Controversial opinions about Bond films

1291292294296297707

Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I just think TSWLM is the most well made Moore film. It's got what may be the best location shooting in the entire series, great sets at Adam's end of Bond career, crazy scope in regards to wide-shot camera work, and everything that makes a film beautiful to look at. There's a lot that detracts from it, but it does have an undeniable cinematic appeal that is the most 60s film of the 70s in blockbuster power.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2017 Posts: 7,136
    I find TSWLM extremely satisfying from a visual point of view. For me, the strongest scenes are the ones in Egypt. They have great music and atmosphere. But I must say that after the Lotus chase it sometimes drags for me.

    I much prefer LALD and FYEO to it. And even, dare I say, TMWTGG. Though would certainly take TSWLM over MR, OP or AVTAK. It's right in the middle of Rog's tenure for me.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.
  • GoldenGun wrote: »
    I find TSWLM extremely satisfying from a visual point of view. For me, the strongest scenes are the ones in Egypt. They have great music and atmosphere. But I must say that after the Lotus chase it sometimes drags for me.

    I much prefer LALD and FYEO to it. And even, dare I say, TMWTGG. Though would certainly take TSWLM over MR, OP or AVTAK. It's right in the middle of Rog's tenure for me.

    The cartoon-like gags in Egypt just ruin the sequence, unfortunately.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    This seems to be everyone's favorite Roger Moore Bond.

    It's Roger Moore's favourite Roger Moore Bond too ;)

    As a piece of cinema TSWLM is great, but parts of it are a bit naff. I always find the rooftop fight unintentionally hilarious and yes I'm one of those Barbara Bach Bashers (ahem!). She always sounds spaced out when reading her lines.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.

    I'd go for Thunderball in this regard.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    This seems to be everyone's favorite Roger Moore Bond.

    It's Roger Moore's favourite Roger Moore Bond too ;)

    True.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.

    I'd go for Thunderball in this regard.

    @suavejmf, I was going to post the same thing yesterday, but didn't want to endure the backlash of arguing against GF. You're a brave soul.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2017 Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.

    I'd go for Thunderball in this regard.

    @suavejmf, I was going to post the same thing yesterday, but didn't want to endure the backlash of arguing against GF. You're a brave soul.

    Ha ha. Thunderball is a better film than GF. Better script, locations, girls, plot, score, Villains, scope, action and Director......it also has sharks. It is physically impossible for Guy Hamilton to top Terence Young....because Young quite frankly 'get's Bond' more than any other Director ever....or ever will. TB is Connery's second best film after FRWL, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who thought that TB was the very best Bond film.
  • Posts: 7,431
    But the sharks dont have frickin laser beams attached!!
    Watched TB again the other night. it didn't seem as slow as i remember it. But it is beautiful to look at, and has some of the best dialogue! I dont rate the final battle in TSWLM, tedious imho, but TB finale is terrific and visually superb! Still has one of Connerys best delivered one-liners, Domino, "What sharp little eyes you have!"....Bond, "Wait til you get to my teeth!"
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.

    I'd go for Thunderball in this regard.

    @suavejmf, I was going to post the same thing yesterday, but didn't want to endure the backlash of arguing against GF. You're a brave soul.

    Ha ha. Thunderball is a better film than GF. Better script, locations, girls, plot, score, Villains, scope, action and Director......it also has sharks. It is physically impossible for Guy Hamilton to top Terence Young....because Young quite frankly 'get's Bond' more than any other Director ever....or ever will. TB is Connery's second best film after FRWL, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who thought that TB was the very best Bond film.

    @suavejmf, you shall get no argument from me on any of that. TB already wins against GF by default because Bond actually does things in the movie. I'm doing an edit of my long form review on it right now to post on my blog, and reading back what I've written I fall in love with it all over again. It's a very special film that does what few others have ever been able to since. To comprehend the logistical hurdles of the production alone is just mind-boggling, and that's without adding in all the extras, the Bondmania hoopla, the down to the wire production and all the other craziness that had to be balanced. Young and his team showed their genius at being able to bring it all in successfully and it's quite frankly a miracle it's as great as it is considering the mountain of issues that stood in its way.

    It's also the water Bond film, and no other movie can say that.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    But the sharks dont have frickin laser beams attached!!
    Watched TB again the other night. it didn't seem as slow as i remember it. But it is beautiful to look at, and has some of the best dialogue! I dont rate the final battle in TSWLM, tedious imho, but TB finale is terrific and visually superb! Still has one of Connerys best delivered one-liners, Domino, "What sharp little eyes you have!"....Bond, "Wait til you get to my teeth!"

    I agree, I've never really thought of TB as "slow". I'd say it's more leisurely.

    I agree that some of the characters should have either been developed more or dropped entirely but generally I always find it an entertaining watch.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    For me Goldfinger is the better film and I also think that it is more iconic because it has so much more memorable scenes that people will remember: the Golden girl, Oddjob's hat, the laser scene.... And Goldfinger is by far a more memorable and charismatic villain compared to Largo and Vargas is no match for Oddjob. TB is lucky to have Volpe as a femme fatale who is the most interesting female character in the Connery era .... but I don't find the remaining characters in TB to be so very interesting. Goldfinger also has a better plot and a superior climax but I must admit that with regard to cinematography and locations I prefer TB.



  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I would say this: If you had to pick a Bond film that is objectively the best in the series and the most representative of Bond on the whole, you have two options; GF and TSWLM.

    I'd go for Thunderball in this regard.

    @suavejmf, I was going to post the same thing yesterday, but didn't want to endure the backlash of arguing against GF. You're a brave soul.

    Ha ha. Thunderball is a better film than GF. Better script, locations, girls, plot, score, Villains, scope, action and Director......it also has sharks. It is physically impossible for Guy Hamilton to top Terence Young....because Young quite frankly 'get's Bond' more than any other Director ever....or ever will. TB is Connery's second best film after FRWL, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who thought that TB was the very best Bond film.

    @suavejmf, you shall get no argument from me on any of that. TB already wins against GF by default because Bond actually does things in the movie. I'm doing an edit of my long form review on it right now to post on my blog, and reading back what I've written I fall in love with it all over again. It's a very special film that does what few others have ever been able to since. To comprehend the logistical hurdles of the production alone is just mind-boggling, and that's without adding in all the extras, the Bondmania hoopla, the down to the wire production and all the other craziness that had to be balanced. Young and his team showed their genius at being able to bring it all in successfully and it's quite frankly a miracle it's as great as it is considering the mountain of issues that stood in its way.

    It's also the water Bond film, and no other movie can say that.

    +1.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GBF wrote: »
    For me Goldfinger is the better film and I also think that it is more iconic because it has so much more memorable scenes that people will remember: the Golden girl, Oddjob's hat, the laser scene.... And Goldfinger is by far a more memorable and charismatic villain compared to Largo and Vargas is no match for Oddjob. TB is lucky to have Volpe as a femme fatale who is the most interesting female character in the Connery era .... but I don't find the remaining characters in TB to be so very interesting. Goldfinger also has a better plot and a superior climax but I must admit that with regard to cinematography and locations I prefer TB.



    Fair enough. But I prefer Thunderballs plot which is closer to Flemings Vision. I also feel that Largo is a superior more menacing villain to Goldfinger.....as well as Celli being a better actor than Frobe. Largo is among the best villains in the series. Domino and Volpe are certainly up there in the sex appeal stakes too!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    BAIN123 wrote: »

    I agree, I've never really thought of TB as "slow". I'd say it's more leisurely.

    I agree that some of the characters should have either been developed more or dropped entirely but generally I always find it an entertaining watch.

    Yes, the secondary character such as Vargas or Kutze, for example, should have been beefed up, but alas they went down the route of more spectacle and less character development.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    There were very minor characters in the book too.....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Each to their own, for me, GF is (easily) the superior film. As for Largo and GF, no contest. GF is a force of nature.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Bond and Largo have like two conversations, that's why.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2017 Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Terence Young is the most important component with regards to the early success of Bond. Even over and above Sir Sean Connery.

    I agree with this post. Oh Wait....;)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited April 2017 Posts: 7,314
    GBF wrote: »
    Goldfinger is by far a more memorable and charismatic villain compared to Largo and Vargas is no match for Oddjob. TB is lucky to have Volpe as a femme fatale who is the most interesting female character in the Connery era .... but I don't find the remaining characters in TB to be so very interesting. Goldfinger also has a better plot and a superior climax but I must admit that with regard to cinematography and locations I prefer TB.

    That pretty much sums up my feelings. I think I also prefer TB's score, although GF's is pretty darn good as well.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    TB score is indeed superior. As is the title sequence. GF's pre-title sequence is definitely more iconic though.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    The TB pre-titles has always been the worst in the series for me. Utter silliness, and not even cool or funny - Just ridiculous and lazy. One of the worst sequences in Bond all together.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I feel the opposite way. Great song, iconic visuals and representative of the plot.
  • Thunderball is one of my favorite Bond films. Superb in many ways. The pretitles sequence is still impressive for me, because the damn rocket pack actually worked.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited April 2017 Posts: 3,000
    RC7 wrote: »
    Each to their own, for me, GF is (easily) the superior film. As for Largo and GF, no contest. GF is a force of nature.

    Agreed. I have a hard time even caring about what is going on when I watch TB, and the ending is anticlimactic and weak IMHO. Largo always felt non-threatening, like a cartoon villain. The PTS is good though.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    GBF wrote: »
    For me Goldfinger is the better film and I also think that it is more iconic because it has so much more memorable scenes that people will remember: the Golden girl, Oddjob's hat, the laser scene.... And Goldfinger is by far a more memorable and charismatic villain compared to Largo and Vargas is no match for Oddjob. TB is lucky to have Volpe as a femme fatale who is the most interesting female character in the Connery era .... but I don't find the remaining characters in TB to be so very interesting. Goldfinger also has a better plot and a superior climax but I must admit that with regard to cinematography and locations I prefer TB.

    It's got some nice images and a few nice shots, but overall it just doesn't hold up. It revels in writing Bond like an idiot, easily representing the worst he has ever performed/acted in the series, and everything after the Swiss factory makes zero sense, resulting in what I find to be one of the weakest scripts in the series. Goldfinger runs his mouth to gangsters for no reason at all, only because the writers were desperate to clue audiences into what was going on and needed to toss in a random dialogue scene. Solo dies in an awkward scene with Oddjob when he could've just been killed with the others in the planning room, but why not waste time going on a boring tangent. Bond's only plan is to sleep with Pussy in one of the most uncomfortable scenes in the franchise, but never actually knows if he's even successful with "turning her." But when he goes to the Fort Knox raid and sees people fall limp after he thinks the gas is dispersed, he has a blank reaction despite the fact that he thinks all the people are now dead. It's impossible to tell if Pussy's pilots know they aren't killing people, and it makes zero sense that many civilians in the town are faking dead too, since only the military at the base would be aware of the plan Goldfinger had. The whole film commences with the exciting images of...Bond going down in an elevator and then him being tossed around by Oddjob in what is one of the lamest fights in the entire series that only makes the henchman seem all the more overrated.

    This isn't even to consider that Goldfinger's plan would not work even close to how he described or planned it, and when the scheme is nothing but the worst of junk science you wonder what the point is.

    It's a good thing people liberally give it credit for starting so many Bond traditions, because without them I honestly don't think we'd be talking about it much. It's the least artful, structured, written, directed, shot and choreographed movie of the early 4, to an embarrassing degree. The powers of nostalgia.
    royale65 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »

    I agree, I've never really thought of TB as "slow". I'd say it's more leisurely.

    I agree that some of the characters should have either been developed more or dropped entirely but generally I always find it an entertaining watch.

    Yes, the secondary character such as Vargas or Kutze, for example, should have been beefed up, but alas they went down the route of more spectacle and less character development.

    Is someone actually going to argue that Jill, Tilly, Oddjob, Solo and basically anyone that isn't Pussy or Goldfinger were well developed characters in GF? Because it would entertain me immensely. One dies in two minutes, another is given slightly double the time with the same lack of dialogue, the third is a mute and the last is...just there.

    I was far more intrigued by Vargas' lack of sin and why that may be then I was with any questions that could've been posed by GF's cast of characters. Kutze also represents an interesting bit of symbolism in TB, showing that SPECTRE are able to break good men and force them into working against their ideals for better pay. Kutze also gets more moments on screen for his character to have an actual personality and sympathy about him as Largo's corrupted (then redeemed) partner than Mr. Ling gets working by Goldfinger in the previous film, with barely two scenes to his name and given nothing to do before being shot in a random moment.
    Bond and Largo have like two conversations, that's why.

    They have far more interactions than that, and in those scenes a lot of great animosity is built between the quiet jabs Bond and Largo give each other than there is in GF. In GF Bond calls Goldfinger badly bred and teases him about overhearing his plan, but that's kind of it. In TB Bond forces his way into Largo's card game, calls out that he's a SPECTRE agent to his face, beats him in cards while continuing to mock him, steals his woman, goes to his house to flirt with his mistress, beats his ass at clay pigeon shooting while emasculating him with more barbs, breaks into his house soon after while causing his own men to kill each other in a staged skirmish, sleeps with his mistress (underwater!), wipes out all his support staff and fellow conspirators during a parade, then goes on to unravel Largo's transportation of the nukes without breaking a sweat. The only thing Bond doesn't do to Largo is kill him, but by that point he'd robbed the man of so much masculinity and pride that he might as well have in figurative terms.

    In GF Bond is too busy getting knocked out or sleeping in his cell to do even a third of what he does in TB.
    The TB pre-titles has always been the worst in the series for me. Utter silliness, and not even cool or funny - Just ridiculous and lazy. One of the worst sequences in Bond all together.

    I think it's easily one of the most unique in the series, with literally nothing even close to it made sense. It's got variation in color and is the first use of silhouette in the series, the titles that started it all. It also ties in nicely to the theme of the film with the element of water, with Jones' song being a better anthem for the character of James Bond than anything we've heard since.

    It's one of Binder's most original pieces too, which is a big deal considering he just kept repeating himself after that point until TLD and LTK had titles where he had a bunch of random women you could barely see in all the darkness shooting pistols in random close-ups into pools of water (?!). Now that is ridiculous and lazy.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    I said pre-titles, not titles. I agree, the titles are good.

    I mean the sequence with the jet pack.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I said pre-titles, not titles. I agree, the titles are good.

    I mean the sequence with the jet pack.

    Oy, I read "pre" as "opening" somehow. I see titles and just picture credits. Sorry for the confusion.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2017 Posts: 8,400
    I said pre-titles, not titles. I agree, the titles are good.

    I mean the sequence with the jet pack.

    Oy, I read "pre" as "opening" somehow. I see titles and just picture credits. Sorry for the confusion.

    No problem, my fault. Should have been clearer. ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.