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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I want some more Craig films with a return to the tone of CR.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally really disliked Kamen's score in the past too. These days, like with the film, I've grown to love it. Lethal Weapon/Die Hard meets James Bond.

    Unfortunately the more I see LTK the less and less I think of it. I seriously think it could end up being my least favourite Bond film eventually.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally really disliked Kamen's score in the past too. These days, like with the film, I've grown to love it. Lethal Weapon/Die Hard meets James Bond.

    Unfortunately the more I see LTK the less and less I think of it. I seriously think it could end up being my least favourite Bond film eventually.
    I can appreciate that. It's not for everyone. Honestly, it's the way Bond gets under Sanchez's skin and the intensity of Dalton and Davi's respective performances which help it to just crack my top 10. Apart from that it's quite lacking in the traditional Bond film glamour, style, class or trimmings. Lowell and Soto (both lousy) don't help matters either, nor do the cheesy American tv actors in Florida. The action sequences are quite spectacular though (especially the Wavekrest break-in and escape, and the tanker finale).
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The only music I can't stand in either film is the disco track during the Citroen chase, which reappears during the ski sequence (Drive in the Country, I think it's called). It sounds to me like Conti trying to one up Hamlisch's Bond 77 but without the class. That and Sheena's wailing on the title track (recently surpassed only by Smith).

    I quite enjoy the rest of both soundtracks.

    That's my favourite one :D I always like to dance along to it when I watch the film.




    I love that track to be honest. ;)
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Kamens is just as bad as Contis
  • CrzChris4CrzChris4
    Posts: 463
    I think Kamen's work is the best one off soundtrack in the series. LTK and LALD are easily the two best.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Kamen's score is great. His use of the Bond theme is admirable.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    I think Kamen's work is the best one off soundtrack in the series. LTK and LALD are easily the two best.

    I agree.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    I like Kamen's score, the album really doesn't do it justice though.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    You can find a lot of unreleased Licence to Kill music here.
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/6730/lost-but-now-found-the-unreleased-bond-music-thread/p5
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Thanks @Murdock, I have visited that thread before and I think it's a great contribution for us (Bond) music fans.

    Now that we're on it, I think the best one-off scores were LTK and GE. Together with Arnold's TND they are my favourite non-Barry scores.

    Three in a row now that I think about it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    My pleasure @GoldenGun. :)
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Now that we're on it, I think the best one-off scores were LTK and GE.

    1. LTK
    2. LALD
    3. GE

    For me.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    True, LALD is a good one as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    1. LALD
    2. TSWLM
    3. GE
    4. FYEO
    5. LTK

    -I'd take all 5 over Arnold's first three and SP
    -SF would be just behind GE
    -QoS & CR would be just behind TSWLM
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    None Arnold/ Barry/ Newman Scores:

    1. LALD
    2. LTK
    3. FYEO
    4. TSWLM
    5. NSNA
    6. GE

  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,419
    LTK is a top ten Bond for me always, but Kamens score is its weakest element. The truck climax is superb but it needed some music behind it.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    I just always picture the music when Felix and the DEA agents are slow mo running.

    Bleggggh
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    1. LALD
    2. LTK
    3. FYEO
    4. GE
    5. DN
    6. TSWLM
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    I do like Kamen's gunbarrel music. Different, for a change.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    That's the only part of his score that I enjoy.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    That's the only part of his score that I enjoy.

    Me too...
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I've finally come up with a metaphor for something that I've felt about Bond for a while;

    Bond is classic fin-tailed car:
    4d306feb633951ceea7a5b7291f192ec.jpg

    Something that was beautiful in its time, was considered obnoxious and cliched for a period, and is now cool again because of its unique style, old-fashioned class, and over-the-top character. It should be proud of what it is, and never try to be anything else. When it tries something different, when it attempts to do what it ought not, it ends up looking like this;
    y34m9ghw4fokswgsvgxi.jpg

    EON needs to unashamedly have Bond be Bond. They need to be bold and proud about it. Bond is not Bourne. Bond is not The Dark Knight. Bond does not need to be anything like them. Bond does not need half-baked attempts at a gritty, emotional, character arch. Bond does not need soap-opera style plot twists with connections to people in his past (I'm looking at you, Bloberhauser). Bond does not need a sappy, poorly executed love story. Bond needs that chest-pounding, full-throated, suaveness exuding, bad-ass style that defined coolness and masculinity for generations. Bond needs to be Bond.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    Amen. So be it!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    BMW_with_missiles wrote: »
    I've finally come up with a metaphor for something that I've felt about Bond for a while;

    Bond is classic fin-tailed car:
    4d306feb633951ceea7a5b7291f192ec.jpg

    Something that was beautiful in its time, was considered obnoxious and cliched for a period, and is now cool again because of its unique style, old-fashioned class, and over-the-top character. It should be proud of what it is, and never try to be anything else. When it tries something different, when it attempts to do what it ought not, it ends up looking like this;
    y34m9ghw4fokswgsvgxi.jpg

    EON needs to unashamedly have Bond be Bond. They need to be bold and proud about it. Bond is not Bourne. Bond is not The Dark Knight. Bond does not need to be anything like them. Bond does not need half-baked attempts at a gritty, emotional, character arch. Bond does not need soap-opera style plot twists with connections to people in his past (I'm looking at you, Bloberhauser). Bond does not need a sappy, poorly executed love story. Bond needs that chest-pounding, full-throated, suaveness exuding, bad-ass style that defined coolness and masculinity for generations. Bond needs to be Bond.

    They did this in CR. They even figured out how to have a downer ending and a crowd-pleasing final scene. Follow the CR template and all will be well.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited June 2017 Posts: 3,000
    echo wrote: »
    BMW_with_missiles wrote: »
    I've finally come up with a metaphor for something that I've felt about Bond for a while;

    Bond is classic fin-tailed car:
    4d306feb633951ceea7a5b7291f192ec.jpg

    Something that was beautiful in its time, was considered obnoxious and cliched for a period, and is now cool again because of its unique style, old-fashioned class, and over-the-top character. It should be proud of what it is, and never try to be anything else. When it tries something different, when it attempts to do what it ought not, it ends up looking like this;
    y34m9ghw4fokswgsvgxi.jpg

    EON needs to unashamedly have Bond be Bond. They need to be bold and proud about it. Bond is not Bourne. Bond is not The Dark Knight. Bond does not need to be anything like them. Bond does not need half-baked attempts at a gritty, emotional, character arch. Bond does not need soap-opera style plot twists with connections to people in his past (I'm looking at you, Bloberhauser). Bond does not need a sappy, poorly executed love story. Bond needs that chest-pounding, full-throated, suaveness exuding, bad-ass style that defined coolness and masculinity for generations. Bond needs to be Bond.

    They did this in CR. They even figured out how to have a downer ending and a crowd-pleasing final scene. Follow the CR template and all will be well.

    I see your point, and I'm partially inclined to agree, but the issue is that CR was when EON began to make Bond like the rest of modern action. The changes made in CR were bold for the Bond series, being so different to the formula, but they fit right in with the times of modern cinema. It was playing it safe by that metric. This was when the Bond franchise began to blend in with Bourne and the rest, rather than standing out as its own thing. This issue worsened in QOS. Don't get me wrong, CR is a fantastic film, and would have been much better as a one-off. But it became an era, and a poorly executed one at that. Bond is a classic character; that's something you don't screw with too much. As much appreciation as I have for CR, SF, and SP, there's been a lot of screwing around in this era.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    I wouldn't follow the CR template too much.

    CR, like OHMSS and LTK before it, felt fresh because it was different and because it took us by surprise.

    If you keep following the same path, the freshness starts to wear off.

    Ideally we get two or three "classic" Bonds and then something different and more daring. That would be a good cycle in my opinion.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I wouldn't follow the CR template too much.

    CR, like OHMSS and LTK before it, felt fresh because it was different and because it took us by surprise.

    If you keep following the same path, the freshness starts to wear off.

    Ideally we get two or three "classic" Bonds and then something different and more daring. That would be a good cycle in my opinion.

    I agree completely.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Just follow the CR template up to the end of the casino sequence.

    The film was very well written up to that point, well paced, suspenseful, with great action and a Bond full of mojo. It was also a bit unpredictable because it didn't follow the traditional framing template (M's briefing of Bond occurs some time into the film).

    For me the coolest Bond performances full of verve and spirit have been in GE & the earlier half of CR. That's what I want to see again.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    As Craig seems to be the target of the month, and as it's been claimed he's the least Flemingesque of the Bonds, my controversial opinion:

    Quantum of Solace is the most Flemingesque James Bond film bar for the close adaptations TB,OHMSS, FRWL and DN.

    Fleming, in his writing, takes great efford to transfer Bond's state of mind to the reader. QoS does so by making things that are chaotic for Bond chaotic for the viewer. It's a take on the films we haven't had before, so it was confusing, but it's very much in the line of Fleming's writing. Fleming also was very descriptive of the surroundings. QoS is the same. We have panning shots of the desolate desert, we see civillians craving for water. We see a stunning, very visual opera scene. Never before did we see so much atmosphere in a villain's meeting. Above all Bond stays loyal to his country and the job at hand. He doubts (end of the CR book, QoS bar scene with Felix) in a cynical way the job at some points, but he gets his act together quick enough. QoS goes by, just as a Fleming novel, in a blink of an eye, leaving you with a gripping adventure that sometimes is hard to follow, full of excitement, adrenaline, but also human limits and doubt. Forster should be hailed as one of the greatest modern directors of Bond!
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