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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    edited March 2017 Posts: 1,187
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think daltons better than every bond actor except rogor Moore
    Rogor?
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    @jamesbondkenya I'm with you! Rog 1st then Dalton. I think I have Connery, Craig, Brozzer, George after that.

    Need more controversy? Kamal Khan is a top three villain!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    MooseWithFleas wrote: »
    Need more controversy? Kamal Khan is a top three villain!
    Not controversial for me. Jourdan is pitch perfect in my view.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Cheers to that @bondjames. Such class, charm, with an underlying sinister evilness to his portrayal . Louis Jourdan was a legend.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    peter wrote: »
    More controversial opinions:

    Coming from a Dalton-critic: I find the first 35 minutes of TLD to have more classic Bond and Fleming Bond in the entirety of Brosnan's tenure

    That's not controversial at all! That's fact.

    DAD was Brosnan's best performance. TWINE was his worst (bucking the trend of third Bond films).
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Don't get me wrong, I love every bond actor except for Lazenby which is shit, but if I had to rank them, roger Moore is #1 because of consistency and fun, then dalton for his book like portrayal , I love Sean Connery except he's not consistent , yolt and diamonds are sad performances and then I love Brosnan too great performance but his movies are kinda sad. I like Craig too. But he's kinda just a mix of everybody
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @echo then it's controversial to me then! I'm a Dalton-critic. Maybe I'm softening to him in my old age!
  • MilovyMilovy
    edited March 2017 Posts: 676
    bondjames wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    I don't know if this is controversial, but I often see Bond fans praise Brosnan's performance as one of the few bright spots in DAD. I couldn't disagree more. At best, his facial expressions and body language are all over the map, and at worst he feels like a sleazy playboy. Not like Bond at all.
    I'm one who's commented positively on his performance in DAD, but I recognize it's relative, & that the standards are quite low when we're discussing him. To me, he seemed much more confident in DAD and there was a certain carefree, yet restrained arrogance to his Bond in this film (particularly in Cuba and Hong Kong) which I found to be a welcome change from the unfortunate & disappointing overacting he clearly displayed at crucial moments in TWINE. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I much prefer Brosnan on the whole in DAD to Craig in SP.
    I can appreciate that perspective. He just makes so many strange choices in both TWINE and DAD and the performances don't seem very thoughtful. I would agree that DAD is better than TWINE, but that's faint praise. My favourite Brosnan performance is actually TND - he's not trying too hard and getting out of his depth like in TWINE, he isn't burdened with an ungodly amount of sleazy lines (and a few too many pounds) like in DAD, and he's calmed down after his overeager turn in GE. In TND, he gives a solid, balanced performance.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    I think I mentioned it before but here it is: Bibi is actually a good character and one of the assets of FYEO.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think I mentioned it before but here it is: Bibi is actually a good character and one of the assets of FYEO.

    Huh?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Bibi makes me laugh,she doesnt do any harm and gives RogerBond a chance to throw in a few one-liners,which is always welcome.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bibi makes me laugh,she doesnt do any harm and gives RogerBond a chance to throw in a few one-liners,which is always welcome.

    I do like that I'll buy you an ice cream line
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think I mentioned it before but here it is: Bibi is actually a good character and one of the assets of FYEO.

    Huh?

    She reveals a very sinister side to Kristatos early on.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    This will be very controversial, but after watching Casino Royale yesterday I must say that

    I don't like the parkour chase so very much anymore.

    I remember that I quite enjoyed it the first time I saw it but meanwhile I find it a bit too excessive as if it was a relict of the Brosnan era. There is amazing stunt work and great cinematography but I find it goes too far into superhero territory... I mean no real man, even the very best spy would risk his life in such a way, as well as the life of the person he actually wants to interrogate and the life of all the many people working on this construction site. I mean a professional killer would simply not do that. He would not cause any attention. And actually Bond was just lucky not to be shot by Molaka.

    Of course chases like this have happened before in the franchise but then it was usually not taken so very seriously and the scenes were rather lighthearted. Here, however, the tone is really serious and the scenes are brutal and Bond feels more like Rambo or the Terminator.

    I further think that the chase sequence is a big missed opportunity. One could have used it to introduce us to Molaka, as a great main henchman. There has never been such a fast runner in the Bond franchise. Why not let Molaka escape and give him another scene (eg. at Miami airport). Unfortunately, we get so many minor villains in CR who are only there for one scene and are always killed by Bond. It would have also been nice to show that Bond is not always successfull. This makes the action much less predictable.

    Another issue I have is that Bond is simply crossing a line by storming an embassy. I mean seriously? Can anyone imagine to what a diplomatic crisis this would have led? Even though Bond is not experienced and has just earned the 00 status, this can hardly be justified by anything.

    Finally I find that the parkour chase and the embassy scene are not motivated very well. I mean OK, unfortunately Molaka suddenly knows that he is observed and runs away. So what? Try to follow him and if this is not possible let him escape and get him the next time. He is on an island and it won't be so easy for him escape from there.

    I know it is very controversial but it is my honest opinion :-)
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    GBF wrote: »
    This will be very controversial, but after watching Casino Royale yesterday I must say that

    I don't like the parkour chase so very much anymore.

    I remember that I quite enjoyed it the first time I saw it but meanwhile I find it a bit too excessive as if it was a relict of the Brosnan era. There is amazing stunt work and great cinematography but I find it goes too far into superhero territory... I mean no real man, even the very best spy would risk his life in such a way, as well as the life of the person he actually wants to interrogate and the life of all the many people working on this construction site. I mean a professional killer would simply not do that. He would not cause any attention. And actually Bond was just lucky not to be shot by Molaka.

    Of course chases like this have happened before in the franchise but then it was usually not taken so very seriously and the scenes were rather lighthearted. Here, however, the tone is really serious and the scenes are brutal and Bond feels more like Rambo or the Terminator.

    I further think that the chase sequence is a big missed opportunity. One could have used it to introduce us to Molaka, as a great main henchman. There has never been such a fast runner in the Bond franchise. Why not let Molaka escape and give him another scene (eg. at Miami airport). Unfortunately, we get so many minor villains in CR who are only there for one scene and are always killed by Bond. It would have also been nice to show that Bond is not always successfull. This makes the action much less predictable.

    Another issue I have is that Bond is simply crossing a line by storming an embassy. I mean seriously? Can anyone imagine to what a diplomatic crisis this would have led? Even though Bond is not experienced and has just earned the 00 status, this can hardly be justified by anything.

    Finally I find that the parkour chase and the embassy scene are not motivated very well. I mean OK, unfortunately Molaka suddenly knows that he is observed and runs away. So what? Try to follow him and if this is not possible let him escape and get him the next time. He is on an island and it won't be so easy for him escape from there.

    I know it is very controversial but it is my honest opinion :-)

    Well your certainly in the Right thread
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    @GBF I am also not very fond of that scene. It is in fact one of the moments in CR that I would skip if I would be into those practices ;).
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2017 Posts: 10,512
    The parkour chase is a jewel in the canon. Amazing. The above is nitpicking.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    It is debatable whether or not killing Molaka made Bond's mission successful. And it is one thing about CR I love: Bond is not shy of using his license to kill yet he makes questionable decisions doing so.

    Oh and I love the parkour scene.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    CR parkour chase blew me away when I saw it in theaters, and has impressed me ever since. Incredible sequence, especially the crane to crane to rooftop jump.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    I enjoy both the parkour chase and the Miami airport chase, but oh how they do go on. They definitely contribute to CR's pacing problems in that very early on we have two very long and virtually dialogue-free action sequences in fairly quick succession. I'm not saying there aren't great parts to the first third of CR—because there definitely are—but at times it feels like the movie doesn't really start for me until we're on the train with Vesper. I think once or twice when doing a double feature with QoS I even watched CR's PTS and opening titles and then jumped ahead to the train scene.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Well that gets down to individual tastes.

    With CASINO ROYALE, I like how it's applied as 3 acts and I won't opt out of any of them. Works like gangbusters to finally present the Fleming story that establishes the Bond character on screen.

    I can add I've got no reservations about QUANTUM OF SOLACE on its own or conjoined with CASINO ROYALE or with the connections established by SPECTRE. There are just too many film moments involved true to the Bond character to dismiss any of it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think she's a fine character as well.

    I always kind of liked Bibi, and Jacoba Brink.

    "Bibi, it is time for your rubdown!"
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @MrKissKissBangBang: u r sounding like @Mendes on steroids...
  • CountJohnCountJohn
    edited March 2017 Posts: 230
    peter wrote: »
    More controversial opinions:

    Coming from a Dalton-critic: I find the first 35 minutes of TLD to have more classic Bond and Fleming Bond in the entirety of Brosnan's tenure

    The defection sequence in TLD is often cited as one of the high points of the movie and franchise, so I wouldn't say that's controversial.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,136
    In my opinion CR tops during the actual going-ons around the casino. From that fantastic train conversation to Le Chiffre's execution.

    The third act in Italy has a nice glamourous touch to it, which I always appreciate. Especially Como looks like a spot where I imagine Fleming would feel at home.

    The first act is a bit rough around the edges and it doesn't feel very Bondian to me. It misses a certain classiness. CR hits a fine top 10 spot but I'd say it would end up higher without the first part.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    In my opinion CR tops during the actual going-ons around the casino. From that fantastic train conversation to Le Chiffre's execution.

    The third act in Italy has a nice glamourous touch to it, which I always appreciate. Especially Como looks like a spot where I imagine Fleming would feel at home.

    The first act is a bit rough around the edges and it doesn't feel very Bondian to me. It misses a certain classiness. CR hits a fine top 10 spot but I'd say it would end up higher without the first part.

    I feel exactly the same. The train convesation, the shower scene, stairway fight, car flip are all among my very favourite scenes in the franchise. However, I don't care much about the first act either. The action is just too unrealistic and excessively long.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,009
    I think the 'Parkour' sequence is one of the best action scenes in the series. Was blown away when I saw it at the cinema. I remember when Bond catches the gun thrown at him thinking, "That's my kind of 007!"

    I like the fact it shows Bond as somewhat reckless, but that works for the fact that Bond is a new to the 00 section.

    I think it introduced Craig as a Bond to be reckoned with, and that he was an actor who was going to really convince in the action scenes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    This will be very controversial, but after watching Casino Royale yesterday I must say that

    I don't like the parkour chase so very much anymore.

    I remember that I quite enjoyed it the first time I saw it but meanwhile I find it a bit too excessive as if it was a relict of the Brosnan era. There is amazing stunt work and great cinematography but I find it goes too far into superhero territory... I mean no real man, even the very best spy would risk his life in such a way, as well as the life of the person he actually wants to interrogate and the life of all the many people working on this construction site. I mean a professional killer would simply not do that. He would not cause any attention. And actually Bond was just lucky not to be shot by Molaka.

    Of course chases like this have happened before in the franchise but then it was usually not taken so very seriously and the scenes were rather lighthearted. Here, however, the tone is really serious and the scenes are brutal and Bond feels more like Rambo or the Terminator.

    I further think that the chase sequence is a big missed opportunity. One could have used it to introduce us to Molaka, as a great main henchman. There has never been such a fast runner in the Bond franchise. Why not let Molaka escape and give him another scene (eg. at Miami airport). Unfortunately, we get so many minor villains in CR who are only there for one scene and are always killed by Bond. It would have also been nice to show that Bond is not always successfull. This makes the action much less predictable.

    Another issue I have is that Bond is simply crossing a line by storming an embassy. I mean seriously? Can anyone imagine to what a diplomatic crisis this would have led? Even though Bond is not experienced and has just earned the 00 status, this can hardly be justified by anything.

    Finally I find that the parkour chase and the embassy scene are not motivated very well. I mean OK, unfortunately Molaka suddenly knows that he is observed and runs away. So what? Try to follow him and if this is not possible let him escape and get him the next time. He is on an island and it won't be so easy for him escape from there.

    I know it is very controversial but it is my honest opinion :-)

    Exactly right! If the film is inviting us to take it seriously, it needs the substance to back it up. It's a contrived sequence.

    It's not a controversial opinion in my view. Just a well informed one. :)

    Contrarian bollocks.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    I think the 'Parkour' sequence is one of the best action scenes in the series. Was blown away when I saw it at the cinema. I remember when Bond catches the gun thrown at him thinking, "That's my kind of 007!"

    I like the fact it shows Bond as somewhat reckless, but that works for the fact that Bond is a new to the 00 section.

    I think it introduced Craig as a Bond to be reckoned with, and that he was an actor who was going to really convince in the action scenes.
    I couldn't have said it better. Rewatched CR last week and the sequence blew me away again. As good as it gets. I also like the SF PTS sequence as well, which similarly has a high level of tension and suspense.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film

    No no no....

    [-X

    Now why not?

    Well I think ,from a neutral point of view,its not better than GE,TSWLM or OP ...maybe even throw FYEO and LALD in there as well.

    Well I think ,from a neutral point of view, its A LOT better than GE,TSWLM or OP ...maybe even throw FYEO in there as well. LALD is better in my opinion, but from a quality point of view, TLD wins.
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