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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.
    I wouldn't even call AWTD a 'song'. It certainly isn't music. An average arabian dance is like Beethoven compared to that shouting fest.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.

    I don't mind TND but I would have preferred 'Surrender',but I do like TWINE a lot I must admit.a

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.

    I don't mind TND but I would have preferred 'Surrender',but I do like TWINE a lot I must admit.a
    Nothing wrong with that sentiment. It's a great song.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I think it is difficult to bring out a well judged title track today since people either criticise that it is not Bondian enough or that it is too Bondian and therefore just a replica of the 60s songs.

    I actually like most of the Bond songs. I think that TWINE is very underrated and not worse than most of the older Bond songs. The best is and will however always be "Live and Let Die" followed by YOLT and DAF. The rest very much depends on my mood. But I think my favourite songs from the post Barry era are TWINE and SF.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Concerning title songs I don't think we have had too much to complain about. I even like DAD.

    AWTD might be my least favourite.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited June 2017 Posts: 19,339
    And yet the opening of AWTD is used in many adverts or promotions for film seasons etc by the TV companies.
    It's arguably the Bond song that is used the most commercially !
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,418
    I would certainly take AWTD over DAD, which is appallng and downright unlistenable. TWINE is ok, but Garbage were capable of better, as their sound really suits Bond theme.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I would certainly take AWTD over DAD, which is appallng and downright unlistenable. TWINE is ok, ....

    +1
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    And yet the opening of AWTD is used in many adverts or promotions for film seasons etc by the TV companies.
    It's arguably the Bond song that is used the most commercially !

    Ironic since it's generally disliked.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Bu
    Ludovico wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    And yet the opening of AWTD is used in many adverts or promotions for film seasons etc by the TV companies.
    It's arguably the Bond song that is used the most commercially !

    Ironic since it's generally disliked.

    But to be fair,the opening guitar play is brilliant and you can see how commercial companies would like it for TV
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    The strongest pairing since GF might be LTK-GE.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    I've always liked both songs. I do think that the Brosnan era (3/4) has slightly better songs than the Craig era (2/4).
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I think I might have said this before but it seems controversial. I read a lot about how the Brosnan era featured a Bond who was dumb down and how Craig is a return to a Bond who uses his wits rather than relying on gadgets. And fair enough the gadgets in the Brosnan era did get excessive. But I think Brosnan's films had some of the best examples of Bond using his wits and thinking on his feet in the series. Escaping the facility via the conveyor belt in GE. The bankers office escape in TWINE. Using the henchman as a meat shield then throwing him in the sea to fake his death in the TND finale. Knocking out the dickhead from the bar and pushing him round in a wheelchair to get into the clinic in DAD. Macgyvering the trolley with the propane tank to blow a hole in the wall in DAD. Taking apart the rocket sled and using it to surf the tsunami in DAD (okay I never said the examples were always going to be credible). Sure there are occasions where his life is saved by a gadget but every Bond has had those, even Connery. And even his use of gadgets sometimes demonstrated his ability to think on his feet (tricking Kauffman with the phone, using the ejector seat to flip the Vanquish and dodge the incoming rocket).

    So Brosnan's Bond was far from the mindless gadget reliant action hero he's made out to be imo. He's just as skilled and capable as the rest of them, and maybe the most resourceful Bond of all. People say he isn't credible as a secret agent but I think he is. His credibility just comes from his resourcefulness as a spy rather than his physique or physicality.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Can't agree on TND (wish they'd gone with Surrender) but I'm also a fan of TWINE's theme. Don't really get why that one isn't highly regarded (although I think that about pretty much the entire film to be honest).
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I think I might have said this before but it seems controversial. I read a lot about how the Brosnan era featured a Bond who was dumb down and how Craig is a return to a Bond who uses his wits rather than relying on gadgets. And fair enough the gadgets in the Brosnan era did get excessive. But I think Brosnan's films had some of the best examples of Bond using his wits and thinking on his feet in the series. Escaping the facility via the conveyor belt in GE. The bankers office escape in TWINE. Using the henchman as a meat shield then throwing him in the sea to fake his death in the TND finale. Knocking out the dickhead from the bar and pushing him round in a wheelchair to get into the clinic in DAD. Macgyvering the trolley with the propane tank to blow a hole in the wall in DAD. Taking apart the rocket sled and using it to surf the tsunami in DAD (okay I never said the examples were always going to be credible). Sure there are occasions where his life is saved by a gadget but every Bond has had those, even Connery. And even his use of gadgets sometimes demonstrated his ability to think on his feet (tricking Kauffman with the phone, using the ejector seat to flip the Vanquish and dodge the incoming rocket).

    So Brosnan's Bond was far from the mindless gadget reliant action hero he's made out to be imo. He's just as skilled and capable as the rest of them, and maybe the most resourceful Bond of all. People say he isn't credible as a secret agent but I think he is. His credibility just comes from his resourcefulness as a spy rather than his physique or physicality.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Can't agree on TND (wish they'd gone with Surrender) but I'm also a fan of TWINE's theme. Don't really get why that one isn't highly regarded (although I think that about pretty much the entire film to be honest).

    Post of the day right there...cant argue on any point...I agree on all of it !
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I think I might have said this before but it seems controversial. I read a lot about how the Brosnan era featured a Bond who was dumb down and how Craig is a return to a Bond who uses his wits rather than relying on gadgets. And fair enough the gadgets in the Brosnan era did get excessive. But I think Brosnan's films had some of the best examples of Bond using his wits and thinking on his feet in the series. Escaping the facility via the conveyor belt in GE. The bankers office escape in TWINE. Using the henchman as a meat shield then throwing him in the sea to fake his death in the TND finale. Knocking out the dickhead from the bar and pushing him round in a wheelchair to get into the clinic in DAD. Macgyvering the trolley with the propane tank to blow a hole in the wall in DAD. Taking apart the rocket sled and using it to surf the tsunami in DAD (okay I never said the examples were always going to be credible). Sure there are occasions where his life is saved by a gadget but every Bond has had those, even Connery. And even his use of gadgets sometimes demonstrated his ability to think on his feet (tricking Kauffman with the phone, using the ejector seat to flip the Vanquish and dodge the incoming rocket).

    So Brosnan's Bond was far from the mindless gadget reliant action hero he's made out to be imo. He's just as skilled and capable as the rest of them, and maybe the most resourceful Bond of all. People say he isn't credible as a secret agent but I think he is. His credibility just comes from his resourcefulness as a spy rather than his physique or physicality.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Can't agree on TND (wish they'd gone with Surrender) but I'm also a fan of TWINE's theme. Don't really get why that one isn't highly regarded (although I think that about pretty much the entire film to be honest).

    Post of the day right there...cant argue on any point...I agree on all of it !

    +2!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    My ranking of the combined songs from the Brosnan and Craig eras:

    1) Surrender [and then nothing for quite a while]. Contender for best Bond theme ever, if only they had kept it as the theme instead of relegating it to the end credits.
    2) GoldenEye. Tina Turner is a legend, Bono & The Edge know how to write great songs.
    3) The World Is Not Enough. I had never heard about Garbage before the movie, nor have I afterwards. But this is quite a Bondish theme which I like. Easily the best thing about this mess of a boring, convoluted movie.
    4) Tomorrow Never Dies. While exchanging k.d. lang for Sheryl Crow was a case of stunt casting to cater to popular tastes, the song itself is not bad at all. Just three classes worse than "Surrender".
    5) You Know My Name. Nice rock song, decent lyrics. But I have no emotional connection to Chris Cornell (basically tuned out of listening to popular music in the late 80s and 90s, can't stand Grunge and the like and have never understood some people's affection for, say, Oasis and Nirvana either) and don't like the singing style. Also I'm rather particular to strong female voices for Bond songs.
    6) Skyfall. Nice song, but I don't like Adele (notwithstanding the aforesaid). I don't even think she sings particularly well. Give me just about every other female singer in the franchise over her (minus No. 10 below).
    7) The Writing's On The Wall. Balladesque enough, but sorry, falsetto just isn't my thing. Bond songs need power, and that's not what this conveys to me.
    8) The Experience Of Love. Forgettable as a Bond song, but once you listen to it, not a bad work. Has a certain Sting-ish touch about it. Just sort of unmotivated for accompanying the GoldenEye closing credits.
    9) Another Way To Die. When I first heard it in a YouTube clip before QOS came out, I wondered if they really meant it. But it's grown on me, and I think it stands up nicely as a theme...at least for a movie that seems as torn and pieced-together as this song.
    10) Die Another Day. The best thing one can say about it that it is quite suited to accompany a torture scene. Madonna is a marketing phenomenon equipped with a mediocre voice making subprime music, and this is one of her worst. Best forgotten, and therefore in line with the entire movie.

    But in spite of the DAD mess, in terms of music the Brosnan "era" beats the Craig period easily overall.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I think I might have said this before but it seems controversial. I read a lot about how the Brosnan era featured a Bond who was dumb down and how Craig is a return to a Bond who uses his wits rather than relying on gadgets. And fair enough the gadgets in the Brosnan era did get excessive. But I think Brosnan's films had some of the best examples of Bond using his wits and thinking on his feet in the series. Escaping the facility via the conveyor belt in GE. The bankers office escape in TWINE. Using the henchman as a meat shield then throwing him in the sea to fake his death in the TND finale. Knocking out the dickhead from the bar and pushing him round in a wheelchair to get into the clinic in DAD. Macgyvering the trolley with the propane tank to blow a hole in the wall in DAD. Taking apart the rocket sled and using it to surf the tsunami in DAD (okay I never said the examples were always going to be credible). Sure there are occasions where his life is saved by a gadget but every Bond has had those, even Connery. And even his use of gadgets sometimes demonstrated his ability to think on his feet (tricking Kauffman with the phone, using the ejector seat to flip the Vanquish and dodge the incoming rocket).

    So Brosnan's Bond was far from the mindless gadget reliant action hero he's made out to be imo. He's just as skilled and capable as the rest of them, and maybe the most resourceful Bond of all. People say he isn't credible as a secret agent but I think he is. His credibility just comes from his resourcefulness as a spy rather than his physique or physicality.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Can't agree on TND (wish they'd gone with Surrender) but I'm also a fan of TWINE's theme. Don't really get why that one isn't highly regarded (although I think that about pretty much the entire film to be honest).

    Post of the day right there...cant argue on any point...I agree on all of it !

    +2!

    Make that three of us!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bu
    Ludovico wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    And yet the opening of AWTD is used in many adverts or promotions for film seasons etc by the TV companies.
    It's arguably the Bond song that is used the most commercially !

    Ironic since it's generally disliked.

    But to be fair,the opening guitar play is brilliant and you can see how commercial companies would like it for TV

    I don't like the song, but the opening guitar is quite good. I guess that outside the Bond world, a song or a score can gain a second life.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I think I might have said this before but it seems controversial. I read a lot about how the Brosnan era featured a Bond who was dumb down and how Craig is a return to a Bond who uses his wits rather than relying on gadgets. And fair enough the gadgets in the Brosnan era did get excessive. But I think Brosnan's films had some of the best examples of Bond using his wits and thinking on his feet in the series. Escaping the facility via the conveyor belt in GE. The bankers office escape in TWINE. Using the henchman as a meat shield then throwing him in the sea to fake his death in the TND finale. Knocking out the dickhead from the bar and pushing him round in a wheelchair to get into the clinic in DAD. Macgyvering the trolley with the propane tank to blow a hole in the wall in DAD. Taking apart the rocket sled and using it to surf the tsunami in DAD (okay I never said the examples were always going to be credible). Sure there are occasions where his life is saved by a gadget but every Bond has had those, even Connery. And even his use of gadgets sometimes demonstrated his ability to think on his feet (tricking Kauffman with the phone, using the ejector seat to flip the Vanquish and dodge the incoming rocket).

    So Brosnan's Bond was far from the mindless gadget reliant action hero he's made out to be imo. He's just as skilled and capable as the rest of them, and maybe the most resourceful Bond of all. People say he isn't credible as a secret agent but I think he is. His credibility just comes from his resourcefulness as a spy rather than his physique or physicality.

    @thelivingroyale Excellent and insightful post! Even as a huge Brosnan fan, those points had never occurred to me.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,139
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.

    AWTD is weak. TWOTW is trash.

    On another note, Brosnan Bond is much more entertaining to watch than Craig Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.

    AWTD is weak. TWOTW is trash.
    +1
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Allright, controversial then: I love TWINE and TND as songs, they're top notch!

    Agreed, but I would say "solid" instead of "top notch". AWTD and TWOTW are weak IMO.

    AWTD is weak. TWOTW is trash.

    On another note, Brosnan Bond is much more entertaining to watch than Craig Bond.

    yes!! :D
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    It's easier to get through Brozza's entries (excluding TWINE) for me because they don't have the continuity element and also because they are quite breezy fun, despite descending into poor pastiche on more than one occasion. So yes I concur, but with reservations.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2017 Posts: 6,297
    I find TND boring beyond words. Hamburg, "Vietnam," a final fight on a ship? YAWN. I'd rather watch any other Bond film when it's on. DAD is at least rewatchable. It's riveting in its awfulness.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's easier to get through Brozza's entries (excluding TWINE) for me because they don't have the continuity element and also because they are quite breezy fun, despite descending into poor pastiche on more than one occasion. So yes, I concur, but with reservations.

    That's it, cheerful, vibrant, stylish. The Brosnan films aren't my favourite by any means but the era we're in at the moment has really given me pause to appreciate those films more.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's easier to get through Brozza's entries (excluding TWINE) for me because they don't have the continuity element and also because they are quite breezy fun, despite descending into poor pastiche on more than one occasion. So yes, I concur, but with reservations.

    That's it, cheerful, vibrant, stylish. The Brosnan films aren't my favourite by any means but the era we're in at the moment has really given me pause to appreciate those films more.
    I have to agree.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I've always loved the Brosnan films. It's nice to know others are seeing the value in them.
  • RobertsonRobertson
    Posts: 170
    @RC7 Brosnan is the best Bond after Sir Roger.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    Is the novel MR unadaptable? From MR to GE to DAD, the filmmakers seem to keep stumbling with it.
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