Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • Posts: 1,162
    jake24 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I agree, but then Craig can't do cheesy, he can't do much of anything really except run, sweat, hand-fight, and have about the same facial expression in every other scene.

    He's the best actor to play the role.

    If range is what makes a great actor he is clearly not.

    He's superb. Always makes me laugh when I see people trying to take him down.

    Interestingly (and perhaps tellingly) you ignore the range part.

    See - Logan Lucky.

    Have you seen it?

    The trailer is proof enough that Craig has undebiable range.

    All right, that guy has done a dozen movies and all you've got to prove his range are a few seconds out of the trailer of a yet unreleased movie? Hmmm ...
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    jake24 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I agree, but then Craig can't do cheesy, he can't do much of anything really except run, sweat, hand-fight, and have about the same facial expression in every other scene.

    He's the best actor to play the role.

    If range is what makes a great actor he is clearly not.

    He's superb. Always makes me laugh when I see people trying to take him down.

    Interestingly (and perhaps tellingly) you ignore the range part.

    See - Logan Lucky.

    Have you seen it?

    The trailer is proof enough that Craig has undebiable range.

    All right, that guy has done a dozen movies and all you've got to prove his range are a few seconds out of the trailer of a yet unreleased movie? Hmmm ...

    No less to cite a trailer specifically, as if it's some kind of ace in the hole. 45 seconds of chopped together clips. Beat that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    well @BondJasonBond006 , I can only reply as a lifelong Bond fan (I'm 43, not a newbie at this fandom; started when I was four (watching Thunderball on TV with my Dad):

    When I saw DC in CR I was so overwhelmed I had tears in my eyes and butterflies in my gut. When I walked out of my first showing I thought :This could be the offspring of Fleming, Fiona and Connery (in a wild threesome!).

    But that's not to take away from the other actors. They've all been great, one way or the other, and some people, like me, may be drawn to the more rugged and physical (as well as sexy and charming) in the SC and DC mold; I can appreciate Moore (very much) and Brosnan (seeing glaring weaknesses in him as a physical and emotional actor); I love Laz, and my least favorite is the dour (but sometimes exceptional!) Dalton.

    In the end, one's taste in one's preferred Bond, shouldn't negate what the others brought to the role, nor the obvious talent that each one has, to varying degrees....

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    As Bond (which is what I'm really concerned about), Craig has been quite decent. The best since Moore. However, to me (so far) he appears to be the only actor (Laz doesn't count) who peaked out of the gate. I thought Brosnan was best in DAD (even though I much prefer GE as a film), but for me CR is easily Craig's best turn as Bond in the role.
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    Ludovico wrote: »
    @bondjames Because Bond girls need to have a special kind of beauty and, while they were not always the best actresses, they need to be very good at playing iconic characters, sometimes fairly complex ones. It's not enough to be eye candy. That's why Teri Hatcher was a poor Bond girl: badly written and a milf/girl next door look that was neither exotic nor mysterious.
    Ok, fair enough. I think Hatcher was just a case of terrible casting all round, but I agree that Bond girls tend to end up being iconic (even if for the wrong reasons) and therefore picking the right actress is quite important. Denise Richards is another one of the jokers (whoever thought she could be credible as a nuclear physicist should reconsider their casting career).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @BondJasonBond006 , I love Eva as well (and Giancarlo and Dench and Wright and Mikkelsen); and I really believe that great actors play with each other, not outshine their partners-- I find this to be the case every time I watch CR: there is no weak link. Just a bunch of great actors, performing off of each other....

    As for DC peaking in CR, @bondjames, I am of the mind that he just started with CR, continued expanding (and, indeed held-up) QoS, did a 1-80 on the tough exterior/armour Bond and stripped the character down to a broken and betrayed agent in SF--

    -- and not one of these performances was beneath the other... until...-

    -- SP (which I still found DC to be mesmerizing and charming, but, in a script that failed to emphasize his strengths...)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I can understand where you're coming from @peter, but from my perspective DC gave his most complete Bond portrayal in CR. There's been something missing in every performance since - something inaccessible and increasingly guarded. Perhaps that's what he wanted, in order to show a man getting more protective as he went along in his career and became more seasoned, in which case it's an excellent performance. I agree that he held up QoS, and in the earlier half in particular, he was quite excellent.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @BondJasonBond006, I'm glad that you will have at least this one experience to take from DC; to me, it was too simple, to easy for him to strut and smirk; I also felt the "yelling" in the plane and in Blofeld's lair was very, very, very anti-DC.

    However, I love the guy to death in the role and I can still find many, many scenes that I adore him in.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I have said in the past that I regard it as high as Connery in TB.
    A bit excessive in my view. Nobody comes close to Connery in TB imho. The man is a textbook definition of 'cool' in that film, except for the rack.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames, I love that DC's Bond was taken by Vesper-- hook and line... And there is something guarded in his followups, but--

    -- that experience can't help but reveal itself in the other films, notably in QoS (scenes with Camille in the caves and at the end where they share a kiss), and in SF with (and especially) with Severine, when he notes that he's aware of when a woman is scared, but pretending not to be (he learned from his experience with Vesper).

    There are traces of this greatness, in both character and actor in SP as well (L'American scenes, and; what they then tried to do on the train (cringe-worthy to me)).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @peter, I agree. The writing has been decent that way in peeling back and connecting the Craig era. I have noticed that. The linkages are there in his personal encounters with the opposite sex and it's reasonably subtle.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @BondJasonBond006 , I wish I could say something more than, you're right, the train sequence in SP was well edited (and I did enjoy the fight with Hinx), but Madeline and DCBond's pre-cocktail banter was cringey (right down to her saying something about a drink making her do crazy things); I found DC very good in these scenes, but found Swann to be very sub-par as a character and the actress playing her, unfortunately.
  • Not sure if there's a point to listing a highlight of any Bond actor's tenure and then claiming that the other actors wouldn't be able to replicate it. They all had different strengths, and they all had high points that were unique to them and thus could not be replicated by any of the other actors.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Personally I find Craig to be a damn good Bond,with hopefully one big,brash,TSWLM-type film left in his tank before he goes.
  • Posts: 15,117
    The third Dalton movie that never was should have been between TLD and LTK. The shift in tone was too big.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    The third Dalton movie that never was should have been between TLD and LTK. The shift in tone was too big.

    Hmm, that's a very fair point.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    To be quite honest I think Craig is my least favourite Bond, though I do still enjoy his performances for most of the time. CR and SP were his finest hours for me.

    But the others just say more "James Bond" to me. Sean, George, Rog, Tim and Pierce are more classy, just look how they walk or move. It's another class for me.

    While I enjoy some of the recent Bonds, I'll take the original timeline over it any day.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    To be quite honest I think Craig is my least favourite Bond, though I do still enjoy his performances for most of the time. CR and SP were his finest hours for me.

    But the others just say more "James Bond" to me. Sean, George, Rog, Tim and Pierce are more classy, just look how they walk or move. It's another class for me.

    While I enjoy some of the recent Bonds, I'll take the original timeline over it any day.

    Yeah, more people are beginning to come forth with this opinion lately.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 337
    Craig's walk is pretty good, I'll say. But my opinion of him has been declining ever since Casino Royale, and he's at most #4 for me. Moore, Connery and Brosnan all sell the class far better, arguably even Dalton. Lazenby's inexperience in acting likely keeps him at the bottom, though he did manage a few classy poses in OHMSS promotional material. Dalton is definitely classy but spent too much time trying brooding as Bond. That might cost him fourth place in my mind.

    But generally speaking, I can find something to enjoy about each of them, even if I disagree with their take on Bond in general.

    However, as just an actor, I'd wager Craig is at or at least near the top. So is Dalton.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Casino Royale starts to age, and not to its advantage. It has slipped in my ranking to No 12.
    The whole Venice sequence is a mess and confusing.
    The jump and run sequence after the PTS is exciting and well directed but it's not Bond.
    The train to Montenegro and the whole Casino sequences are what make CR a classic.
    Plus the fantastic ensemble cast that even manages to elevate Craig.

    Completely agree, you've nailed it. Ironically the marketing gimmicks and padding of the first and third act are what people remember the least about this film. If they hadn't held back with the rest of the film, and not bottled it at the end by throwing in another action sequence where it wasn't needed, then Casino would really be the masterpiece we're supposed to believe it to be.

    Say what you want about the start, but I definitely disagree about the ending. From the moment Bond realizes Vesper betrayed him, to the moment Mr. White walks off with the money, is excellent. We don't see Bond sneak around in the shadows much these days, but when he's stalking Vesper it reminds me of Bond's good 'ol days hiding in the shadows instead of leaping into the action right away. Who doesn't love the part when she turns around and Bond is removing the safety/ cocking his gun? That shot is better framed than the entirety of QoS :)

    Carrying on, the sinking house is a unique action set-piece and nicely gives Vesper a suicide like in the book. Of course in the film it's more dramatic, but more importantly, more cinematic. The acting from Craig beside the lift/elevator (and Green's "I'm sorry, James") is some of the best in the franchise. That's not hyperbole talking.

    After she drowns, Craig's suppressed rage and sorrow is my favourite acting from him in the films and we all have to thank the finale for giving us the chance to see that happen. Thus, for my taste, the ending is entirely solid.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Personally I find Craig to be a damn good Bond,with hopefully one big,brash,TSWLM-type film left in his tank before he goes.
    Yes please!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Personally I find Craig to be a damn good Bond,with hopefully one big,brash,TSWLM-type film left in his tank before he goes.
    Yes please!
    I think we got as close to that with the last one as we're going to get. If anything, given budgetary pressures and the reported one film distribution deal, the next one will be a far more scaled back and intimate affair imho.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 2017 Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Personally I find Craig to be a damn good Bond,with hopefully one big,brash,TSWLM-type film left in his tank before he goes.
    Yes please!
    I think we got as close to that with the last one as we're going to get. If anything, given budgetary pressures and the reported one film distribution deal, the next one will be a far more scaled back and intimate affair imho.

    Great! I agree, SPECTRE was the height of bloated Bond for this generation. They can only scale things back from here. It's why I think now is a natural juncture to go back to the drawing board with a new Bond.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Incredibly really that Spectre managed to be both bloated and somewhat low key at the same time. I think Daniel Craig had one show stopper with Casino Royale and the rest have just been...well meh.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    SP went off the rails, after three very good/great chapters in the life of Bond, because there was a release date, it was set in stone, and they truly mucked up development.

    By the time they realized their cock-up, it was like a collective shrug back to the retired (fired) writers, P&W to just write something passable they can film, film fast, edit and get out on the allotted dated.

    As I have said time and again, SP was a beautiful mess (looked beautiful, great costumes, sets, lights, actors (minus Waltz, Seydoux, and, sadly Fiennes))...
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    About QOS:

    While I overall think the 24 films are alright the way they are, QOS is the one I would scrap if such a thing was possible.

    EON failed already in CR to a great extend with the re-boot nonsense.
    Craig was 38 and way too old to be a rookie 00. That's just for starters. And there is so much more really.

    But about QOS. It's like a TV episode has continued the story of a cinematic epic.
    Sure with a high budget and good production value but still.

    Craig is not Bond (hahaha) in QOS at all. Maybe in one or two scenes it feels like he is. (sorry couldn't resist :) )
    The rest is bloody stupid Die Hard vs Jason Bourne vs whatevercommonactionfilm

    Honestly if you change his name in the film nobody would even think of it as a Bond film.

    I enjoy the film nonetheless, it's highly entertaining and even if it's by far the greatest failure in the series (concerning making a proper Bond film) it still is watchable BECAUSE it is the "afterbirth" from Casino Royale and is therefore connected to it, that helps, that saves QOS. Otherwise I may not even watch it ever again.

    423.gif
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