Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited December 2018 Posts: 17,753
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, that's what it's called, @Torgeirtrap...!

    Good, at least I know some film terminology then, haha!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    Considering that in the recently revived “Rank the composers” thread Eric Serra is still ranked by many as one of the weaker composers I have to give a shoutout to him. Yet again.

    I feel like I’ve done this before, because he is in fact my second favourite composer after John Barry. Not only is he a favourite in the World of 007 but in general film music as well. His soundtracks for Le grand bleu, Nikita and Léon are nothing short of brilliant. Mixing synth and classical instruments provides these films with a very distinctive sound and atmosphere.

    Same goes for our beloved GoldenEye, which I consider to be the best Bond soundtrack not coming from John Barry. The industrial soundscapes mixed with piano, violins and choirs fit the post Soviet and Russian theme perfectly. Moreover, many people might have difficulties telling the Brosnan entries apart from one another, but GE always stands out and in my opinion that’s largely due to its unique music score as well.
  • Posts: 7,507
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Considering that in the recently revived “Rank the composers” thread Eric Serra is still ranked by many as one of the weaker composers I have to give a shoutout to him. Yet again.

    I feel like I’ve done this before, because he is in fact my second favourite composer after John Barry. Not only is he a favourite in the World of 007 but in general film music as well. His soundtracks for Le grand bleu, Nikita and Léon are nothing short of brilliant. Mixing synth and classical instruments provides these films with a very distinctive sound and atmosphere.

    Same goes for our beloved GoldenEye, which I consider to be the best Bond soundtrack not coming from John Barry. The industrial soundscapes mixed with piano, violins and choirs fit the post Soviet and Russian theme perfectly. Moreover, many people might have difficulties telling the Brosnan entries apart from one another, but GE always stands out and in my opinion that’s largely due to its unique music score as well.


    :O
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Considering that in the recently revived “Rank the composers” thread Eric Serra is still ranked by many as one of the weaker composers I have to give a shoutout to him. Yet again.

    I feel like I’ve done this before, because he is in fact my second favourite composer after John Barry. Not only is he a favourite in the World of 007 but in general film music as well. His soundtracks for Le grand bleu, Nikita and Léon are nothing short of brilliant. Mixing synth and classical instruments provides these films with a very distinctive sound and atmosphere.

    Same goes for our beloved GoldenEye, which I consider to be the best Bond soundtrack not coming from John Barry. The industrial soundscapes mixed with piano, violins and choirs fit the post Soviet and Russian theme perfectly. Moreover, many people might have difficulties telling the Brosnan entries apart from one another, but GE always stands out and in my opinion that’s largely due to its unique music score as well.

    I love the GE score as well. For me, it's:
    1. John Barry
    2. David Arnold
    3. Eric Serra/George Martin
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Considering that in the recently revived “Rank the composers” thread Eric Serra is still ranked by many as one of the weaker composers I have to give a shoutout to him. Yet again.

    I feel like I’ve done this before, because he is in fact my second favourite composer after John Barry. Not only is he a favourite in the World of 007 but in general film music as well. His soundtracks for Le grand bleu, Nikita and Léon are nothing short of brilliant. Mixing synth and classical instruments provides these films with a very distinctive sound and atmosphere.

    Same goes for our beloved GoldenEye, which I consider to be the best Bond soundtrack not coming from John Barry. The industrial soundscapes mixed with piano, violins and choirs fit the post Soviet and Russian theme perfectly. Moreover, many people might have difficulties telling the Brosnan entries apart from one another, but GE always stands out and in my opinion that’s largely due to its unique music score as well.

    Well that certainly is a controversial opinion. To me Serra's score is the one outstanding feature which makes GE a very dated film. Mind you, Armold's entries in the nineties didn't fare much better. But at least he made up by composing CR in a Bondian way.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    I don’t mind a film being dated. Any film, and definitely Bond films, are products of their time.
    Age is never an issue to me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don’t mind a film being dated. Any film, and definitely Bond films, are products of their time.
    Age is never an issue to me.

    I don't fully agree. Some films (Thunderball, OHMSS, etc) don't feel dated at all. They're set in their timeframe for sure, but they work perfectly in their storytelling. GE imo has a strong nineties feel, not as if it is set in the nineties, but that is made in the nineties. Just as much as Timothies films are very much eighties (tv) movies. It takes me awy from the story and makes it look like a relic.

    Another not-Bond example is Top Gun. It's very well made and to my mind a classic. It may have been made in the eighties but it doesn't feel like an eighties movie. Sure you can see it, I mean the romance is as shy and prudish as can be, but it works and I'm drawn into the film. Then it doesn't matter. The Herbie films, on the other hand, are definately relics and the stories hardly work anymore.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    To me, TND and TWINE look perfectly well for their age, as well, along with Arnold's soundtracks composed for them that are far superior to that of CR's and QoS's. Heck, I even love DAD's score because it's unapologetically Bondian.

    The issues with the story aside, had the CGI been used far less and more refined in the bits it was employed, DAD's naturally shot scenes also look timeless.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    What's everyone's ranking on screenwriters for Bond? I know that Richard Maibaum is probably at the top of everyone's list, but I'm still curious. Random surprise fact: In my ranking I'm making, Purvis and Wade are more in the middle.
  • edited December 2018 Posts: 7,507
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    What's everyone's ranking on screenwriters for Bond? I know that Richard Maibaum is probably at the top of everyone's list, but I'm still curious. Random surprise fact: In my ranking I'm making, Purvis and Wade are more in the middle.


    All I know is that Maibaum tops the list with Mankiewitz firmly at the bottom (and that with some margin...).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    What's everyone's ranking on screenwriters for Bond? I know that Richard Maibaum is probably at the top of everyone's list, but I'm still curious. Random surprise fact: In my ranking I'm making, Purvis and Wade are more in the middle.
    1. Richard Maibaum
    2. Christopher Wood
    3. Bruce Feirstein
    4. Tom Mankiewicz
    5. Purvis & Wade
    6. Paul Haggis
    7. Roald Dahl
    8. John Logan (the absolute worst)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    Interesting viewpoints. I find it funny that TM was a bit goofy when writing Bond, but a bit more serious about writing Superman. Must be the director's choice!
  • Posts: 15,114
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Interesting viewpoints. I find it funny that TM was a bit goofy when writing Bond, but a bit more serious about writing Superman. Must be the director's choice!

    His Batman script was godawful.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Paul Dehn and Berkely Mather also deserve mention--Dehn helped make Goldfinger sparkle and Mather performed under-the-radar work in scripting the first three Bond films. Excellent as Maibaum was, he never worked alone on the Bond films.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Didn’t he basically write OHMSS on his own? I know there was some dialogue polishing going on, but that’s pretty standard for these films.

    Aside from Simon Raven's added dialogue, Peter Hunt had an uncredited hand in the script.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The only EoN Bond movie that I find really unwatchable is Live and Let Die.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    The best part of LALD is the build-up to and the final fight. By a wide margin.

    It's ironic that TMWTGG was almost the last film in the series.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 7,507
    LALD is a pretty bizarre film. A goofy plot where not much really happens and very little action. Then suddenly an action scene that lasts for about half an hour with a strange comedic sub plot cutting right through the middle of it. Then Bond (almost without any resistence at all) just blows up the villain's base... and that's it.

    Yet despite it's obvious flaws, I somehow just like it... and I am not really able to explain why. ;))
  • Posts: 17,753
    jobo wrote: »
    LALD is a pretty bizarre film. A goofy plot where not much really happens and very little action. Then suddenly an action scene that lasts for about half an hour with a strange comedic sub plot cutting right through the middle of it. Then Bond (almost without any resistence at all) just blows up the villain's base... and that's it.

    Yet despite it's obvious flaws, I somehow just like it... and I am not really able to explain why. ;))

    It's a film starring Roger Moore. That's enough for me to have a good time! :-D
  • Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    LALD is a pretty bizarre film. A goofy plot where not much really happens and very little action. Then suddenly an action scene that lasts for about half an hour with a strange comedic sub plot cutting right through the middle of it. Then Bond (almost without any resistence at all) just blows up the villain's base... and that's it.

    Yet despite it's obvious flaws, I somehow just like it... and I am not really able to explain why. ;))

    It's a film starring Roger Moore. That's enough for me to have a good time! :-D


    I am also very fond of the score. It puts a unique stamp on the film. Definitely the best non Barry score in the series.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 17,753
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    LALD is a pretty bizarre film. A goofy plot where not much really happens and very little action. Then suddenly an action scene that lasts for about half an hour with a strange comedic sub plot cutting right through the middle of it. Then Bond (almost without any resistence at all) just blows up the villain's base... and that's it.

    Yet despite it's obvious flaws, I somehow just like it... and I am not really able to explain why. ;))

    It's a film starring Roger Moore. That's enough for me to have a good time! :-D


    I am also very fond of the score. It puts a unique stamp on the film. Definitely the best non Barry score in the series.

    No arguments there! George Martin did a fantastic job on it.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    LALD should have used more from the original book. Take a more riskier approach. No Sheriff JW Pepper.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2019 Posts: 15,423
    We got a LALD adaptation. It's called Licence To Kill. ;)

    Come to think of it, however, it's also a TMWTGG adaptation.
  • Posts: 385
    jobo wrote: »
    LALD is a pretty bizarre film. A goofy plot where not much really happens and very little action. Then suddenly an action scene that lasts for about half an hour with a strange comedic sub plot cutting right through the middle of it. Then Bond (almost without any resistence at all) just blows up the villain's base... and that's it.

    Yet despite it's obvious flaws, I somehow just like it... and I am not really able to explain why. ;))

    It's a film starring Roger Moore. That's enough for me to have a good time! :-D

    This is a point too many miss. Roger may not always hit all the highs, but he's a darn good time.
  • Posts: 2,917
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    LALD should have used more from the original book. Take a more riskier approach. No Sheriff JW Pepper.

    I thoroughly agree, but risk wasn't on the filmmaker's minds at the time, especially since the budget had decreased.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I never liked LALD until about a year ago when it jumped 15 places in to my #8 spot. This film was unappealing to me as a young kid because it’s so strange, but as a somewhat older kid, this is the most fun and entertaining thrill ride and the pure insanity of it is what makes it a great bond adventure. I don’t want every bond film to be like this, but to have one that’s just a little bit Cooky, is a treat
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    Revelator wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    LALD should have used more from the original book. Take a more riskier approach. No Sheriff JW Pepper.

    I thoroughly agree, but risk wasn't on the filmmaker's minds at the time, especially since the budget had decreased.

    I think for the book to be truthfully adapted a not so high budget would be needed.
  • Posts: 2,917
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think for the book to be truthfully adapted a not so high budget would be needed.

    For most of the film perhaps not, but filming a faithful version of the keelhauling, the explosion of Mr. Big's yacht, and the sharks eating everyone would have cost a lot more than the film's actual climax, which occurred in a bargain-basement supervillain's lair with two sharks.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Revelator wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think for the book to be truthfully adapted a not so high budget would be needed.

    For most of the film perhaps not, but filming a faithful version of the keelhauling, the explosion of Mr. Big's yacht, and the sharks eating everyone would have cost a lot more than the film's actual climax, which occurred in a bargain-basement supervillain's lair with two sharks.

    The 'climax' is really lame for a Bond film. It's all over far too quickly.

    Luckily there's that cool fight on the train to as an extra bonus.
  • Posts: 7,415
    Revelator wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think for the book to be truthfully adapted a not so high budget would be needed.

    For most of the film perhaps not, but filming a faithful version of the keelhauling, the explosion of Mr. Big's yacht, and the sharks eating everyone would have cost a lot more than the film's actual climax, which occurred in a bargain-basement supervillain's lair with two sharks.

    The 'climax' is really lame for a Bond film. It's all over far too quickly.

    Luckily there's that cool fight on the train to as an extra bonus.

    I miss that, the henchman turning up for a final reel showdown. They missed a trick with Mr. Hind in SP, imagine that great train scrap was at the end!
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