Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    My favourite Brosnan Bond is Tomorrow Never Dies - I know a lot of people have a downer on this one but I like it. I think Brosnan looks less like a playboy in it, there is a great Bond girl in Wai Lin, who is more than capable of handling herself, good PTS that actually links to the main story and some great stunts, action and locations. And I love the 'they'll print anything these days' quip!
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    My favourite Brosnan Bond is Tomorrow Never Dies - I know a lot of people have a downer on this one but I like it. I think Brosnan looks less like a playboy in it, there is a great Bond girl in Wai Lin, who is more than capable of handling herself, good PTS that actually links to the main story and some great stunts, action and locations. And I love the 'they'll print anything these days' quip!

    I really like the "HALO jump" in TND but, as I've said before, I just feel the film relies far too heavily on action.

    Look at the facts regarding big action set pieces:

    GE

    -PTS
    -Serveneya destruction
    -archive shootout/tank chase
    -Showdown between Bond and Alec

    TND

    -PTS
    -Stealth boat attack
    -Warehouse chase
    -Car park chase
    -Escape from Carver's building in Saigon
    -Motorbike chase
    -Wai Lin's fight with goons
    -Shootout on stealth ship

    In fairness some of the action is pretty good but still...there's too much.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The John Frankenheimer movie "Ronin" could with a little twitching have become one of the greatest 007 movies ever. James Bond being of course the Robert de Niro role.

  • Tiffany Case is a very underrated Bond girl in a very underrated film.

    Roger Moore has the most amount of tense, dramatic and emotional scenes compared to any other Bond actor

    The Lotus is better than the DB5 (Bring back the Lotus in Bond 24?)

    Moneypenny/Bond was at there most flirtatious in the Brosnan era

    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,425
    My favourite Brosnan Bond is Tomorrow Never Dies - I know a lot of people have a downer on this one but I like it. I think Brosnan looks less like a playboy in it, there is a great Bond girl in Wai Lin, who is more than capable of handling herself, good PTS that actually links to the main story and some great stunts, action and locations. And I love the 'they'll print anything these days' quip!

    I'll second this. As time goes by TND is the only Brosnan film with any redeeming features. With a decent actor in the lead role it could have been a solid entry to the series. The PTS is not bad at all.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Tiffany Case is a very underrated Bond girl in a very underrated film.

    Roger Moore has the most amount of tense, dramatic and emotional scenes compared to any other Bond actor

    The Lotus is better than the DB5 (Bring back the Lotus in Bond 24?)

    Moneypenny/Bond was at there most flirtatious in the Brosnan era

    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL

    Tiffany: Good looking, crap acting. She's not underrated, she's underdone. DAF, also not underrated, just bad.

    Moore: I guess you could say that, since he's in more movies, but Connery, Brosnan and Craig each have more tense, dramatic and emotional moments in one film apiece than Moore had during his entire run.

    Lotus: I liked the Lotus in TSWLM only. It was wasted in FYEO. It should not have been in FYEO.

    Moneypenny/Bond: Yeah.

    Elevator: There was an elevator scene in FRWL? I simply do not remember it.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Tiffany Case is a very underrated Bond girl in a very underrated film.

    Roger Moore has the most amount of tense, dramatic and emotional scenes compared to any other Bond actor

    The Lotus is better than the DB5 (Bring back the Lotus in Bond 24?)

    Moneypenny/Bond was at there most flirtatious in the Brosnan era

    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL

    1- I don't like DAF or Case so I'll disagree with you on that one.

    2- He had tense, dramatic, emotional moments and was a great Bond, but more than any other actor? I don't think he did. I think maybe Brosnan or Dalton had most of those so far, probably will be Craig after SF by the looks of things.

    3- Yes. I don't really think they should bring back old cars at all but I prefer the Lotus to the DB5 and I'd much rather have that back. But I would prefer them using a new Lotus.

    4- Yeah they probably were. Honestly I think Brosnan had the best moneypenny relationship.

    5- FRWL had an elevator fight? Sorry, it's been a while since I've seen the film. But I do like the DAF elevator fight, one of the few good parts of the film imo.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Tiffany Case is a very underrated Bond girl in a very underrated film.

    Roger Moore has the most amount of tense, dramatic and emotional scenes compared to any other Bond actor

    The Lotus is better than the DB5 (Bring back the Lotus in Bond 24?)

    Moneypenny/Bond was at there most flirtatious in the Brosnan era

    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL

    1- I don't like DAF or Case so I'll disagree with you on that one.

    2- He had tense, dramatic, emotional moments and was a great Bond, but more than any other actor? I don't think he did. I think maybe Brosnan or Dalton had most of those so far, probably will be Craig after SF by the looks of things.

    3- Yes. I don't really think they should bring back old cars at all but I prefer the Lotus to the DB5 and I'd much rather have that back. But I would prefer them using a new Lotus.

    4- Yeah they probably were. Honestly I think Brosnan had the best moneypenny relationship.

    5- FRWL had an elevator fight? Sorry, it's been a while since I've seen the film. But I do like the DAF elevator fight, one of the few good parts of the film imo.

    The elevator fight in DAF is a sublime moment in an otherwise shoddy movie.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 1,497
    Tiffany Case is a very underrated Bond girl in a very underrated film.

    Roger Moore has the most amount of tense, dramatic and emotional scenes compared to any other Bond actor

    The Lotus is better than the DB5 (Bring back the Lotus in Bond 24?)

    Moneypenny/Bond was at there most flirtatious in the Brosnan era

    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL

    1. Yes! Tiffany Case had the most convincing chemistry with Sean Connery. She was an older, more mature Bond lady, which seemed better suited to Connery's Bond. She's was the most cosmopolitan of Bond girls for the time. DAF is certainly underappreciated. I get tired of trying to show the light. Ah well, there's hope for them someday...

    2. I don't know about this. Maybe, I've never kept track. Definitely more than Connery...the others though? Lazenby only had one film to show his emotional side, but I think he displayed more of it in one film than Rog did in all his films combined.

    3. "Better"...in what regard? Aesthetics or it's functionality? I always favored the DBS 1969 for it's muscle and looks.

    4. I think they went too far with the flirtatious relationship in the Brosnan era...just tacky. Made a mockery of the relationship.

    5. I don't know if I would say the DAF elevator fight is more intense than the Red Grant fight...but I think it's certainly overshadowed by it. The DAF elevator fight is a great scene all around, with the tension especially heightened by the close quarters. Connery looks like he's having the time of his life in that scene.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Can anybody please tell me where the elevator fight in FRWL is?
  • Can anybody please tell me where the elevator fight in FRWL is?

    I meant fight scenes (highlighting specifically the one in DAF that took place in an elevator)
  • Posts: 1,497
    Can anybody please tell me where the elevator fight in FRWL is?

    I meant fight scenes (highlighting specifically the one in DAF that took place in an elevator)

    Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious too.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Can anybody please tell me where the elevator fight in FRWL is?

    I meant fight scenes (highlighting specifically the one in DAF that took place in an elevator)

    Thank you for making that clear, because this
    I find the fight in the elevator in DAF more entertaining and tense than the one in FRWL

    makes it sound like you mean an elevator fight in FRWL.
    Elevator: There was an elevator scene in FRWL? I simply do not remember it.
    5- FRWL had an elevator fight? Sorry, it's been a while since I've seen the film. But I do like the DAF elevator fight, one of the few good parts of the film imo.
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious too.

    Clearly not as obvious as you thought it was.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Bumping this thread up with:

    As good as Connery was in FRWL, Dalton or Craig would have given us a better, more complex take on the romance with Tania.
  • Posts: 7,653
    echo wrote:
    Bumping this thread up with:

    As good as Connery was in FRWL, Dalton or Craig would have given us a better, more complex take on the romance with Tania.

    NO that is just silly talk of somebody who does not like James Bond but is clearly a Dalton/Craig fanboy.

    They could not even match the intensity of the "romance" between Vesper & Bond in CR, they messed it up with a sinking house. And Daltons lady leads were poor too be kind.

    With FRWL Sean Connery was James Bond and that movie is imho one of the best films of the whole series it is better than what Craig or Dalton have done so far. But then again they got the job due to the greatness of Connery & Moore.

  • Posts: 5,745
    SaintMark wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Bumping this thread up with:

    As good as Connery was in FRWL, Dalton or Craig would have given us a better, more complex take on the romance with Tania.

    NO that is just silly talk of somebody who does not like James Bond but is clearly a Dalton/Craig fanboy.

    They could not even match the intensity of the "romance" between Vesper & Bond in CR, they messed it up with a sinking house. And Daltons lady leads were poor too be kind.

    With FRWL Sean Connery was James Bond and that movie is imho one of the best films of the whole series it is better than what Craig or Dalton have done so far. But then again they got the job due to the greatness of Connery & Moore.

    Sounds like your in auto-defense mode if I'm honest. You didn't even hit on the relationship portrayed in FRWL.

    I never thought there was supposed to be a complex romance between the characters. To Bond she was the job. That's how it's portrayed, so that's how I read it. It shouldn't have been any other way.
  • Posts: 7,653
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Bumping this thread up with:

    As good as Connery was in FRWL, Dalton or Craig would have given us a better, more complex take on the romance with Tania.

    NO that is just silly talk of somebody who does not like James Bond but is clearly a Dalton/Craig fanboy.

    They could not even match the intensity of the "romance" between Vesper & Bond in CR, they messed it up with a sinking house. And Daltons lady leads were poor too be kind.

    With FRWL Sean Connery was James Bond and that movie is imho one of the best films of the whole series it is better than what Craig or Dalton have done so far. But then again they got the job due to the greatness of Connery & Moore.

    Sounds like your in auto-defense mode if I'm honest. You didn't even hit on the relationship portrayed in FRWL.

    I never thought there was supposed to be a complex romance between the characters. To Bond she was the job. That's how it's portrayed, so that's how I read it. It shouldn't have been any other way.

    You are right of course, the relationship between Bond and Tania was as Fleming had written: She was the job.

    In my defense the Craig/Dalton fanboys seem to forget that there was sheer quality before and they always annoy me. Just like those calls for a true Moonraker, which makes a great novel but a poor movie imho.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    I like Connery as much as Craig and Dalton but I think Connery has his limitations as an actor.
  • edited June 2012 Posts: 7,653
    echo wrote:
    I like Connery as much as Craig and Dalton but I think Connery has his limitations as an actor.

    True but he had far better stories and scripts to work with.

    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    SaintMark wrote:
    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.

    Nowt wrong with that. I'd refer to Gene Hackman (an actor the same age range as Connery) as an actor rather than a star, and his acting/career blows Connery out of the water. Hell, Hackman in Welcome To Mooseport is still superior to Connery. I've said it before and I still think Connery is an exceedingly limited actor who has managed to make a career out of his time on Bond, and in spite of his limitations.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote:
    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.

    Nowt wrong with that. I'd refer to Gene Hackman (an actor the same age range as Connery) as an actor rather than a star, and his acting/career blows Connery out of the water. Hell, Hackman in Welcome To Mooseport is still superior to Connery. I've said it before and I still think Connery is an exceedingly limited actor who has managed to make a career out of his time on Bond, and in spite of his limitations.

    I agree and has picked his parts very well, he could do whatever he wanted. That said while I love Gene Hackman I would sooner watch a movie with Connery.
    Connery's last movie the League of the extra-ordinary gentleman had extra class simply because of his being in it. (it is one of my guilty pleasures this movie)

    Connery has his limits but he played his strengths better than most actors.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    SaintMark wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.

    Nowt wrong with that. I'd refer to Gene Hackman (an actor the same age range as Connery) as an actor rather than a star, and his acting/career blows Connery out of the water. Hell, Hackman in Welcome To Mooseport is still superior to Connery. I've said it before and I still think Connery is an exceedingly limited actor who has managed to make a career out of his time on Bond, and in spite of his limitations.

    I agree and has picked his parts very well, he could do whatever he wanted. That said while I love Gene Hackman I would sooner watch a movie with Connery.
    Connery's last movie the League of the extra-ordinary gentleman had extra class simply because of his being in it. (it is one of my guilty pleasures this movie)
    Connery has his limits but he played his strengths better than most actors.

    Yes, I rather like the film in spite of its flaws simply because of Connery; well, I like Peta in it, too. Connery is always watchable, which is what a star is, right? We are drawn to him, he has real presence.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    SaintMark wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.

    Nowt wrong with that. I'd refer to Gene Hackman (an actor the same age range as Connery) as an actor rather than a star, and his acting/career blows Connery out of the water. Hell, Hackman in Welcome To Mooseport is still superior to Connery. I've said it before and I still think Connery is an exceedingly limited actor who has managed to make a career out of his time on Bond, and in spite of his limitations.

    I agree and has picked his parts very well, he could do whatever he wanted. That said while I love Gene Hackman I would sooner watch a movie with Connery.
    Connery's last movie the League of the extra-ordinary gentleman had extra class simply because of his being in it. (it is one of my guilty pleasures this movie)

    Connery has his limits but he played his strengths better than most actors.

    Fair enough. I do like The Rock, for a guy of 60-something he was still quite agile. And The Offence was a brave move on his part. I've only seen that once, but I remember it being an awkward film to sit through.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    SaintMark wrote:
    And to be honest SC is a moviestar, TD & Craig are actors.

    Nowt wrong with that. I'd refer to Gene Hackman (an actor the same age range as Connery) as an actor rather than a star, and his acting/career blows Connery out of the water. Hell, Hackman in Welcome To Mooseport is still superior to Connery. I've said it before and I still think Connery is an exceedingly limited actor who has managed to make a career out of his time on Bond, and in spite of his limitations.

    I agree about Hackman, arguably the finest American movie actor of the last 50 years. Connery does have certain limitations yes, but he is a true movie star being both a charismatic presence and a fine (if not ultimately brilliant) screen actor. Bond gave him the breaks but he has given some terrific performances over the years.

    @SaintMark - I agree about Dalton, but Craig has already become a movie star whatever you think of him. I for one would rather watch him than most other film stars because he has the same big screen appeal that Connery had in his day. The fact he gets cast as lead in some pretty big films is testament to his current standing. He got his breaks because of Bond of course (as Connery, Moore and Brosnan did) but it's no different to how Harrison Ford's career took off as well as a number of others.
  • edited June 2012 Posts: 12,837
    SaintMark wrote:
    In my defense the Craig/Dalton fanboys seem to forget that there was sheer quality before and they always annoy me. Just like those calls for a true Moonraker, which makes a great novel but a poor movie imho.

    @SaintMark I'm a Dalton fanboy and I admit there was quality before (and after). I love most of Connery and Moore's films. OHMSS isn't bad either.
  • edited June 2012 Posts: 1,497
    SaintMark wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Bumping this thread up with:

    As good as Connery was in FRWL, Dalton or Craig would have given us a better, more complex take on the romance with Tania.

    NO that is just silly talk of somebody who does not like James Bond but is clearly a Dalton/Craig fanboy.

    They could not even match the intensity of the "romance" between Vesper & Bond in CR, they messed it up with a sinking house. And Daltons lady leads were poor too be kind.

    With FRWL Sean Connery was James Bond and that movie is imho one of the best films of the whole series it is better than what Craig or Dalton have done so far. But then again they got the job due to the greatness of Connery & Moore.

    Sounds like your in auto-defense mode if I'm honest. You didn't even hit on the relationship portrayed in FRWL.

    I never thought there was supposed to be a complex romance between the characters. To Bond she was the job. That's how it's portrayed, so that's how I read it. It shouldn't have been any other way.

    You are right of course, the relationship between Bond and Tania was as Fleming had written: She was the job.

    In my defense the Craig/Dalton fanboys seem to forget that there was sheer quality before and they always annoy me. Just like those calls for a true Moonraker, which makes a great novel but a poor movie imho.

    I'm NOT Craig/Dalton fanboy for sure. I prefer Connery, Moore and Lazenby over them. Connery is my favorite. But I think the whole fanboy remark is a cheap-shot; the pot calling the kettle black so to speak.

    I think @echo has an interesting point. The one thing that always bothered me about FRWL (a film that I love mind you), is the chemistry between Connery and Bianchi. In some scenes, they're great: the first in-bed encounter or Bond asking about the Lektor on the boat. In other's it seems akward: the train scenes in particular. Connery looks about 20 years her senior. Connery always looked about 10 years older than he actually he was, and in FRWL, he looks like he's picking up a local University girl, a bit creepy. His romance with Sylvia Trench in the beginning is way more appropriate.

    But I think it's deeper, as much as I love Connery, admittedly he does have limitations as an actor. I think Cary Grant would have pulled off this kind of old man/young girl romance a little more convincingly. That being said, I think Connery really owns and nails the parts he's in. But I think his range is limited, especially when it comes to more emotional scenes. He could not have pulled off OHMSS IMO. His accent also creeps up now and then throughout his tenure.

    Nonetheless, Connery is pure gold all around. But no one is without there flaws, so we should be careful not to hurl out hyperbole such "Craig fan-boys, etc."
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Well stated.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Sorry, echo, that was you who actually made that original point--fixed.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    I've often sensed that TLD was inspired by FRWL (both open with training exercises, both blonde Bond girls are pawns in a greater game, etc.), and that in some alternate universe, Dalton also could have given us a great FRWL.
  • edited June 2012 Posts: 147
    Interesting but a good point.
    Rate both these films very high on my list. FRWL - 1 and TLD - 4.
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