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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I think we can agree that Craig and Connery (at least in his earlier films) had a naturally tougher edge to them.

    Brosnan could do a good stern stare as shown here, but I'm not sure he was especially tough.

    09-Pierce-Brosnan-James-Bond-007-GoldenEye-suit.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    They all do, except Dalton (who was more ruthless in his 2nd outing) and Laz (for obvious reasons). They all start out harder edged and lose it as they go on.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Brosnan was quite mean in GE and TND and TWINE as well actually.
    Some people just want to overlook it so they can praise Craig once more for being so much better *eyeroll
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Brosnan was quite mean in GE and TND and TWINE as well actually.
    Some people just want to overlook it so they can praise Craig once more for being so much better *eyeroll

    I agree.

    "No, for me."

    "You forgot the first rule of mass media, Eliot. You've got to give the people what they want!"

    "I never miss."

    Even the way he killed Graves, although under corny circumstances, was rather hard edged.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Absolutely @BMW_with_missiles

    Brosnan's fight with Alec is great, so is the sword fight with Gustav. And don't forget the control room in Carver's media center.

    I should watch GE and DAD tonight damn... :P
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Bond should look at least a little cruel. Brosnan looks like a catalogue model.

    Did Moore look cruel?

    Brosnan may be a tad too pretty but at least he isn't blonde, short and looks like a thug or chav half of the time.

    You know, you might have a point there.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I think "Goldeneye Overture", "Backseat Driver", "come in 007 your time is up" and "ice inc" represent the pinnacle of Bond music since Barry left in 1987. I really dig the techno sound, although it has to be done well to work.
  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2017 Posts: 10,512
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I think "Goldeneye Overture", "Backseat Driver", "come in 007 your time is up" and "ice inc" represent the pinnacle of Bond music since Barry left in 1987. I really dig the techno sound, although it has to be done well to work.

    I agree. (I'd chuck a few slow burners in there too).
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I think "Goldeneye Overture", "Backseat Driver", "come in 007 your time is up" and "ice inc" represent the pinnacle of Bond music since Barry left in 1987. I really dig the techno sound, although it has to be done well to work.

    I agree, though I would rank GoldenEye Overture the least of them. I miss David Arnold.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I agree wholeheartedly on the Goldeneye Overture but not the rest. The Serra track is in a different league. The others are forgettable and dated ear sores as far as I'm concerned. I'm grateful we've moved on.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I think "Goldeneye Overture", "Backseat Driver", "come in 007 your time is up" and "ice inc" represent the pinnacle of Bond music since Barry left in 1987. I really dig the techno sound, although it has to be done well to work.

    some good choices there. I'm also tempted to throw in "It's What Keeps You Alone"
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I think "Goldeneye Overture", "Backseat Driver", "come in 007 your time is up" and "ice inc" represent the pinnacle of Bond music since Barry left in 1987. I really dig the techno sound, although it has to be done well to work.

    some good choices there. I'm also tempted to throw in "It's What Keeps You Alone"

    And don't forget the epic 8:30 track White Knight that plays to the PTS of TND.
    Those eight and a half minute are better than the whole SF and SP soundtrack together. Well, that's not even difficult to achieve actually.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Agree, White Knight is a great accompaniment to a fantastic PTS.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    I think the biggest flaw of the last two Bond films have to be its scores.
    Newman is just wrong for Bond, let's face it. His scores will forever stand as an example of how Bond is not done. What a shame.

    Just imagine David Arnold had provided SF and SP with something as fantastic as he did for QOS and CR!!

    This is what SF should have sounded like!!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Newman nailed SF. He should have remained a 'one off', & the same applies to Mendes.
  • MilovyMilovy
    Posts: 676
    bondjames wrote: »
    Newman nailed SF. He should have remained a 'one off', & the same applies to Mendes.
    Agreed.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    He put the last nail into SF's soundtrack coffin yes.

    Besides Grand Bazaar Istanbul the soundtrack is crap and more elevator music than anything else.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Brosnan was quite mean in GE and TND and TWINE as well actually.
    Some people just want to overlook it so they can praise Craig once more for being so much better *eyeroll

    IMO Brosnan was all over the place in TND. Not his fault but Bond was written very inconsistently.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    echo wrote: »
    Is the novel MR unadaptable? From MR to GE to DAD, the filmmakers seem to keep stumbling with it.
    With the reboot and a new timestream, Moonraker is perfectly adaptable. Ready for the kind of update to the 21st Century that worked to well for Casino Royale.

    The filmmakers should go for it. White Cliffs of Dover!
    White-Cliffs.jpgcliffs1_02.jpg
  • RobertsonRobertson
    Posts: 170
    @RichardTheBruce Yawn.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    Mmm. Not controversial enough.

    With Dalton as OO7!
  • RobertsonRobertson
    edited June 2017 Posts: 170
    @RichardTheBruce Your oft-stated idea to once again adapt the Fleming novels for the 21st century is one of the worst I've heard.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Because Casino Royale was such a critical and commercial failure
  • RobertsonRobertson
    Posts: 170
    @w2bond Because Moonraker hasn't been adapted enough times.
  • MilovyMilovy
    edited June 2017 Posts: 676
    Maybe a controversial opinion: CR didn't need a follow-up. There were no loose ends that needed resolving. It wasn't a cliffhanger, but rather an open ending. Bond catches the guy responsible for Vesper's betrayal and recovers the money. Roll credits. Next story, please.

    I know some people thought it was a good idea for EON to attempt what they failed at with OHMSS/DAF - that is, let Bond get his revenge. Well, he effectively gets his revenge before CR even ends. QoS is just a superfluous elaboration on that and raises more questions than it answers.

    I simply don't think direct sequels hold any appeal in the world of Bond. Craig's films can be clearly divided into the ones that were hits (CR and SF) and the ones that were received more lukewarmly (QoS and SP). It's not a coincidence that Craig's best films stand alone, while QoS and SP - basically multi-million dollar postscripts to CR and SF - are largely forgotten.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Milovy wrote: »
    Maybe a controversial opinion: CR didn't need a follow-up. There were no loose ends that needed resolving. It wasn't a cliffhanger, but rather an open ending. Bond catches the guy responsible for Vesper's betrayal and recovers the money. Roll credits. Next story, please.

    I know some people thought it was a good idea for EON to attempt what they failed at with OHMSS/DAF - that is, let Bond get his revenge. Well, he effectively gets his revenge before CR even ends. QoS is just a superfluous elaboration on that and raises more questions than it answers.

    I simply don't think direct sequels hold any appeal in the world of Bond. Craig's films can be clearly divided into the ones that were hits (CR and SF) and the ones that were received more lukewarmly (QoS and SP). It's not a coincidence that Craig's best films stand alone, while QoS and SP - basically multi-million dollar postscripts to CR and SF - are largely forgotten.

    Completely agree, @Milovy, and if it was another Bond in the suit people wouldn't defend it so much. They could end up doing the same thing again with SPECRET part 2, or Skyfall part 3 as it's also known.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    I like QOS a lot but kind of agree with @Milovy. It did not need to be such a sequel. That said I am a big advocate of recurring adversaries and some continuity in Bond movies.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    it's not really a sequel, it's the afterbirth.
  • MilovyMilovy
    Posts: 676
    @Mendes4Lyfe Well, you may be right. I personally wouldn't have much time for QoS if it weren't for Craig in the role. He is the diamond in that movie's rough.

    I hope EON have learned by now that general audiences will only get so excited about direct sequels. The real success lies in stand alone stories.

    @Ludovico Recurring adversaries can be good, if done right (e.g. SPECTRE in DN/FRWL/TB/OHMSS). One recurring, planned element - like a big bad in the shadows - is fine. But stuff like how they used the bombed MI6 HQ in Spectre? Get outta here. EON shouldn't be trying to pass these films off as an intricate tapestry when really all they've got is a badly stitched dishcloth.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    About QOS:

    While I overall think the 24 films are alright the way they are, QOS is the one I would scrap if such a thing was possible.

    EON failed already in CR to a great extend with the re-boot nonsense.
    Craig was 38 and way too old to be a rookie 00. That's just for starters. And there is so much more really.

    But about QOS. It's like a TV episode has continued the story of a cinematic epic.
    Sure with a high budget and good production value but still.

    Craig is not Bond (hahaha) in QOS at all. Maybe in one or two scenes it feels like he is. (sorry couldn't resist :) )
    The rest is bloody stupid Die Hard vs Jason Bourne vs whatevercommonactionfilm

    Honestly if you change his name in the film nobody would even think of it as a Bond film.

    I enjoy the film nonetheless, it's highly entertaining and even if it's by far the greatest failure in the series (concerning making a proper Bond film) it still is watchable BECAUSE it is the "afterbirth" from Casino Royale and is therefore connected to it, that helps, that saves QOS. Otherwise I may not even watch it ever again.
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