Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    I would have loved that TWINE's PTS actually finished where it was supposed to, Bond's escape from the Bankers office. I think the PTS as it stands is too long and it would have been nice to have the boat chase as the first action beat (as was intended) of the main film.
  • Posts: 266
    I would have loved that TWINE's PTS actually finished where it was supposed to, Bond's escape from the Bankers office. I think the PTS as it stands is too long and it would have been nice to have the boat chase as the first action beat (as was intended) of the main film.

    Me too, i would've preferd that.

    My controversial opinion is i prefer the films DN and GF to the novels.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,355
    I prefer the Goldfinger novel to the film as well. The only time I think a film is the better of the two actually.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I prefer the Goldfinger novel to the film as well. The only time I think a film is the better of the two actually.

    Part of me thinks that with FRWL. Don't get me wrong the novels great but the train sequence in the film plays out in a more believable way than it does in the book IMO.
  • Posts: 266
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I prefer the Goldfinger novel to the film as well. The only time I think a film is the better of the two actually.

    Part of me thinks that with FRWL. Don't get me wrong the novels great but the train sequence in the film plays out in a more believable way than it does in the book IMO.

    I get what you mean about the train sequence BAIN123, but i think the novel is better but i absolutely love the film too (my favourite film). I think all the novels are superior to the film adaptation apart from GF and DN.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 236
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  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TMWTGG is nowhere near as bad as many Bond fans make it out to be.
  • Posts: 5,634
    @HenryJonesVictor You're not supposed to use profanities on the MI6 pages

    @doubleoego Absolutely, Golden Gun is a very good movie, it has a lot of vital ingredients, and I can easily sit through from start to finish and rarely get bored, Moore does another fine job after Live and Let Die, Lulu, awesome music, Chris Lee, great villain, super locations, action, suspense, drama, what else could you ask for. I do feel it gets unfairly criticized

    Goodnight

    I-)
  • -The underwater fight scene in LTK is better than TB's.
    -TD in GE would have made the film so much better.
    - YOLT is better than TB.
    - Moneypenny should be in every Bond film.
    - If there was one film that could be done over again I would choose DAF and it would look nothing like it does now.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 643
    The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Maud Adams as Octopussy was one of the best Bond girls

    Roger Moore had some of the darkest moments in the franchise

    This isn't controversial (I hope) but Skyfall MUST be Purvis and Wade's last film...awful awful awful writers

    Craig needs to make an 'outlandish' Bond film such as GF, TB, TSWLM etc for his merits to be properly judged and to examine all aspects of the Bond character, not just those Craig wants to do

    After Skyfall, the series should return to the old format of Bond movies i.e. Pre credit teaser, song, flirt with money, briefing with M, gadget talk with Q, then the launch into the movie, maybe a meet up with Q if it calls for it. The Dench experiment has to end
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Well, it's more brutal than the ones in FRWL, but not CR. I also feel it's more memorable than those in FRWL, but not CR.
    Maud Adams as Octopussy was one of the best Bond girls

    I preferred Maud Adams in TMWTGG, and personally felt she was wasted in Octopussy.
    Roger Moore had some of the darkest moments in the franchise

    What is this, I don't even...
    This isn't controversial (I hope) but Skyfall MUST be Purvis and Wade's last film...awful awful awful writers

    A good amount of people feel this way, actually.
    Craig needs to make an 'outlandish' Bond film such as GF, TB, TSWLM etc for his merits to be properly judged and to examine all aspects of the Bond character, not just those Craig wants to do

    TB and TSWLM outlandish? Granted, TB had the transforming yacht and TSWLM had Jaws, but they were leaps and bounds more believable than GF. After watching him on Saturday Night Live, I now believe that Craig could pull one off, but I don't believe this helps "examine all aspects of the Bond character". Connery's Bond had a dry wit, as does Craig's.
    After Skyfall, the series should return to the old format of Bond movies i.e. Pre credit teaser, song, flirt with money, briefing with M, gadget talk with Q, then the launch into the movie, maybe a meet up with Q if it calls for it. The Dench experiment has to end

    Well, we're getting Q in Skyfall, so it's possible the "gadget talk with Q" will return, but honestly, other than that and the flirting with Moneypenny part, Craig's films do have a Pre-credit teaser, a song, a briefing with M (of sorts, it's almost like it follows a second teaser now, what with the Mollaka chase in CR and the Mitchell chase in QoS), and then the launch into the film. I do, however, want this to be Dench's last film as M, and for all we know, Dench's M will step down at the end of Skyfall, if the events of the film tie to her personally.
  • There was an elevator fight in From Russia With Love ?, that's news to me, and there was one in Casino Royale also?, I remember the QOS one after that though, where a shackled Bond guarded by four heavies, has a quite amazing escape in a matter of seconds, it was almost Houdini like..

    I don't really want Dench to go also, I think she's the best M since Bernard Lee, which really isn't saying much, but age is catching up with the actress and maybe it's for the best she steps down after this year, but that's not say I want her to go, but the time may be right now to call it a day on her Bond career
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    There was an elevator fight in From Russia With Love ?, that's news to me, and there was one in Casino Royale also?,

    I'm quite certain he just meant the elevator fight in DAF was better than any of the fights in those two films.
    I remember the QOS one after that though, where a shackled Bond guarded by four heavies, has a quite amazing escape in a matter of seconds, it was almost Houdini like..

    Thank you for reminding me about this. I'd honestly forgotten about it.
    I don't really want Dench to go also, I think she's the best M since Bernard Lee, which really isn't saying much, but age is catching up with the actress and maybe it's for the best she steps down after this year, but that's not say I want her to go, but the time may be right now to call it a day on her Bond career

    Well, yes, she is getting older (then again, I don't think the woman's aged that badly since GoldenEye, 17 years ago; I actually think she aged better than Brosnan did), but maybe it's more along the lines of we need to see a new M again. She's almost lasted as long as Bernard Lee and, although he left due to failing health and inevitable death, maybe there should be a cut-off limit for M actors/actresses.

    Though, I do think that M should always be older than Bond. Say they bring in another female M, who's closer in age to Bond, he'd probably be flirting with her.
  • The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Well, it's more brutal than the ones in FRWL, but not CR. I also feel it's more memorable than those in FRWL, but not CR.

    People say CR had the best fight scenes but I think that's unfair. CR had modern film making, they could make the fights seem more violent and brutal.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Well, it's more brutal than the ones in FRWL, but not CR. I also feel it's more memorable than those in FRWL, but not CR.

    People say CR had the best fight scenes but I think that's unfair. CR had modern film making, they could make the fights seem more violent and brutal.

    I agree. The train fight in FRWL is a masterclass of shooting and editing. It's utterly ferocious.
  • Posts: 1,817
    The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Well, it's more brutal than the ones in FRWL, but not CR. I also feel it's more memorable than those in FRWL, but not CR.

    People say CR had the best fight scenes but I think that's unfair. CR had modern film making, they could make the fights seem more violent and brutal.

    As are the fights in OHMSS, in particular Bond against that guy from Draco in Tracy's room.
  • Posts: 1,310
    The fight in the lift in Diamonds are Forever is more brutal and more memorable than the ones in FRWL/CR

    Well, it's more brutal than the ones in FRWL, but not CR. I also feel it's more memorable than those in FRWL, but not CR.

    People say CR had the best fight scenes but I think that's unfair. CR had modern film making, they could make the fights seem more violent and brutal.
    Absolutely true, but regardless, Casino Royale has some of the best fights in the franchise.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 612
    Diamonds Are Forever is the worst Bond film.

    Lazenby is the best fighter.

    Dr. No didn't know how to properly use the Bond theme (why is it playing when he's walking around his hotel?).

    I've never enjoyed a train fight sequence, except for maybe what we had in Octopussy.

    The only redeeming feature for AVTAK is the soundtrack.

    I like Judi Dench's M, a lot.

    QoS has two of the best scenes in the franchise - the opening car chase, and the opera-house shootout.

    I don't like that the Esprit was blown-up in FYEO. I would have been a lot better to watch than the 2CV.
  • Goldfinger is hugely over-rated. Yes, it has the villain, the car, the line, the girl and the PCS... but those elements only work in isolation. Taken together, the film just doesn't work. Bond is incompetent throughout most of the picture, getting both Masterson girls killed easily, and there is nothing to distinguish him from any non-Bond agent... it's a decent "film", but definitely not a decent "Bond film".

    Die Another Day is hugely under-rated. Half the plot comes from Moonraker, a top 3 book, the invisible car isn't nearly as stupid as it's made out to be and leads to a great chase, Brosnan is at his best in the role, and Toby Stephens is in it. It may have pushed "old Bond" as far as it could go but it never goes into the self-parody or sheer boredom found in earlier entries.
  • I don't mind the invisible car, I don't find it any more stupid than some other gadgets. My main problems with DAD are: the crappy diamond laser story being used again, Jinx's dialouge and the bad CGI towards the end.

    When you say half the plot comes from Moonraker, I don't think it does. They just took bits and pieces like the club name.
  • Would Moonraker have been considered better if the final climax was in the Amazon and not in space??
  • Would Moonraker have been considered better if the final climax was in the Amazon and not in space??

    I'd have liked it a bit more, but my main problem with it wasn't the space stuff, they were just cashing on in Star Wars like everyone was, it was of it's time.

    My problem with MR is: Jaws. Watching TSWLM when I was 5 or 6, I actually felt scared of Jaws. MR ruined that by turning him into a clown in love.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 121
    I like 'You Know My Name' and 'Another Way to Die'. I also quite liked the invisible car, especially the things around it: Bond meeting it, the spiked tyres.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Would Moonraker have been considered better if the final climax was in the Amazon and not in space??
    Moonraker would have been better if:

    - Jaws love interest was ELIMINATED
    - MR made out Jaws to be menacing, not a clown
    - The Magnificent Seven music was eliminated
    - The double taking pigeon was eliminated (actually, you can drop that whole scene of him driving around in the square)

    I actually think that the space scenes were well done. The special effects shots mostly look very good, and I actually think the film picks up just a little after all the embarrassing scenes in Rio.

    There is a lot to love in MR (primarily in the first half of the film), but once we get into that TERRIBLE cable car fight, the film mostly goes to hell.
  • Would Moonraker have been considered better if the final climax was in the Amazon and not in space??

    I'd have liked it a bit more, but my main problem with it wasn't the space stuff, they were just cashing on in Star Wars like everyone was, it was of it's time.

    My problem with MR is: Jaws. Watching TSWLM when I was 5 or 6, I actually felt scared of Jaws. MR ruined that by turning him into a clown in love.

    Yea I agree. I loved (feared) Jaws in TSWLM...but it was ruined by his appearance in MR. Did the producers always intend to have Jaws return, even if the next film was, as planned, For Your Eyes Only? Chan was a good henchman I thought...menacing
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 183
    You know my biggest secret *prepares for huge backlash*...

    I like Madonna's Die Another Day....








    No joke.


    It's not the best Bond theme, but try this experiment out that made me show appreciation for it.

    Step 1: Listen to this remix -
    Now when I say 'Listen' I don't mean skip through it and listen to bits, I mean put yourself through the entire song, on reasonably high volume level. No cheating can be allowed for the experiment to work.

    Step 2: Now if you've survived the first 6 minutes of this awful repetitive remix, you're doing well! But keep going!

    Step 3: Now at some point, the original DAD violin music kicks in and the repetitive beats stop for about 30 seconds - this is where your ears suddenly feel relieved to hear such a refreshing change in music. And it's simply the regular Die Another Day song!

    This is the method that made me like it so much! I feel now it's slightly ahead of its time too, because I bet you if Lady Gaga brought out this song on her next album, many will go...well, gaga!
  • Have new found appreciation of DAD theme recently...it's not as bad as I thought. Can't believe it was 10 years ago now :O

    With reflection on the themes, I genuinely believe if QOS's theme was entirely instrumental like OHMSS using the exact same music, it would be seen in the same light as the OHMSS theme
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    thamesider wrote:
    the invisible car isn't nearly as stupid as it's made out to be and leads to a great chase

    Y'know, it's funny: I hate the visual effect of the invisible car (the whole "panels" thing), but when The Avengers (Avengers Assemble in some places) did the exact same thing with the Helicarrier, I loved it. I don't get it at all. As far as the chase goes, if Zhao's car didn't have most of the exact same gadgets as Bond's car, I'd like it a lot more. The only thing Zhao's got going for his car is the minigun that pops out of the back.
  • 1. Die Another Day (the song) isn't that bad.
    2. Goldfinger is massively overrated.
    3. Thunderball is painful to sit through at points.
    4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Lazenby works better than it would have with Sean or Roger.
    5. M's relationship with Craig's Bond is interesting and enjoyable to watch.
    6. Quantum of Solace is one of the better Bond movies.
    7. For Your Eyes Only is largely underappreciated.
  • @TheLivingRoyale - I agree, elements were cherry-picked, but the main thrust of Moonraker the novel - that the villian takes on a new identity and becomes adored in his adopted country, only to use it as a ruse to further his plans - was directly transposed into DAD. But as you say, it's by no means a straight changeover with the disparate elements.

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