Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 19,339
    St. John Smythe was deliberately a pompous Englishman.Bond was first and foremost there to get a photo of Stacey to send to MI6,just as he was with other people at the party.
    I liked the idea of the disguise and he got the information he needed from it.
  • We forget that some of these women were so young when they made these film, that some could probably still play a Bond girl today. Jenny Flex was only about 18 I think.

    Dame Jane was 19 for LALD, as well. I think she may be the youngest main Bond girl, but I'm not completely sure.

    Seymour isn't literally 'Dame Jane', of course. She isn't quite in the Dame Judi Dench or Dame Diana Rigg league. At least not officially. She was a superb Bond girl, though.

    I thought Jenny Flex was a greatly underused character (as was Valerie Leon's hotel recepionist in TSWLM - you've got Valerie Leon, give her more than two lines!). I found her to be potentially more interesting than Stacey.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I thought Jenny Flex was a greatly underused character (as was Valerie Leon's hotel recepionist in TSWLM - you've got Valerie Leon, give her more than two lines!). I found her to be potentially more interesting than Stacey.

    Yes, it's a shame that Doody was relatively wasted in such a small role. She would've made a great main Bond girl at some point.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    AVTAK tended to do that though. Look at how underused the henchmen are. Even their demise feels quite lazy.

    "Well we've got these two guys who had few lines and even fewer action, should we at least give them a memorable death scene?"

    "Just blow them up in the blimp and put on Duran Duran."
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,395
    I won't call Dr Mortner a henchman. If anything, Zorin was the henchman grappling with Bond. Mortner had an overview of the battle and was attempting to explode them with dynamite.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    We forget that some of these women were so young when they made these film, that some could probably still play a Bond girl today. Jenny Flex was only about 18 I think.

    Dame Jane was 19 for LALD, as well. I think she may be the youngest main Bond girl, but I'm not completely sure.

    Seymour isn't literally 'Dame Jane', of course. She isn't quite in the Dame Judi Dench or Dame Diana Rigg league. At least not officially. She was a superb Bond girl, though.

    I thought Jenny Flex was a greatly underused character (as was Valerie Leon's hotel recepionist in TSWLM - you've got Valerie Leon, give her more than two lines!). I found her to be potentially more interesting than Stacey.

    I used dame you way you would call a woman you fancy a dame. Or, at least I would. I like noir films.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited May 2017 Posts: 1,889
    It's amazing to see how much bashing Moore gets for being old (especially AVTAK). You can definitely see that he's not 40 anymore but the film kind of helps him by not ever mentioning it. It's my smallest issue with AVTAK tbh.

    And what's with the shower scene? The only thing I find strange is Q watching them in his van. :0
  • We forget that some of these women were so young when they made these film, that some could probably still play a Bond girl today. Jenny Flex was only about 18 I think.

    Dame Jane was 19 for LALD, as well. I think she may be the youngest main Bond girl, but I'm not completely sure.

    Seymour isn't literally 'Dame Jane', of course. She isn't quite in the Dame Judi Dench or Dame Diana Rigg league. At least not officially. She was a superb Bond girl, though.

    I thought Jenny Flex was a greatly underused character (as was Valerie Leon's hotel recepionist in TSWLM - you've got Valerie Leon, give her more than two lines!). I found her to be potentially more interesting than Stacey.

    I used dame you way you would call a woman you fancy a dame. Or, at least I would. I like noir films.

    That's interesting. I've never seen 'Dame' used in that context before, capitalised like a title. I'd be utterly lost in the world of noir. I've often thought I'd like to read more, though. One of my favourite quotes comes from Raymond Chandler: -

    "She was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window"

    Brilliant!

    As for Moore's age in AVTAK, it doesn't really bother me as much as some people. Yes, he should have bowed out with Octopussy, and parts of AVTAK do indeed look a little tired. But it's Moore Bond's last time round the track, and I just quite enjoy one last adventure with the old boy. I would be quite intrigued with a future film with an ageing Bond who rolls back the years one last time for Queen and Country. Whether the box office would agree with me is entirely another thing, of course.
  • Posts: 19,339
    As for Moore's age in AVTAK, it doesn't really bother me as much as some people. Yes, he should have bowed out with Octopussy, and parts of AVTAK do indeed look a little tired. But it's Moore Bond's last time round the track, and I just quite enjoy one last adventure with the old boy. I would be quite intrigued with a future film with an ageing Bond who rolls back the years one last time for Queen and Country. Whether the box office would agree with me is entirely another thing, of course.

    People seem to forget that 2 Bonds have been old men,not just Moore but Connery as well in NSNA.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It's amazing to see how much bashing Moore gets for being old (especially AVTAK). You can definitely see that he's not 40 anymore but the film kind of helps him by not ever mentioning it. It's my smallest issue with AVTAK tbh.

    And what's with the shower scene? The only thing I find strange is Q watching them in his van. :0

    Yes, exactly. That would be a valid reason to call the police.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Yes, but NSNA was unofficial and isn't even considered a Bond film by some fans. More like a fan film with Connery in it.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Yes, but NSNA was unofficial and isn't even considered a Bond film by some fans. More like a fan film with Connery in it.

    It still happened and it's still Bond.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Camille sort of wanted him. It was Bond, strangely enough, who cut it short this time.

    I never got that sense at all. Just a thank you sort of thing, in a very raw way, between two people put through the emotional ringer side by side. Bond had yet to find his inner peace, and I think the kiss was her way of saying, "I hope you get yours too."
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I love the kiss that Bond and Camille share. It's great and in the moment and says a lot about their journey together. I'm not sure the two of them hopping into bed together would've been anywhere near as good as that scene.

    Damn, QoS is an excellent movie.

    Absolutely. There's people who hate it for not conforming to Bond tropes with our agent banging the girl senseless at the end, but as with much of QoS that's why I love it: it doesn't do what you expect.

    I think there's certainly the fancy in her there too. She liked him from the start 'I didnt know geologists could be so...' . But she also sees he's on a mission, dedicated, and that there's no way in for her.

    QoS is a rather underestimated film if you ask me. There's much in there and the acting is rather good.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2017 Posts: 28,694
    We forget that some of these women were so young when they made these film, that some could probably still play a Bond girl today. Jenny Flex was only about 18 I think.

    Dame Jane was 19 for LALD, as well. I think she may be the youngest main Bond girl, but I'm not completely sure.

    Seymour isn't literally 'Dame Jane', of course. She isn't quite in the Dame Judi Dench or Dame Diana Rigg league. At least not officially. She was a superb Bond girl, though.

    I thought Jenny Flex was a greatly underused character (as was Valerie Leon's hotel recepionist in TSWLM - you've got Valerie Leon, give her more than two lines!). I found her to be potentially more interesting than Stacey.

    I used dame you way you would call a woman you fancy a dame. Or, at least I would. I like noir films.

    That's interesting. I've never seen 'Dame' used in that context before, capitalised like a title. I'd be utterly lost in the world of noir. I've often thought I'd like to read more, though. One of my favourite quotes comes from Raymond Chandler: -

    "She was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window"

    Brilliant!

    As for Moore's age in AVTAK, it doesn't really bother me as much as some people. Yes, he should have bowed out with Octopussy, and parts of AVTAK do indeed look a little tired. But it's Moore Bond's last time round the track, and I just quite enjoy one last adventure with the old boy. I would be quite intrigued with a future film with an ageing Bond who rolls back the years one last time for Queen and Country. Whether the box office would agree with me is entirely another thing, of course.

    @Jones_The_Bond, I capitalized "dame" because I had to: it started the sentence off. You should definitely get into noir, and it's well worth the time. Far and away my favorite genre.
    It's amazing to see how much bashing Moore gets for being old (especially AVTAK). You can definitely see that he's not 40 anymore but the film kind of helps him by not ever mentioning it. It's my smallest issue with AVTAK tbh.

    And what's with the shower scene? The only thing I find strange is Q watching them in his van. :0

    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.
    Camille sort of wanted him. It was Bond, strangely enough, who cut it short this time.

    I never got that sense at all. Just a thank you sort of thing, in a very raw way, between two people put through the emotional ringer side by side. Bond had yet to find his inner peace, and I think the kiss was her way of saying, "I hope you get yours too."
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I love the kiss that Bond and Camille share. It's great and in the moment and says a lot about their journey together. I'm not sure the two of them hopping into bed together would've been anywhere near as good as that scene.

    Damn, QoS is an excellent movie.

    Absolutely. There's people who hate it for not conforming to Bond tropes with our agent banging the girl senseless at the end, but as with much of QoS that's why I love it: it doesn't do what you expect.

    I think there's certainly the fancy in her there too. She liked him from the start 'I didnt know geologists could be so...' . But she also sees he's on a mission, dedicated, and that there's no way in for her.

    QoS is a rather underestimated film if you ask me. There's much in there and the acting is rather good.

    A bit of an understatement, for me. But I'm glad it only took folks nearly a decade to catch on. ;)
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    That's interesting. I've never seen 'Dame' used in that context before, capitalised like a title. I'd be utterly lost in the world of noir. I've often thought I'd like to read more, though. One of my favourite quotes comes from Raymond Chandler: -

    "She was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window"

    Brilliant!

    "The last time that I trusted a dame was in Paris in 1940. She said she was going out to get a bottle of wine. Two hours later, the Germans marched into France."

    - Sam Diamond (Peter Falk), Murder By Death (1976)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,255
    QoS is a rather underestimated film if you ask me. There's much in there and the acting is rather good.

    A bit of an understatement, for me. But I'm glad it only took folks nearly a decade to catch on. ;)

    Not quite old chap, I've been a staunch defender of the film since it came out. The only two things I don't like are 1. that terrible noise they have during the titles, and the boat-launch mistake. Other then that it's actually in my top ten. Even 5 I think. I had to get used to the car chase, but now I think it's one of the finest chases ever filmed.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.

    I'd make a bet you wouldn't say that about Q in TWINE.

    For me, all of these actors add to the nostalgia of the films, so even though they are objectively too old for their respective roles, I enjoy seeing them. It's fascinating going back to the first few films and then watching AVTAK just to see how much time changed them.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.

    I'd make a bet you wouldn't say that about Q in TWINE.

    For me, all of these actors add to the nostalgia of the films, so even though they are objectively too old for their respective roles, I enjoy seeing them. It's fascinating going back to the first few films and then watching AVTAK just to see how much time changed them.

    Are they too old for their roles? I mean, yes Moore was too old, but Moneypenny was a secretary. Nothing wrong with an old secretary, I don't think.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Yes, but NSNA was unofficial and isn't even considered a Bond film by some fans. More like a fan film with Connery in it.

    It still happened and it's still Bond.

    It's still a Bond film. I prefer it to OP too.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited May 2017 Posts: 9,032
    suavejmf wrote: »
    It's still a Bond film. I prefer it to OP too.

    + 1
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    OP is far superior.
  • Posts: 19,339
    RC7 wrote: »
    OP is far superior.

    Agreed..way way better,and it is a special Bond film to me as well,so even more so !

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I like them both. OP has always been a favourite of mine (top 10), but I also have new found appreciation for NSNA, especially as some of the time honoured traditions from the official series have been stripped away & lost over the years (gunbarrel, decent title song, Barry style scores, Adam style sets, Bond, James Bond etc. etc.).

    Moreover, NSNA broached some of the themes (older and 'past it' Bond, irrelevant
    '00' section, crazy femme fatale) well before the official series did & that's to be commended.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I actually prefer NSNA over OP by a wide margin.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 19,339
    I actually prefer NSNA over OP by a wide margin.

    The 'men in the white coats' are on their way now @ClarkDevlin !!

    scott-stapp-men-in-white-coats.jpg

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I actually prefer NSNA over OP by a wide margin.

    The 'men in the white coats' are on their way now @ClarkDevlin !!

    scott-stapp-men-in-white-coats.jpg
    Little pigs. Little pigs. Let me in.
  • Posts: 16,163
    I love both OP and NSNA equally.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited May 2017 Posts: 15,423
    NSNA, save for the soundtrack - while solid Thomas Crown-esque musical score on its own (which is what Connery was looking for, I gather, just a feeling and a remorse over turning down the role for the 1968 film whose composer was also Legrand) but unsuitable for Bond, had the essentials of a solid James Bond thriller that went missing since Connery's YOLT, coming back in OHMSS, and disappearing again after wards. OP is a Roger Moore flick with television quality direction rather than theatrical, and I highly blame Glen for that. Hence why I prefer NSNA over OP by a wide margin.

    Your turn, @barryt007, old chap! :))
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    NSNA has a more Fleming plot, better Bond girls, better villains, better one liners, better locations and Connery. OP has the gunbarrel, a better score and is too comic. NSNA wins for me.
  • Octopussy is pretty strong in the girls and villains departments too, and OP Moore stacks pretty well against NSNA Connery. NSNA has some painful music, but then OP has some painful comedy. Great motorcycle chase vs. great train stunts. Remote-controlled sharks vs. knife-throwing twins. At the end of the day it might just come down to je ne sais quoi, which hands the victory to Octopussy of course.
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