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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    w2bond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    You came to the right thread! It's quite the opposite to me, gives the movies a sense of wonder and scale

    Agreed. Especially "Flight into Space". Fantastic piece of music.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Moonraker and Skyfall are two of the best Bond films ever made.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Agreed.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote: »
    June 2017 comments

    1) Judi Dench is the worst thing to happen to the Bond series

    2) The time has come for the Broccoli's/Wilson's to leave the franchise - they've simply run out of steam and good ideas

    3) Goldfinger sees Bond, the character, at his worst - he spends the majority of the movie as prisoner!

    4) For Your Eyes Only Blofeld is better than Spectre Blofeld - such a wasted opportunity and very rushed (see point 2)

    5) Octopussy is the most serious and tense Bond movie of the series - the whole Germany sequence is exquisitively tense!

    6) With each new Craig film, Die Another Day gets better and better

    7) The emotional, Bourne elements of the Craig era will eventually kill the franchise. Has been done to death now

    These aren't controversial, they're ridiculous.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    w2bond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    You came to the right thread! It's quite the opposite to me, gives the movies a sense of wonder and scale

    "Wonder and scale"
    Very well put!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MR is one of Barry's strongest scores.

    Moonraker is my favourite Barry Bond score.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MR is one of Barry's strongest scores.

    Moonraker is my favourite Barry Bond score.
    It truly transcends the film. Same goes for TMWTGG & DAF imho.
  • RobertsonRobertson
    edited June 2017 Posts: 170
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    The Living Daylights score is by far Barry's worst.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Murdock wrote: »
    Agreed.
    Agreed as well.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Robertson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    The Living Daylights score is by far Barry's worst.

    I think its one his best. I have a hard time thinking of a bad Barry score, especially with how bad Contis and Kamens scores were.
  • RobertsonRobertson
    Posts: 170
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    Robertson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    The Living Daylights score is by far Barry's worst.

    I think its one his best. I have a hard time thinking of a bad Barry score, especially with how bad Contis and Kamens scores were.

    Barry's work on TLD made a boring film even more boring.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    Robertson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    The Living Daylights score is by far Barry's worst.

    I think its one his best. I have a hard time thinking of a bad Barry score, especially with how bad Contis and Kamens scores were.
    Yep!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    IF i had to pick the weakest Barry score. Its probably Octopussy
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AVTAK for me.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Barry's weakest scores were his 90's post Bond efforts I'm afraid to say.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited June 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I'm gonna go for the unoriginal answer and say that his score for TMWTGG as his weakest. TLD is actually my favourite.

    Speaking of Barry, something that might be controversial is that I can't stand his use of the Bond theme in his 80s efforts, particuarly in the gunbarrels, and this actually highlighted Moore's age in a weird way: I think that variation of the Bond theme is what you'd expect to play if your granddad was James Bond. The Bond theme is meant to sound cool, sexy and dangerous. He made it sound almost peaceful, completely lacking in edge. Compare the gunbarrel of OP, AVTAK or TLD to the GF one. Or compare the use of it during the OP train chase to the use of it in TWINE when Bond jumps out the window. It's really weird because his action cues were still really exciting during this era, so I'm not sure why we got such lifeless, sedentary variations on the Bond theme. Ideally it should be played on a guitar but at the very least it needs to sound cool, exciting and dangerous.
  • RobertsonRobertson
    Posts: 170
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I'm gonna go for the unoriginal answer and say that his score for TMWTGG as his weakest.

    TMWTGG has a beautiful score, complimenting a beautiful film.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Robertson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The MR soundtrack is easily Barry's worst, just lacking in energy.

    The Living Daylights score is by far Barry's worst.

    No question about it.
    Disagree wholeheartedly. One of his best (and so is MR). The only Barry score to single out for the worst (meaning only about 5/10 points better than the best Hans Zimmer effort) is TMWTGG. Fits the atmosphere, but stupid theme song, and very little material.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I like all of Barry's scores. The ones that I am least impressed with are GF & AVTAK, for different reasons.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    The "Wine With Stacey" theme is one of my favourite Barry tracks. That alone elevates AVTAK's score for me.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited June 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Moonraker may not be my favorite Barry (AVTAK, OHMSS, and YOLT take those honors), but MR follows very close behind. It's a tremendous, sweeping score full of color and romance and dark splendor. I believe Barry had originally intended to compose it as some kind of grand symphony that could stand independent from the film (read that somewhere and it's kind of a bizarre and surprising idea given the actual film itself), but you really do hear the inspiration from that in the finished product. "Flight Into Space" alone sounds like a gauntlet thrown at Holst.

    My least favorites? TMWTGG just isn't up to par for me with the rest of Barry's greatness. I like much of TLD, but the electronic work weighs it down in areas. FRWL has standout tracks—especially the opening titles and "James Bond with Bongos"—but overall doesn't do as much as some of Barry's others.

    The rest? TB and especially DAF are both tremendous scores. GF is classic with some really powerful, aggressive tracks (though "Dawn Raid at Fort Knox" gives me a headache). And I'll concede OP as a whole doesn't reach the same heights as some others, but there are a few impossibly gorgeous cues like "That's My Little Octopussy" as Barry was entering his romantic period that elevate OP substantially for me.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Moonraker may not be my favorite Barry (AVTAK, OHMSS, and YOLT take those honors), but MR follows very close behind. It's a tremendous, sweeping score full of color and romance and dark splendor. I believe Barry had originally intended to compose it as some kind of grand symphony that could stand independent from the film (read that somewhere and it's kind of a bizarre and surprising idea given the actual film itself), but you really do hear the inspiration from that in the finished product. "Flight Into Space" alone sounds like a gauntlet thrown at Holst.

    I wonder if it was intended to capitalize on John Williams' Star Wars score.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited June 2017 Posts: 6,844
    echo wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Moonraker may not be my favorite Barry (AVTAK, OHMSS, and YOLT take those honors), but MR follows very close behind. It's a tremendous, sweeping score full of color and romance and dark splendor. I believe Barry had originally intended to compose it as some kind of grand symphony that could stand independent from the film (read that somewhere and it's kind of a bizarre and surprising idea given the actual film itself), but you really do hear the inspiration from that in the finished product. "Flight Into Space" alone sounds like a gauntlet thrown at Holst.

    I wonder if it was intended to capitalize on John Williams' Star Wars score.

    That very well might have been some of the inspiration for Barry. I'll have to look up just what his thoughts on it were. I'm sure Burlingame's book has something on it.

    EDIT:

    Excerpts on the subject from Jon Burlingame's outstanding The Music of James Bond:

    "Barry's original idea was to write an eight-movement symphonic work and record it with the prestigious Orchestre de Paris while production was still under way."

    "He had done this once before, in 1966, with excellent results."

    "He had hoped to turn it into a two-LP set à la the colossally successful Star Wars album; Broccoli agreed, Barry said, and was going to talk it over with United Artists. It was an ambitious, brilliant concept. It went nowhere."
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Maybe this isn't quite so controversial but I would like to say that I don't consider any of the Bond scores to be weak. Sure, some are better than others but I think we've been spoiled when it comes to music in our beloved franchise.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Maybe this isn't quite so controversial but I would like to say that I don't consider any of the Bond scores to be weak. Sure, some are better than others but I think we've been spoiled when it comes to music in our beloved franchise.

    True. There really has been quite excellent music throughout. A few things to gripe about and one or two close calls (like Serra's original tank chase muzak) and Norman's clunky underscore for Dr. No does all that it can to try to sink the Bond boat before it's left port, but on the whole a very strong series musically.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I disagree. Up to 1995, yes. Either we had Barry's brilliance or memorable (even if eccentric) scores by one off composers. From 1997 to 2002 is the most abysmal time in Bond history as far as I'm concerned (for music and other things too). 2006 to 2015 has been far better, but still nowhere near the levels of the earlier era.

    They definitely need to bring in someone new and up the quality level on the score for the next one.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    1997 to 2002 was a great time for Bond music if you ask me, but I'm a fan of that techno inspired, rapid pace "busy" music. I do agree though, they need to update the Bond sound for the modern day.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Skyfall and Spectre's scores are the weakest of the weak to me.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Murdock wrote: »
    Skyfall and Spectre's scores are the weakest of the weak to me.

    Agreed, were at a low point in that regard. The only way is up.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    A new composer is needed, as is a new screenwriter (or Haggis one more time for Craig). Babs plus a good script will woo him back.

    Another controversial (and depressing) opinion: since GF, there have not been two completely satisfying Bond films back-to-back.
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