Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    I already mentioned DAD has become my second favourite Brosnan Bond. Now here's why I think this film is actually a whole lot of fun.

    On one hand they said: well in LTK he went rogue and was clearly physically wounded, let's put him in prison this time, have him tortured with scorpions, grow him a beard and let him go rogue after that.

    On the other hand they went for: we had a submersible car, let's go for an invisible one now; characters have had really silly names in the past, let's come up with the silliest name ever: Mr Kil. This film celebrates the silly nature of films like GF, YOLT, TSWLM, OP and figuratively pumped them full of amphetamines.

    I also love how Moon models his slimy Gustav Graves on James Bond: "that unjustifiable swagger."

    Brosnan has always been somewhat underused by the writers but I really like his performance in his swan song.

    DAD is no masterpiece, but it's such a fun ride. It's ludicrous nature makes it one of my favourite not-so-serious Bond films. It also was the first one I saw in cinemas and it was around this period, also including the Nightfire video game, that I became a massive fan.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I've also grown pretty fond of DAD. Once you accept it for what it is, it is a lot of fun. Dumb, OTT fun, but still fun. Visually I love it, it's very colourful and even quite 60s esque at times, all the characters are distinctive and stand out, the sets are great, etc. It really looks like a Bond film. Compare this to TND, which looks and feels like a generic 90s action movie (LTK would be an easy target for this but I'd argue that it was intentional and served that film well). There are some
    genuinely good lines as well as the so bad they're good growners. The CGI is appalling but it leads to some laugh out loud moments (the windsurfing scene). The whole thing is so bad it's fun, but there are also some genuinely good lines and action scenes, it's paced brilliantly with a nice sense of visual energy to it, and the whole thing is carried along brilliantly by Brosnan, who deserved a better send off but does a great job of making the best of what he's given.

    It's stupid but it's fun to watch and it's become a mid table Bond film for me for that reason. I'll take it over something bland and forgettable like FYEO or TND any day of the week. It isn't my least favourite Bond film (that's QoS) and I don't think it's the worst either (probably TMWTGG).

    Anyway, controversial opinion: the TWINE submarine finale is actually pretty good. The fight isn't amazing but it works since Bond was meant to be exhausted and Renard is a terrorist not some ex special forces goon, he doesn't have the training that Alec Trevelayn or Red Grant had. So the sloppy coreography actually works, and it feels like a very passionate fight. You get the sense that both men are really invested and giving it their all, it's not just Bond taking on a goon because it's his job. And the rest of it is great. Bond swimming alongside the submarine is tense, getting through the hatch and taking out the guard at the last second is an even better payoff. And the whole setup and setting makes for a very original finale, it's something that hadn't been done before (TWINE in general deserves more credit for how original it is imo).
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Controversial: Connery isn't tired or "phoning it in" while playing Bond in YOLT. The scenes obviously don't ask much from him but he still delivers. I think people say he's tired because of his age and it's already his 5th Bond film.

    The converstaion between him and Osato shows how effortlessly he can act. Even the fights are enjoyable. Maybe Connery was just too comfortable with the role and you confuse it with a lack of interest or something.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Controversial: Connery isn't tired or "phoning it in" while playing Bond in YOLT. The scenes obviously don't ask much from him but he still delivers. I think people say he's tired because of his age and it's already his 5th Bond film.

    The converstaion between him and Osato shows how effortlessly he can act. Even the fights are enjoyable. Maybe Connery was just too comfortable with the role and you confuse it with a lack of interest or something.

    For the first time in the series, he didn t get any direction. Gilbert said as much. He thought Connery knew better than him how Bond should be played.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I never got the impression of a "tired" Connery from YOLT, either. DAF, yes. But, not YOLT.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited May 2017 Posts: 11,139
    Controversial opinion: Bond's game for the most part really isn't that tight to me; and the majority (not all) of Bond's sexual conquests/romantic daliances come off as inauthentic and lack believability even within the rules/confines of Bond's universe. Bond being a "lady killer/panty dropper" is a breathtaking overstatement.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Controversial: Connery isn't tired or "phoning it in" while playing Bond in YOLT. The scenes obviously don't ask much from him but he still delivers. I think people say he's tired because of his age and it's already his 5th Bond film.

    The converstaion between him and Osato shows how effortlessly he can act. Even the fights are enjoyable. Maybe Connery was just too comfortable with the role and you confuse it with a lack of interest or something.

    For the first time in the series, he didn t get any direction. Gilbert said as much. He thought Connery knew better than him how Bond should be played.

    So, more credit to Connery then.
  • Posts: 676
    Controversial: Connery isn't tired or "phoning it in" while playing Bond in YOLT. The scenes obviously don't ask much from him but he still delivers. I think people say he's tired because of his age and it's already his 5th Bond film.

    The converstaion between him and Osato shows how effortlessly he can act. Even the fights are enjoyable. Maybe Connery was just too comfortable with the role and you confuse it with a lack of interest or something.

    For the first time in the series, he didn t get any direction. Gilbert said as much. He thought Connery knew better than him how Bond should be played.

    So, more credit to Connery then.
    Or to Young, who showed Connery how to play Bond and got good performances out of him.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I think I may have said this earlier in the thread but as I'm watching it again:

    Maud Adams is quite bad in OP.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I agree.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Milovy wrote: »
    Controversial: Connery isn't tired or "phoning it in" while playing Bond in YOLT. The scenes obviously don't ask much from him but he still delivers. I think people say he's tired because of his age and it's already his 5th Bond film.

    The converstaion between him and Osato shows how effortlessly he can act. Even the fights are enjoyable. Maybe Connery was just too comfortable with the role and you confuse it with a lack of interest or something.

    For the first time in the series, he didn t get any direction. Gilbert said as much. He thought Connery knew better than him how Bond should be played.

    So, more credit to Connery then.
    Or to Young, who showed Connery how to play Bond and got good performances out of him.

    Either way, I guess it wasn't so controversial after all.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: Bond's game for the most part really isn't that tight to me; and the majority (not all) of Bond's sexual conquests/romantic daliances come off as inauthentic and lack believability even within the rules/confines of Bond's universe. Bond being a "lady killer/panty dropper" is a breathtaking overstatement.

    I agree. Bond is more of a caricature of a playboy. Most of Bond's "moves" would not work in real life. Many of Bond's advances are, at best, cringeworthy and, at worst, would get you pepper sprayed. With a girl that you already have a relationship with, the occasional Moore-ism could be good for a laugh, but not for a pick up line.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I think like anything, it would depend on the girl and the 'playa'. Chemistry, attitude and state of mind during the play is critical. However I agree, in general he'd get a slap.

    I watched Vicky Cristina Barcelona yesterday. Bardem's Spaniard Juan made the smoothest move I've seen on Rebecca Hall & Scarlett Johansson's vacationing characters (a double play no less). My respects.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Controversial opinion: Roger Moore, in TMWTGG, is a layered performance; everything from him being taken "to school" (showing discomfort and genuine fear), to his first meeting with Scaramanga ("nut?") to his "last supper" with Scaramanga--

    Is this RM's best performance????
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Not controversial, several of us, me and @bondjames for two, have been touting that for awhile.
    Yes, agreed. Great work by Sir Rog in that film. Deadly charming.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 676
    Funny, I was just going to post in here what might be considered a controversial opinion of my own - that Moore gives two of the most unlikeable Bond performances in TMWTGG and LALD. I used to appreciate his harder edge when I was younger, when I cared more about the movies resembling the novels. But Moore's Bond in these movies doesn't even resemble Fleming's Bond. He's a miserable, manipulative asshole who cares for no one around him. It's like watching the scene of Connery slapping Tatiana, except stretched to a whole movie. Not fun to watch IMO. I prefer Bond to be more of a gentleman. (Similarly, I also dislike how bitchy Bond generally is in SP.)
  • Posts: 11,189
    peter wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: Roger Moore, in TMWTGG, is a layered performance; everything from him being taken "to school" (showing discomfort and genuine fear), to his first meeting with Scaramanga ("nut?") to his "last supper" with Scaramanga--

    Is this RM's best performance????

    I'd say FYEO is his most "layered" performance. He's compassionate to Melina, tough, focused and occasionally funny. He also has the best "smirk at his chasers" when he's in the Citroen.
  • ConnerysCousinConnerysCousin Melbourne, Australia
    edited May 2017 Posts: 12
    I can't take LALD seriously at all. Sir Roger was brilliant in it, so it's not the acting at fault here: it's the story that I find bizarre, more so than any other Bond film.
  • Anyway, controversial opinion: the TWINE submarine finale is actually pretty good. The fight isn't amazing but it works since Bond was meant to be exhausted and Renard is a terrorist not some ex special forces goon, he doesn't have the training that Alec Trevelayn or Red Grant had. So the sloppy coreography actually works, and it feels like a very passionate fight. You get the sense that both men are really invested and giving it their all, it's not just Bond taking on a goon because it's his job. And the rest of it is great. Bond swimming alongside the submarine is tense, getting through the hatch and taking out the guard at the last second is an even better payoff. And the whole setup and setting makes for a very original finale, it's something that hadn't been done before (TWINE in general deserves more credit for how original it is imo).

    Absolutely. I've always loved that whole sequence where Bond swims along the outside of the sub, culminating in that awesome bit where Bond waits for Christmas to drain the chamber. Brosnan sells that momentary panic perfectly. I always put myself in Bond's shoes there. I mean, there's absolutely nothing you could do but wait to drown if Christmas doesn't come through.

    Brings a whole new meaning to "Waiting for Christmas." ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    I can't take LALD seriously at all. Sir Roger was brilliant in it, so it's not the acting at fault here: it's the story that I find bizarre, more so than any other Bond film.

    benign bizarre, i think is the word ;-)
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think the biggest issue I have with LALD is it all seems a bit tatty and dated. Some of the humour annoying too and not funny. How did Mrs Bell end up intensive care? Did Bond cause her to have a heart attack?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue I have with LALD is it all seems a bit tatty and dated. Some of the humour annoying too and not funny. How did Mrs Bell end up intensive care? Did Bond cause her to have a heart attack?

    Well by the looks of her she certainly was in shock.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Controversial opinion.

    The entire first act of CR adds nothing to the film.
  • Posts: 676
    What about killing Mollaka and getting chewed out for it? You need that part. Bond's character arc in that movie is learning to aim for the kneecaps instead of killing leads.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 12,466
    I think the first act of CR is essential to building Bond's character and showing how much of a loose cannon he could be in his first missions. Craig's Bond has a noticeable transformation just within CR, besides his four films.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The first act is essential teeing up the rest of the film. Besides its narrative importance it's also just a damn fine bit of cinema.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,395
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think the first act of CR is essential to building Bond's character and showing how much of a loose cannon he could be. Craig's Bond has a noticeable transformation just within CR, besides his four films.

    They show plenty of times Bond being a loose cannon throughout the film. The subplot of Bond being green doesn't really add anything in the end. Him being new to the service is just a pointless layer of characterization that does little but weight down the narrative. The real arc starts once he meets Vesper.
  • Posts: 676
    Also, it's satisfying to see Bond as the one who originally puts Le Chiffre between a rock and a hard place.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Milovy wrote: »
    Also, it's satisfying to see Bond as the one who originally puts Le Chiffre between a rock and a hard place.

    That happens in the second act.
  • Posts: 676
    It builds from the moment Bond takes out Mollaka.
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