and fits with the entire motif and speed of the film - the editing is always on the move, as is Bond, jumping from one set piece/bout of action to the next.

    Most of the time, the only criticisms people can come up with for QoS is the action (which is immediately disregarded by me, as it's ridiculous to complain about there being too much action when the genre of the series is also 'Action'), the editing (see above), or the title (ridiculous complaint, shouldn't have any bearing on a finished product.)
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    Yes sorry, try to be more specific. QOS feels like, yes Taken. Quite similar also to other movies. Especially Bourne, the editing feels wrong, it may be ok technically but I see it as "bad" because I can not see what is going on, its not like Bond is shot usually. No Bond feeling, no originality.
    As movie itself ok, as said I can watch it and not at end of my list.

    @BAIN123
    QOS did not feel like Bond after watching GE-TLD-CR-LALD-DN-OHMSS the contrast was enormous and quite distracting. Drop in quality dramatically too, just does not compare to the other 6 we watched.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    Yes sorry, try to be more specific. QOS feels like, yes Taken. Quite similar also to other movies. Especially Bourne, the editing feels wrong, it may be ok technically but I see it as "bad" because I can not see what is going on, its not like Bond is shot usually. No Bond feeling, no originality.
    As movie itself ok, as said I can watch it and not at end of my list.

    @BAIN123
    QOS did not feel like Bond after watching GE-TLD-CR-LALD-DN-OHMSS the contrast was enormous and quite distracting. Drop in quality dramatically too, just does not compare to the other 6 we watched.

    I do get what you mean. Even after CR I think the drop in quality is somewhat noticeable. CR may have had its flaws but it flows far better.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I can accept that some people don't like the editing, and that you may feel the movie is akin to 'Taken' or 'Bourne' somehow, but no originality? That's definitely not the case.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    You can rename Mr Bond to Mr Bourne, no one would notice or think hey this should be a Bond movie. Or McLane would work too. QOS was copy of other former iconic action films not much originality and way too few Bond feel moments. No Q or Moneypenny who would give a Bond feel. And M acts like that stupid CIA agent from the Bourne movies.

    In end is all matter of taste. If you look at my ranking list it sure is unusual I realize.

    1. FYEO
    2. TSWLM
    3. OP
    4. OHMSS
    5. GE
    6. SP
    7. LALD
    8. GF
    9. FRWL
    10. MR
    11. CR
    12. TMWTGG
    13. AVTAK
    14. TLD
    15. DN
    16. TB
    17. YOLT
    18. DAF
    19. TND
    20. LTK
    21. QOS
    22. DAD
    23. SF
    24. TWINE
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The editing in QoS was original for Bond (at that time) but certainly wasn't original for the action film genre. As has been mentioned, it had Bourne (which had already completed its initial 3 film run by this time) written all over it. I'll give Forster & Co. credit for injecting some glamour and class into the action proceedings though. The scenes are filled with atmosphere, which is generally missing from Taken, Bourne & the like. That's where SP has more in common with them, with its generic & cheap monotone palette.

    @acoppola, yes I acknowledge that Dalton did a great job with what he was served. We can't take that away from him. I may have problems with his delivery in instances, but I think he had screen presence (as I've said, the only actor I feel was short in this dept. was Brosnan - I noticed it right away in GE where his co-stars were chewing the scenery compared to him. Craig on the other hand held his own with the formidable Green & Co. in CR, which is no small feat) and could have been far more impressive with a different director.
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