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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GetafixGetafix
    edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Going back to Octopussy, I really have no problem with Bond being dressed as a clown, thinking it's one of the smartest moments by Bond in the series.

    Watch the scene again. Bond is in a race against time to stop the bomb and is being chased by German police and US forces. There is no way he is going into that tent as he is. So like spies SHOULD do (and what Bond doesn't do enough of in the films imo), Bond uses his cover and goes in disguise to help get the mission accomplished. The most obvious disguise is obviously a clown. Notice when Bond is dressed as a clown, there is no silly moments. It's not like he does any tricks or that, or plays around with people. He is deeply worried and scared and that shows on his face when talking to the base commander. The clown costume hides the seriousness of the situation. The clown costume is needed. As such, the hate this scene is undeserved.

    Discuss

    Heartily agree. Have to say its my favourite countdown scene as Rog really sells the desperation and the fact no one actually believes him just ramps the tension right up.

    There are a lot of flaws in the India sequence but the PTS, the auction, the backgammon scene and everything after Bond arrives in Germany are practically flawless.

    The circus sequence is very well done. One of the tensest moments in any Bond movie.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Starting with Maud shooting the bomb!!!

    lol JK, it is a very intense scene and well done
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Agreed, the bomb scene in OP is fantastically done.

    I've also mentioned this before. Bond in the clown costume echoes the opening scene where the other 00 agent is killed by the twins. It's some nice foreshadowing.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    When I first saw the film I thought the clown suit was stupid but now I love that part. It's really tense.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    When I first saw the film I thought the clown suit was stupid but now I love that part. It's really tense.

    Absolutely. I've always loved that sequence. It never even occured to me that it was 'inappropriate' until I saw people bashing it here.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    Getafix wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    When I first saw the film I thought the clown suit was stupid but now I love that part. It's really tense.

    Absolutely. I've always loved that sequence. It never even occured to me that it was 'inappropriate' until I saw people bashing it here.

    Same! I just saw it as a means to an end. Nothings edgier than a clown that's not happy. Octopussy really is a cracking film all round
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    When I first saw the film I thought the clown suit was stupid but now I love that part. It's really tense.

    Absolutely. I've always loved that sequence. It never even occured to me that it was 'inappropriate' until I saw people bashing it here.

    Same! I just saw it as a means to an end. Nothings edgier than a clown that's not happy. Octopussy really is a cracking film all round

    Made back in the day when the producers and writers still really understood Bond.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    (Fake) Controversial Opinion: Bond should have super powers!!!
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    You know what, I'm going to confess...regardless of all your arguments and points to say otherwise, I have a right soft spot for A View To A Kill. It really is enjoyable with great villains and a dark tone. At university, I took all my Bond films with me and my house mates hadn't really seen a Bond film (except DC's two offerings)...AVTAK was the first film I showed them and you know what? They absolutely loved it....got rave reviews than alot of the other movies.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    You know what, I'm going to confess...regardless of all your arguments and points to say otherwise, I have a right soft spot for A View To A Kill. It really is enjoyable with great villains and a dark tone. At university, I took all my Bond films with me and my house mates hadn't really seen a Bond film (except DC's two offerings)...AVTAK was the first film I showed them and you know what? They absolutely loved it....got rave reviews than alot of the other movies.

    I don't fully understand the hate it gets. Walken is excellent and although Rog is old, he's still Rog.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    I think Zorin and Mayday were excellent though Mayday turning into an allie slightly ruined it. And yea, roger was still roger, just the body weren't there. Stacey sutton was a weak bond girl, apart from that, very good movie.

    Give me that over CR any day of the week
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited April 2012 Posts: 7,854
    AVTAK's only 2 problems: Moore's age really was getting in the way, and Mayday. Cut Mayday out, movie's fantastic. Replace her with Jaws. Richard Kiel or the shark, I don't care, just put Jaws in her place.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Agent007391 wrote:
    AVTAK's only 2 problems: Moore's age really was getting in the way, and Mayday. Cut Mayday out, movie's fantastic. Replace her with Jaws. Richard Kiel or the shark, I don't care, just put Jaws in her place.

    Mayday was a great enemy she freaks most people out, while Jaws would have recognised 007 immediately and probably would have shown him his photo's from his marriage and kids.

    O:-)
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    SaintMark wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    AVTAK's only 2 problems: Moore's age really was getting in the way, and Mayday. Cut Mayday out, movie's fantastic. Replace her with Jaws. Richard Kiel or the shark, I don't care, just put Jaws in her place.

    Mayday was a great enemy she freaks most people out, while Jaws would have recognised 007 immediately and probably would have shown him his photo's from his marriage and kids.

    O:-)

    Mayday works quite well I think. Plus Rog hated Jones, which adds to the amusement. She is better than Onatop in GE - a similarly bonkers female villain.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    I actually didn't think California Girls was that bad in AVTAK...better than THAT awful song at the end of GE.

    In some ways, AVTAK marked the end of an era of Moore, desmond Llewelyn and Lois Maxwell. Served the series impeccably. I'd argue that none of them were ever really replaced....

    AVTAK is a dark movie at times, the San FRancisco city hall scenes are tense.

    AVTAK also features Big Ron from Eastenders (an extra that used to own a stall on the market) hahahahahaha
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    ^I don't remember Desmond Llewelyn leaving in AVTAK......
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    I actually didn't think California Girls was that bad in AVTAK...better than THAT awful song at the end of GE.

    In some ways, AVTAK marked the end of an era of Moore, desmond Llewelyn and Lois Maxwell. Served the series impeccably. I'd argue that none of them were ever really replaced....

    AVTAK is a dark movie at times, the San FRancisco city hall scenes are tense.

    AVTAK also features Big Ron from Eastenders (an extra that used to own a stall on the market) hahahahahaha

    ???? Lewelyn carried on for years.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    Ah what I mean is the chemistry between them three wasn't really the same when other actors stepped in. Sorry should have explained better
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Ah what I mean is the chemistry between them three wasn't really the same when other actors stepped in. Sorry should have explained better

    May be. Llewelyn seemed to get on okay the Dalton though - LTK is Q's biggest part as well. I even thought there was decent chemistry with Brozzo.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    Connery showed disdain/disinterest to Q
    Lazenby and Q you can't really say anything about, probably same as Connery
    Moore acted like a naughty schoolboy with a supply teacher but respected his skills
    Dalton and Q had the most professional relationship
    Brosnan and Q was a poor imitation of Moore/Q
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Going back to Octopussy, I really have no problem with Bond being dressed as a clown, thinking it's one of the smartest moments by Bond in the series.

    Watch the scene again. Bond is in a race against time to stop the bomb and is being chased by German police and US forces. There is no way he is going into that tent as he is. So like spies SHOULD do (and what Bond doesn't do enough of in the films imo), Bond uses his cover and goes in disguise to help get the mission accomplished. The most obvious disguise is obviously a clown. Notice when Bond is dressed as a clown, there is no silly moments. It's not like he does any tricks or that, or plays around with people. He is deeply worried and scared and that shows on his face when talking to the base commander. The clown costume hides the seriousness of the situation. The clown costume is needed. As such, the hate this scene is undeserved.

    Discuss

    Heartily agree. Have to say its my favourite countdown scene as Rog really sells the desperation and the fact no one actually believes him just ramps the tension right up.

    There are a lot of flaws in the India sequence but the PTS, the auction, the backgammon scene and everything after Bond arrives in Germany are practically flawless.

    Good post. The strongest sequence in India, IMHO, is when Bond is climbing on the outside of the Monsoon Palace and Magda is watching. Perhaps Orlov's presence makes it more tense than the other India sequences, and certainly the score is top-notch!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Agent007391 wrote:
    AVTAK's only 2 problems: Moore's age really was getting in the way, and Mayday. Cut Mayday out, movie's fantastic. Replace her with Jaws. Richard Kiel or the shark, I don't care, just put Jaws in her place.

    Disagree. I'd rather have May Day and cut out Stacey Sutton.

  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    echo wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    AVTAK's only 2 problems: Moore's age really was getting in the way, and Mayday. Cut Mayday out, movie's fantastic. Replace her with Jaws. Richard Kiel or the shark, I don't care, just put Jaws in her place.

    Disagree. I'd rather have May Day and cut out Stacey Sutton.

    Maybe a looker but she's the worst Bond girl ever. The screeching in the lifts during the City Hall fires
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Has this surpassed 'Bond's Beards' as the longest running thread on MI6 now, must be a close run thing..

    A View to a Kill had more than two problems for sure, Moore age factor most definitely, Grace Jones should never have seen the light of day in this, of course the irritating Sutton character also, among others. There is no way in hell I would have wanted Jaws in this, should never have returned in Moonraker and John Glen even considered bringing him back for For Your Eyes Only, but we were thankfully spared that, actually reading again I thought someone may be having a poor attempt at humor with this but I did take it seriously for a moment, i.e anything better than the awful Sutton, a shark, a Jaws, a double taking pigeon etc, anything but her. Very good

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Agent007391 wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

    I still fail to see how. Other than the obvious cliches that every pre-Craig film has, what did GE have?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Agent007391 wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

    I still fail to see how. Other than the obvious cliches that every pre-Craig film has, what did GE have?

    I'm sorry, are you positive or negative on GE ?

  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    Could be, but to me, that is something positive. Pastiche is IMO better than making a new movie with very little connection to the older ones.

    And I think it should be clear to everyone (however I do respect that it isn't, mind you) that AVTAK is one of the highlights of the Bond series. IMO it has very few flaws and is in my top 5.

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