Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Okay my new controversial opinion: there's nothing wrong with the TB PTS.

    Not even Bob Simmons sexy legs?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Okay my new controversial opinion: there's nothing wrong with the TB PTS.

    Still agreed. If this is still a TB vs. GF comparison, then I heavily agree.

    The thing about the GF PTS, is that-like much of the film itself-it's rather limply and lazily written. What villain/man is Bond striking against by destroying the drugs? Who's the contact? Who's the woman (they seem to be friendly/familiar) and who the hell is Capungo? Is he a paid off agent of the no name drug guy Bond just threatened the coffers of? We know virtually nothing, and all it strives to do is look nice, barely meeting the mark. Sean in that dinner jacket is beautiful, but a PTS should also care about story and narrative progression and context, even as a little tidbit to start the movie. I don't mind when PTSs are unconnected to the main plot, but at least tell a story with the time.

    In TB, you know the story and the players from jump, because it's well written. We see the casket, and mystery forms. Is Bond dead? Then we see him watching above, and the film takes the time to explain who Bouvar is and why Bond wants (needs!) him dead. We are set as the audience and informed of what the main goal is. The film then progresses with forward momentum as the seed of doubt is planted in Bond, spotting the "woman" opening her door. We feel the mystery as he does. As Bouvar enters his home, we are surprised to see Bond in wait, and shocked all the more to see him punch who we think is a woman. Then the fight erupts, which is everything the Capungo bout isn't, giving everything a nice edge. Bond escapes, cue curtain. Because the movie works to tell us things through visuals and dialogues, the sequence feels like a mini story that we can actually describe to viewers after.

    I couldn't begin to describe the GF PTS beyond the sentence, "Bond destroys random drugs, tries to sleep with girl, oops, he doesn't."
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I'd say the only weakness for me in the TB PTS is the jetpack escape and the few moments that come after, but everything before it is superb. Not sure why I rank TB much lower than some of the other Connery installments, it's always alluded me and I've never been able to nail down exactly what problems I have with it.
  • Posts: 15,124
    The GF PTS has Bond wearing a duck for a hat/camouflage. But in TB there's a man dressed as a woman and that jet thing and that is silly. But the duck in GF is ok.
  • Posts: 7,431
    TLD fully deserved to win that poll. Cant see why TSWLM was so high! Obviously judged on one (admittedly superb!) stunt moment! The rest of it though? Ugh! A submarine being hijacked, with shaky camera moves like a bad episode of Doctor Who, boring Barbara bach and her equally boring lover (this guy was actually thought of as a contender for the role of 007!!) in bed. Gogol in his office on a red telephone, and of course its snowing outside for anyone who didn't get that it was Russia. Bond and a really dumb blonde making love (who recruited her?), Bond in that embarrassing yellow jumpsuit ("Let me see, its white everywhere so i'll never be spotted by the enemy wearing this!") and then we have a superb finish. But the rest? Top ten in the poll? Shurely shome mishtake?!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The GF PTS has Bond wearing a duck for a hat/camouflage. But in TB there's a man dressed as a woman and that jet thing and that is silly. But the duck in GF is ok.

    @Ludovico, it's what I always mean when I say some films are untouchable in the series for a shocking number of people, no matter what they do. Goldfinger could have a twenty minute section where we have to watch paint dry on a wall, but if it's got a cool car in it, someone painted gold and a guy throwing a hat, it's instantly the best movie of all time.

    I don't mind varying opinions, mind, but let's keep to a consistent standard. If GF can get away with bloody murder, what's the point?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I love both GF and TB's PTS, both are great little mini adventures.

    I do feel TB really captures the fantastic world of Bond very well.
    - Great soundtrack
    - Elaborate escape
    - DB5
    - Fist fight
    - Atmospherical chateau locations
    - Beautiful girl
    - Great oneliner: "No well-dressed man should be without one."
  • Posts: 19,339
    TLD wins best PTS imho. Nothing that's missing and Dalton's reveal is an all-time classic.

    It's cool, to a point. It physically hurts me to watch his running, though.

    Yeah he does look like he has imminently shit himself and is running full pelt to the toilet,guard or no guard...

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2017 Posts: 8,400
    Nothing tops Craig's Boston Dynamics running from Skyfall. Most cringey in the series.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The GF PTS has Bond wearing a duck for a hat/camouflage. But in TB there's a man dressed as a woman and that jet thing and that is silly. But the duck in GF is ok.

    @Ludovico, it's what I always mean when I say some films are untouchable in the series for a shocking number of people, no matter what they do. Goldfinger could have a twenty minute section where we have to watch paint dry on a wall, but if it's got a cool car in it, someone painted gold and a guy throwing a hat, it's instantly the best movie of all time.

    I don't mind varying opinions, mind, but let's keep to a consistent standard. If GF can get away with bloody murder, what's the point?

    There's an effervescence and swagger to GF that is pretty unmatchable in my opinion. DN and FRWL are brilliant, but they do retain the feel of late 50s early 60s cinema, where GF is timeless. It still feels and looks fresh and vital. Some of us forgive it the little foibles simply because the style and confidence on display keep it ticking. It's flawed, just like all Bond films, but it's tight, masterfully realised and is swept along by a completely unique score. It's absolutely deserving of its iconic status Imo and it pains me to see fans giving it a kicking. TB also has its moments of beauty and bombast, there's no doubting that, but as packages GF has a sparkle that is ever so slightly dulled in TB and is also blessed with an extra shot of the Fleming bizarre.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2017 Posts: 28,694
    Nothing tops Craig's Boston Dynamics running from Skyfall. Most cringey in the series.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, it's a run designed to be militaristic, to fit with Bond's past. I actually like that about how Dan's Bond runs , as it makes him look like a man who served in the naval branch and learned how to run in the best effort to keep his body moving in the fastest, yet most effective way. Bond has moved on to a 00 position, but can't shed his earlier training he honed in a different part of government service.
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The GF PTS has Bond wearing a duck for a hat/camouflage. But in TB there's a man dressed as a woman and that jet thing and that is silly. But the duck in GF is ok.

    @Ludovico, it's what I always mean when I say some films are untouchable in the series for a shocking number of people, no matter what they do. Goldfinger could have a twenty minute section where we have to watch paint dry on a wall, but if it's got a cool car in it, someone painted gold and a guy throwing a hat, it's instantly the best movie of all time.

    I don't mind varying opinions, mind, but let's keep to a consistent standard. If GF can get away with bloody murder, what's the point?

    There's an effervescence and swagger to GF that is pretty unmatchable in my opinion. DN and FRWL are brilliant, but they do retain the feel of late 50s early 60s cinema, where GF is timeless. It still feels and looks fresh and vital. Some of us forgive it the little foibles simply because the style and confidence on display keep it ticking. It's flawed, just like all Bond films, but it's tight, masterfully realised and is swept along by a completely unique score. It's absolutely deserving of its iconic status Imo and it pains me to see fans giving it a kicking. TB also has its moments of beauty and bombast, there's no doubting that, but as packages GF has a sparkle that is ever so slightly dulled in TB and is also blessed with an extra shot of the Fleming bizarre.

    It's not a kicking, it's just that many of us don't find it to hold up in major ways. "Tight" and "masterful" just aren't words I'd use to describe a film where such a small amount of actual storytelling occurs, and where an already limp story just plummets earlier than halfway through in unforgivable fashion. Add to that a lack of artistry, consistency and strong character work that also feels consistent, I could never in good conscience allow the film to pass the likes of DN, FRWL and TB that have all those and more. I can forgive a lot in these movies, but if Bond doesn't feel worth supporting in a film and the story is a slog, we're already in a rough spot, and that is the story of GF for me and why it loses so many points.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Nothing tops Craig's Boston Dynamics running from Skyfall. Most cringey in the series.

    I would have called it a T1000 impression, but I suppose Boston Dynamics is also fitting.

    2694284-3814203630-81325.gif
  • Posts: 19,339
    I dont find anything wrong with CraigBond's run...DaltonBond was huffing and puffing on his way to the toilet after about 1 minute....i know which Bond i would want running to save me in a life or death situation,and it wont be the luvvy actor.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    03:30-03:54



    No huffing and puffing, just a grunt as he shoves the guard aside, and another grunt as he land on the jeep. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his run, though I don't personally run like that, the rare occasions that I do run.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2017 Posts: 28,694
    03:30-03:54



    No huffing and puffing, just a grunt as he shoves the guard aside, and another grunt as he land on the jeep. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his run, though I don't personally run like that, the rare occasions that I do run.

    He looks like a dork, that's all.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    03:30-03:54



    No huffing and puffing, just a grunt as he shoves the guard aside, and another grunt as he land on the jeep. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his run, though I don't personally run like that, the rare occasions that I do run.

    He looks like a dork, that's all.

    I don't think dork has the same negative connotation as it used to, say.. back in the 1990's. But to each his own.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Jeez...we're talking about which Bond has the worst running style and Roger Moore still hasn't entered the conversation?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    03:30-03:54



    No huffing and puffing, just a grunt as he shoves the guard aside, and another grunt as he land on the jeep. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his run, though I don't personally run like that, the rare occasions that I do run.

    He looks like a dork, that's all.

    I don't think dork has the same negative connotation as it used to, say.. back in the 1990's. But to each his own.

    Dorky as in awkward, uncoordinated, silly, etc.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2017 Posts: 13,978
    Jeez...we're talking about which Bond has the worst running style and Roger Moore still hasn't entered the conversation?

    Is Rog really that bad of a runner? He fought like the Tin Man in need of oiling, but was his running so bad? And as bad as it might have been, it surely couldn't have been as bad as Steven Seagal's running style.

    vWTV4WSi2JRpC.gif
    03:30-03:54



    No huffing and puffing, just a grunt as he shoves the guard aside, and another grunt as he land on the jeep. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his run, though I don't personally run like that, the rare occasions that I do run.

    He looks like a dork, that's all.

    I don't think dork has the same negative connotation as it used to, say.. back in the 1990's. But to each his own.

    Dorky as in awkward, uncoordinated, silly, etc.

    Oh I know what I means, I meant that it isn't the insult that it used to be.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Valid point Major - I guess Roger doesn't really run at any point except up the stairs in FYEO. Seven films and he barely breaks a sweat - that's our Roger.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Roger doesn't run, he soars at slow speeds. And he uses teleportation to get to Locque and kick his ass off the cliff.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    It's a gadget called Q-Port.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Roger doesn't run, he soars at slow speeds. And he uses teleportation to get to Locque and kick his ass off the cliff.

    The Man With The Golden Run

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @MajorDSmythe, just watched that today and was even looking into Robert Patrick's training that allowed him to run as fast as possible without looking remotely fatigued.

    You aren't spying on me by any chance, are you? *begins to notice hidden cameras that weren't around yesterday*
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2017 Posts: 13,978
    If you haven't discovered the hidden camera in your toilet, then no, I haven't hidden any cameras in your house, @Creasy47. I would never do such a thing... is that the time, I er... must dash.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I didn't notice the one that's totally NOT hidden in there, so good news! I trust you completely.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    If you haven't discovered the hidden camera in your toilet, then no, I haven't hidden any cameras in your house, @Creasy47. I would never do such a thing... is that the time, I er... must dash.

    Any weird fetishes you'd like to share with the group, Major?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2017 Posts: 8,400
    TND features the best looking Bond in the series, NOT INCLUDING Connery in the first 4 films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    2694284-3814203630-81325.gif
    I've always been impressed with Robert Patrick's running in T2. Amazing how he made it so chilling even though he was a physical wimp compared to Arnie.
    vWTV4WSi2JRpC.gif
    This is bloody horrendous!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Seagal's running is akin to a wimpy, toddler-version of me hustling to the bathroom before it's too late.

    Apologies for turning this into the 'How Actors Run' thread.
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