Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 11,189
    royale65 wrote: »
    Bond should've said "What a helpful chap" after the big goon generously laid down on the conveyor belt.

    Or "I never lay down on the job"
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I've never really enjoyed the TB fight. Just seemed like lots of crashing and banging to me. Realistic maybe but never found it very impressive, save for the kill with the fire poker at the end. That whole PTS is one of my least favourites. My favourite fights are

    Bond vs Grant. Nothing more to say really, it's just perfect.

    Bond vs Oddjob. I know this one gets a lot of crap but I really like it because it's so atmospheric. I still remember watching it as a kid and feeling terrified as you could hear Oddjob's footsteps getting closer and closer and watching it today takes me right back to that.

    The YOLT rooftop fight. The sweeping camera and Barry's score as Bond batters henchman after henchman. Great scene.

    The hotel fight in OHMSS. The editing/sped up camera in the beach fight puts me off but this one is brilliant. Lazenby owned the physical side of Bond.

    Bond vs Franks in the lift. One of the few bits of DAF that I really enjoy.

    Bond vs Gobinda on the train. Love Moore but his fight scenes weren't exactly his strong suit. I do really enjoy this one though, it feels really tense. That whole section of OP is so good.

    Green 4 vs Necros. Who'd have thought that the guy offering to give Bond a hand with his stuff at the door would turn out to be the most badass minor character in the history of the series?

    Bond vs Necros on the cargo net. Bit unfair because how impressive it is comes from the stunt rather than the fight but still, it's so good. Still remember my jaw dropping in the cinema when they first go flying out the back.

    Bond vs Trevelayn in GE. Campbell is a God when it comes to fight scenes. Still waiting for the Foreigner to get a UK release.

    Bond vs Renard in TWINE. Controversial pick but I actually really like it because of how exhausted and passionate it seems like both men are. I think the whole finale is great. Love the shots of Bond swimming alongside the sub, it really feels like he's going through the ringer and desperately giving it his all to save the day.

    Bond vs Fisher. Love how down and dirty it is. Perfect introduction to Craig Bond, all hail Campbell.

    Bond vs Obanno on the stairs. Did I mention that Campbell is brilliant?

    Bond vs Hinx. I'd been waiting for years for Craig to fight a proper Oddjob/Jaws type and this didn't disappoint. Mendes really seemed to kick it up a gear action wise with his second film and this is the best example imo. It's a bit derivative of the Grant/Tee Hee/Jaws fights sure but imo it betters them. Maybe my favourite fight of the series.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    I've never really enjoyed the TB fight. Just seemed like lots of crashing and banging to me. Realistic maybe but never found it very impressive, save for the kill with the fire poker at the end. That whole PTS is one of my least favourites.

    Yeah, as I said on the last page I have mixed thoughts on it as well. Lots of illogical moves, and Bond sliding the chair into Bouvard was laughable.

    But there was some real fierceness behind the sequence, and a couple of good moves (Bond pulling the curtains on the colonel, then decking him in the face, the fire poker kill, etc.) that I quite liked.
    The YOLT rooftop fight. The sweeping camera and Barry's score as Bond batters henchman after henchman. Great scene.

    I know you included the fight with Gobinda on the train and Necros on the plane, but similar to how I would class those scenes are being impressive mostly due to the stuntwork rather than the fight itself, I would say this scene in YOLT is more of an artistic sequence than a fight. You notice as the scene drags on that Bond's "hits" get further and further away from actually touching his enemies. Still, I love the camerawork and score.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    Shouldn t the AVTAK warehouse fight be on that list?

    The only list that should be on is 'Shittest fight ever committed to film'.

    EDIT: Never mind, I read that as the mansion fight. The warehouse fight is kind of amusing (because of how badly it's done; the second henchman practically looks like he's willingly getting on the conveyor) but definitely shit-tier in terms of the quality of the fighting.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • Posts: 11,189

    :))

    That is easily the worst fight in the series...and that's taking into account DAD.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yep, and that is saying something.
  • Posts: 11,189
    If the editing was half competent it might have been a semi-decent fight.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    If the editing was half competent it might have been a semi-decent fight.

    But then it wouldn t be funny.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    If the editing was half competent it might have been a semi-decent fight.

    But then it wouldn't be funny.

    True. It is a funny fight.

  • edited November 2017 Posts: 16,154
    BAIN123 wrote: »

    :))

    That is easily the worst fight in the series...and that's taking into account DAD.

    I think the first Roger fight (if you can call it that) in LALD where he disposes the two henchman in the alley is pretty weak and may compete for that title.

    Honestly, though, my least favorite fight in the series is Bond vs Gustav Graves in the plane. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the choreography, but the intercut editing with Jinx/Miranda, and the dialogue make me feel like it belongs in another franchise. I could see Bruce Willis or Mel Gibson in that scene more than Bond.
    That bothers me more than the editing or silliness in the Moore fights.

    As for the warehouse fight, that's one I dismiss. There's obviously that missing transition in the editing, and it's a brief sequence intended to be funny over thrilling. Might have actually been funnier had Tibbett and Bond knocked the two guards out with their first blow and them falling onto the conveyor belt.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I also found the rooftop fight in Spy unintentionally hilarious.
  • Posts: 7,507

    Is that the actual scene from the movie, or is this prank editing? I didn't recall it was this bad! :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Some editing that causes for unintentional comedy to me is that brisk shot of Bond laying out the guard on the boat in FYEO (the boat they first hop on when they arrive at Locque's warehouse compound). Bond just casually jogs up to him, throws a casual heavy punch, and runs away as the guard goes flying into the water.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jobo wrote: »

    Is that the actual scene from the movie, or is this prank editing? I didn't recall it was this bad! :))

    It s the actual scene, but the sound isn t synchronized.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Since it's a controversial opinions thread here's one: while it's messy and far too comedic I kinda like the hockey fight scene. I have no idea why. It starts dark and tense enough and maybe these masks are just spooky and sinister. And I know it's bad and makes little to no sense. But I kinda sort of like it.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 17,753
    Don't mind the hockey fight scene, either. If anything I feel indifferent to it (luckily), so it doesn't affect how i like FYEO.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    One of the scenes that I wish had stayed on the cutting room floor.

    Absolutely.

    Talking of crappy fights - during the raid on the Russian embassy in FRWL there's a moment where Bond knocks out a guard who is already on the floor with the a Larry Grayson-esque punch so feeble and limp wristed it wouldn't even knock over Raheem Sterling.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    One of the scenes that I wish had stayed on the cutting room floor.

    I'm just not keen on FYEO at all really apart from the odd scene. I think it's the most forgettable Bond film by some distance. Never really understood why it's seen as the big return to form after MR. I think OP is better in pretty much every way.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FYEO has some poorly conceived and directed scenes (such as the aforementioned hockey sequence) and I find the finale & villain quite dull, but I also think there's a lot to like (PTS, Citroen chase, ski sequences, keelhauling, mountain climb). It's also very atmospheric and looks great on blu ray. I'm not too keen on Sir Rog in it though (he seems a bit emasculated) but overall enjoy the film.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    FYEO has some poorly conceived and directed scenes (such as the aforementioned hockey sequence) and I find the finale & villain quite dull, but I also think there's a lot to like (PTS, Citroen chase, ski sequences, keelhauling, mountain climb). It's also very atmospheric and looks great on blu ray. I'm not too keen on Sir Rog in it though (he seems a bit emasculated) but overall enjoy the film.

    I do really like the mountain climbing bit and most of the scenes with the smugglers. And I agree it's one of his weaker performances. I don't know if it was Glen telling him to keep it more restrained or him not being keen on the script, but he just seems a bit awkward and uncomfortable a lot of the time imo. Doesn't matter though, he was back on top form with OP, and got a film that was worth his talents there too.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    FYEO has some poorly conceived and directed scenes (such as the aforementioned hockey sequence) and I find the finale & villain quite dull, but I also think there's a lot to like (PTS, Citroen chase, ski sequences, keelhauling, mountain climb). It's also very atmospheric and looks great on blu ray. I'm not too keen on Sir Rog in it though (he seems a bit emasculated) but overall enjoy the film.

    I do really like the mountain climbing bit and most of the scenes with the smugglers. And I agree it's one of his weaker performances. I don't know if it was Glen telling him to keep it more restrained or him not being keen on the script, but he just seems a bit awkward and uncomfortable a lot of the time imo. Doesn't matter though, he was back on top form with OP, and got a film that was worth his talents there too.
    I think it was the former, since I believe the film was originally conceived with a new actor in mind and they were deliberately trying to go for a tonal change compared to the OTT preceding films. Also, come to think of it, this was Rog's first go around with Glen in the chair, after having played Bond for 8 preceding years under Hamilton and Gilbert. So the director switch probably impacted his approach as well. You're right, he was definitely back to his normal self in OP.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I think it´s a top ten film also without those cuts, although they would have helped. I love the locations and the action, and it has one of the more interesting plots in the series. And for me it is Sir Rog´s best performance as Bond. I guess that qualifies as a controversial opinion.
  • For me the plot is one of the weakest aspects. I liked Melina's story and Bond's advice to her but I found it really difficult to get invested in the Lektor. I also think the villain is one of the worst because he's so forgettable. It doesn't help that they went for the twist aspect with it though. When Goldfinger strolls out larger than life to his fanfare, or when Atlantis rises out of the sea, or when Silva strolls down towards a captive Bond with the rat speech, you know who the bad guys are. In FYEO it's just a bit underwhelming. "Oh, that guy from earlier? He's the villain? Okay". Doesn't help that he gets basically nothing to do outside of the coral reef scene.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 7,507
    For me the plot is one of the weakest aspects. I liked Melina's story and Bond's advice to her but I found it really difficult to get invested in the Lektor. I also think the villain is one of the worst because he's so forgettable. It doesn't help that they went for the twist aspect with it though. When Goldfinger strolls out larger than life to his fanfare, or when Atlantis rises out of the sea, or when Silva strolls down towards a captive Bond with the rat speech, you know who the bad guys are. In FYEO it's just a bit underwhelming. "Oh, that guy from earlier? He's the villain? Okay". Doesn't help that he gets basically nothing to do outside of the coral reef scene.


    Maybe that is why I like the plot. I appreciate the espionage, an element I think has been neglected too much in the cinematic Bond. That is more important to me than wether the world's population is about to be exterminated or not. My favorite Bond plots are those were the stakes are more modest. Come to think of it practically all of Fleming's stories are quite down to earth, sprinkled with OTT elements and mystery. The reference to Fleming is part of what I appreciate in FYEO as well.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Repeating myself from other threads and other times, but if you cut the poolside fight the motorbike fight, the hockey fight and about half of the underwater footage, through in a Barry soundtrack and FYEO is a Top Ten Bond film.

    I concur!
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    jobo wrote: »
    For me the plot is one of the weakest aspects. I liked Melina's story and Bond's advice to her but I found it really difficult to get invested in the Lektor. I also think the villain is one of the worst because he's so forgettable. It doesn't help that they went for the twist aspect with it though. When Goldfinger strolls out larger than life to his fanfare, or when Atlantis rises out of the sea, or when Silva strolls down towards a captive Bond with the rat speech, you know who the bad guys are. In FYEO it's just a bit underwhelming. "Oh, that guy from earlier? He's the villain? Okay". Doesn't help that he gets basically nothing to do outside of the coral reef scene.


    Maybe that is why I like the plot. I appreciate the espionage, an element I think has been neglected too much in the cinematic Bond. That is more important to me than wether the world's population is about to be exterminated or not. My favorite Bond plots are those were the stakes are more modest. Come to think of it practically all of Fleming's stories are quite down to earth, sprinkled with OTT elements and mystery. The reference to Fleming is part of what I appreciate in FYEO as well.

    I'm not sure I agree on Fleming's plots being down to earth. They weren't all OTT sure but quite a few were (blowing up London, robbing Fort Knox, holding the west to ransom), and even the more grounded ones had colourful characters and concepts/scenarios that were memorable because of how bizarre they were.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Repeating myself from other threads and other times, but if you cut the poolside fight, the motorbike fight, the hockey fight and about half of the underwater footage, throw in a Barry soundtrack and FYEO is a Top Ten Bond film.

    Those would have been wise decisions, and even still FYEO is at #10 on my list currently. Doubt it will go lower than #12 anytime soon. It did come a long way in my ranking though since at first I had it in my bottom 7. Now I love it. For me in particular, LALD, TSWLM, and FYEO stand as Roger Moore’s greatest Bond films.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @ToTheRight
    I must admit, I really like the mansion fight, also because of the great score and some funny moments (rock salt). People always seem to want the gritty and brutal fights but I have no problems with the more lighthearted ones. I also like the Golden Gate fight. The problem with Moore is that he would never be convincing in any of his fight sequences, no matter how well they were choreographed.

    I also quite like the fight in the prison in TLD. I like the idea of Bond being disadvantaged by the handcuffs.



  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    FYEO is one of my favourite Bond films. It has some of the serious best actions scenes, a great and suspensefull plot and very nice locations. And I really enjoy much of Conti's score. The submarine track is one of my favourite tracks of the series.

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